International Western Elites testing the idea of Conscription * Update Interestiog discussion and breakdown by Russel Brand

Forced military service would be better than paying tax payer dollars to mercenary organizations.

Am I the only one that is surprised and baffled that mercenary companies actually still exist? I don't understand why more people don't question this.
 
Forced military service would be better than paying tax payer dollars to mercenary organizations.

Am I the only one that is surprised and baffled that mercenary companies actually still exist? I don't understand why more people don't question this.
in a few decades they'll be doing most of fighting.
Wagner showed the future. why bother with unwilling conscription? nobody wants to join the military anymore.
 
I don't think enough American men are masculine enough anymore to be worth a shit in a military operation.
I partially agree while not completely. And I don't mean here just about military stuff.
I had to see americans () and some from them were ...better not to talk about.
While at least 2 civies surprisingly had excellent character and ... really had balls despite were civies. Deep respect to these lads.. ...

So I think it depends from person more than from origin or nationality or citizenship.
 
This is ridoculous.
West didn't had supplied Ukr with any heavy weapons in order to appease Hitler.
Ukraine actually during 22 years had demilitarized each year despite loud talks...
It is easy to see by googling up.

There had been 0 chances for Ukr to join EU or NATO during 2022-2026 th and everyone with a little bit of brains might see this if isn't an idiot.

Due to budget recommendations most likely Huelensky didn't had been re elected IF this war didn't had happened.....
How you imagine incerased tax and reduced budget spendings might had contributed to his re election?
If you support Russia, please stop hide. We here do have more respect to ppl posting in open text.....reality we anyway might see despite total denial from ppl like you.
Better you had been open and honest and had posted phrase from your heart that you support new world order and russian world. We anyway see this reality.
In general I don't read your posts, not because you're not decently informed or worthless (which can't be said for the american scum who fill up the war thread) but because trying to read your English gives me a headache (and boy do you type a lot of words to ache my head with), so I don't want to get into a long OT exchanges with you here.
but to sketch over a few points:

(i) Yes Ukraine had a shitty army in 2012, they were suffering big losses to the rebels initially. So, why didn't Putler roll up the Ukraine back then when it was easy, instead of waiting another decade, by which time Ukraine had the biggest army in Europe?
(I'm not sure what you mean by 'during 22 years had demilitarized each year' or 'it is easy to see by googling up' either, for instance in about 5 seconds I google up:
'By February 2018, the Ukrainian armed forces were larger and better equipped than ever before, numbering 200,000 active-service military personnel' from the most mainstream source possible).

(ii) indeed instead of invading or forcing a formal secession of the DNR/LNR, he signed the (garbage) Minsk peace treaties, which pushed DNR back into Ukraine, and in Russia there was a heavy crackdown on loud pro-war voices (bloggers were arrested, guys like Dugin were fired from their jobs, etc; also the rebel leaders in Donbass were assassinated, probably by the Ukes IMO but conspiretard theories that it was the FSB can't be ruled out either). Does that sound like the actions of a guy itching to invade Ukraine (and Europe) to you? Sounds like the actions of a guy with a weak hand wanting to avoid conflict to me. That's actually how Putin consistently behaves, and we see it again in the peace treaty offer that the USA sent Johnson out to block after the invasion in 2022 (supposedly it would have recognised Donbass as part of Ukraine and even paid a rent for Crimea!!).

- meanwhile Western leaders like Merkel and Sarkozy have now openly described the peace treaties as being 'to buy time to strengthen Ukraine' - a sham. And indeed as mentioned it went from losing to ragtag militias in 2012 to the biggest army in Europe by 2022. Sounds like a scheme to me!
US might not have sent heavy arms before 2022, but there was certainly a large number of 'advisors', spec ops guys, training operations, and of course unholy sums of corrupt cash flowing about the place... all the common patterns the US has pursued to foster conflict in Europe and Mid East since the 90s (colour revs etc) to spread its power are all over the place...

(iii) Ukraine is essentially defacto a part of NATO now, so whether it formally joins or not the next 5 years is beside the point, besides this (NATO expansion) and other simple talking points ('muh Nazis') are just one of many points that lead us to this place; for instance one thing that particularly triggered Putin (we know because he kept mentioning it) was Zelinsky saying in one breath he was going to get nukes, then another he was going to take Crimea back 'by all means'. Understandably, Putin took such words seriously. Remember when USA 'convinced' the world that it was OK to invade Iraq because they had WMD (except that was fake nonsense invented by US intel that literally nobody believes today)? well here we have this guy openly saying he is going to use WMD, and getting invaded (partly - there are many factors) as a result of that. Fair's fair...?
As for his reelection, who cares, Zelnsiky is only a puppet (the fighting started years before he even entered politics via kafkaesque means) and not even fully in control of the country, which was a semi-anarchy of armed gangs in many parts even before 2022. & the whole place was puppetised by the US in 2012, he's just the current 'face' of the regime there.

(iv) if there's one thing I would say is most important to Putin in this conflict, starting in 2012, is the naval base in Sevastapol, the most important naval base in Russia; everything his govt has ever done has always centered around not allowing it to fall into American hands at any cost; they've shown themselves willing to negotiate or 'let slide' everything else at one point or another, even if they don't like it. Again, not really the behavior of a crazed ego-fuelled man wanting to conquer swathes of land, but of someone with a (relatively) weak hand doing the bare minimum to keep his country's end up and vacillating about everything else (until US pressure forced him to play his cards, and even then play them in fairly weak way to start with).
 
I don't think enough American men are masculine enough anymore to be worth a shit in a military operati

In general I don't read your posts, not because you're not decently informed or worthless (which can't be said for the american scum who fill up the war thread) but because trying to read your English gives me a headache (and boy do you type a lot of words to ache my head with), so I don't want to get into a long OT exchanges with you here.
but to sketch over a few points:

(i) Yes Ukraine had a shitty army in 2012, they were suffering big losses to the rebels initially. So, why didn't Putler roll up the Ukraine back then when it was easy, instead of waiting another decade, by which time Ukraine had the biggest army in Europe?
(I'm not sure what you mean by 'during 22 years had demilitarized each year' or 'it is easy to see by googling up' either, for instance in about 5 seconds I google up:
'By February 2018, the Ukrainian armed forces were larger and better equipped than ever before, numbering 200,000 active-service military personnel' from the most mainstream source possible).

(ii) indeed instead of invading or forcing a formal secession of the DNR/LNR, he signed the (garbage) Minsk peace treaties, which pushed DNR back into Ukraine, and in Russia there was a heavy crackdown on loud pro-war voices (bloggers were arrested, guys like Dugin were fired from their jobs, etc; also the rebel leaders in Donbass were assassinated, probably by the Ukes IMO but conspiretard theories that it was the FSB can't be ruled out either). Does that sound like the actions of a guy itching to invade Ukraine (and Europe) to you? Sounds like the actions of a guy with a weak hand wanting to avoid conflict to me. That's actually how Putin consistently behaves, and we see it again in the peace treaty offer that the USA sent Johnson out to block after the invasion in 2022 (supposedly it would have recognised Donbass as part of Ukraine and even paid a rent for Crimea!!).

- meanwhile Western leaders like Merkel and Sarkozy have now openly described the peace treaties as being 'to buy time to strengthen Ukraine' - a sham. And indeed as mentioned it went from losing to ragtag militias in 2012 to the biggest army in Europe by 2022. Sounds like a scheme to me!
US might not have sent heavy arms before 2022, but there was certainly a large number of 'advisors', spec ops guys, training operations, and of course unholy sums of corrupt cash flowing about the place... all the common patterns the US has pursued to foster conflict in Europe and Mid East since the 90s (colour revs etc) to spread its power are all over the place...

(iii) Ukraine is essentially defacto a part of NATO now, so whether it formally joins or not the next 5 years is beside the point, besides this (NATO expansion) and other simple talking points ('muh Nazis') are just one of many points that lead us to this place; for instance one thing that particularly triggered Putin (we know because he kept mentioning it) was Zelinsky saying in one breath he was going to get nukes, then another he was going to take Crimea back 'by all means'. Understandably, Putin took such words seriously. Remember when USA 'convinced' the world that it was OK to invade Iraq because they had WMD (except that was fake nonsense invented by US intel that literally nobody believes today)? well here we have this guy openly saying he is going to use WMD, and getting invaded (partly - there are many factors) as a result of that. Fair's fair...?
As for his reelection, who cares, Zelnsiky is only a puppet (the fighting started years before he even entered politics via kafkaesque means) and not even fully in control of the country, which was a semi-anarchy of armed gangs in many parts even before 2022. & the whole place was puppetised by the US in 2012, he's just the current 'face' of the regime there.

(iv) if there's one thing I would say is most important to Putin in this conflict, starting in 2012, is the naval base in Sevastapol, the most important naval base in Russia; everything his govt has ever done has always centered around not allowing it to fall into American hands at any cost; they've shown themselves willing to negotiate or 'let slide' everything else at one point or another, even if they don't like it. Again, not really the behavior of a crazed ego-fuelled man wanting to conquer swathes of land, but of someone with a (relatively) weak hand doing the bare minimum to keep his country's end up and vacillating about everything else (until US pressure forced him to play his cards, and even then play them in fairly weak way to start with).
I don't care about my english. Soon software will easily replace typing skills.

Everyone is allowed to express dreams while did you even had bothered to read any bare thing about NATO or EU reccomendations for Ukr to become candidate? I'm not tourists servant required to type in proper english, get this please. Not all world should type texts in proper english and not all ppl posting here are immigrants in anglo saxonian countries where I really will agree that they should type proper texts in english.

Sevastopol had been rented to ruSSia again in 2010 th and Poroshenko didn't had AFAIK expressed wish to join EU or NATO.
Afaik he wanted to use both sides for trading and more like Trump was pro bussiness oriented and IMHO not interested in military in reality. OK, oligarch and populist IMHO who had lost vs another populist in Zelensky. While AFAIK he didn't had get windows or health therapy and still is walking freely and using his jeeps etc.
Maybe if Russia didn't had invaded Poroshenko might had get re elected again and now was president ....
 
What I mean regards to de Militarization?
In 1992 at least on paper Ukr had approx 4000 main battle tanks..
January 2022 th: approx 800 on paper ( LOL) in working contition.
Etc etc stuff. Easy for everyone not lazy to google up and dig in without direct pointing. Free choice...
 
NATO or EU expansion in Ukraine during next 2 years in 2022 th was technically and politcally impossible.
Financial requirements and AML measures....
Border disputes !!!
Political stability to accept country who had literally sold strategic bombers and cruise missiles to Russia in 1999 th. Ofc might have high chances to get next Yanukovich if populism campaign will work well. Besides this huge agricultural benefits etc stuff ......
 
While I agree that I should watch my english texts I'm typing and check stuff before posting. Sorry if some posts are not normal...
Btw partially input device is with AI assistance and this stuff is ......learning....
 
War is a racket and everyone has smartened up to the fact that you don't fight for your country or your interests in war, you fight for the interests of politicians and the wealthy. These governments would fall the day they tried to implement it.
 
I don't care about my english. Soon software will easily replace typing skills. Everyone is allowed to express dreams while did you even had bothered to read any bare thing about NATO or EU reccomendations for Ukr to become candidate? I'm not tourists servant required to type in proper english, get this please. Not all world should type texts in proper english and not all ppl posting here are immigrants in anglo saxonian countries where I really will agree that they should type proper texts in english.

Sevastopol had been rented to ruSSia again in 2010 th and Poroshenko didn't had AFAIK expressed wish to join EU or NATO.
Afaik he wanted to use both sides for trading and more like Trump was pro bussiness oriented and IMHO not interested in military in reality. OK, oligarch and populist IMHO who had lost vs another populist in Zelensky. While AFAIK he didn't had get windows or health therapy and still is walking freely and using his jeeps etc.
Maybe if Russia didn't had invaded Poroshenko might had get re elected again and now was president ....
It's not a matter of jingo, just a matter of lingo (I'd actually prefer it if English wasn't the global lingua franca and we were writing talking in latin or some shit- my own culture has basically been destroyed by american culture because of this) . If you want to be able to communicate your ideas clearly with other people you have to be able to write intelligibly in the language they understand. Get this please.

Yes Ukraine had a lot of tanks in 1992 (and a lot of factories, and a lot of...) because it inherited them from the USSR. You might as well argue 'Russia demilitarised over 22 years' because the USSR ran a bigger military, too. (1992 is 32 years ago by the way, not 22. Common error ;) )
Ukraine didn't build/maintain any significant portion of its army or industrial base it inherited from the USSR because it is an ultra corrupt failed state (they have not even a been able to conduct a census since 2001!!!!!). Baltics joined EU and rebuilt, Russia got a strongman and rebuilt (after almost collapsing in the 90s), Belarus got a commie strongman early and never went down as hard, Ukraine got nothing, just squabbling oligarchs and rival powers (USA vs Russia) picking over the mess and spiralled down into became the absolute poorest country in Europe (even below fake countries like Kosovo). 'Magically' it got the money to build up the biggest army in Europe after 2012 though... 🤔
 
It's not a matter of jingo, just a matter of lingo (I'd actually prefer it if English wasn't the global lingua franca and we were writing talking in latin or some shit- my own culture has basically been destroyed by american culture because of this) . If you want to be able to communicate your ideas clearly with other people you have to be able to write intelligibly in the language they understand. Get this please.

Yes Ukraine had a lot of tanks in 1992 (and a lot of factories, and a lot of...) because it inherited them from the USSR. You might as well argue 'Russia demilitarised over 22 years' because the USSR ran a bigger military, too. (1992 is 32 years ago by the way, not 22. Common error ;) )
Ukraine didn't build/maintain any significant portion of its army or industrial base it inherited from the USSR because it is an ultra corrupt failed state (they have not even a been able to conduct a census since 2001!!!!!). Baltics joined EU and rebuilt, Russia got a strongman and rebuilt (after almost collapsing in the 90s), Belarus got a commie strongman early and never went down as hard, Ukraine got nothing, just squabbling oligarchs and rival powers (USA vs Russia) picking over the mess and spiralled down into became the absolute poorest country in Europe (even below fake countries like Kosovo). 'Magically' it got the money to build up the biggest army in Europe after 2012 though... 🤔
I don't agree that Russia had de Militarized.
Even the same Mig -29.
Russia had in 2022 th a lot of upgraded in 2000 ies Mig - 29. Also upgraded later.
Azerbaijan: Su-25 with laser tagging pods while Ukr AFAIK ...stuff from USSR era and loud talks.
 
I might offer for Donald real working deal.
Because in modern days it is easy to sell properties, countries and talks, however it isn't easy to sell humans....
Maybe Donald might grant U.S citizenship to all ukrainians and they will relocate to U.S and as citizens and then Ukraine might had been sold as land.

And don't worry about identity. Hitler and Stalin were not able even to deal with gypsies despite they didn't had country. Not alone today someone will sell ppl. Country ofc might be sold but this is entity to serve for ....elite, nothing else.
 
in a few decades they'll be doing most of fighting.
Wagner showed the future. why bother with unwilling conscription? nobody wants to join the military anymore.

I actually disagree a little, what i think will happen is "foreign legion" concept becoming more popular

Merc companies are too expensive and pay ridiculous money , wagner paid 5x average monthly pay in russia.Now if we go to usa side it would be like 150k to 200k a year or 15k a month where i live which is way too much for ordinary grunt stuff

Easier to recruit poor third worlder into some official militarys "foreign legion" pay him shit money, put on flak jacket and send him forward while promising him citizenship or some other benefit

(FFL is full of third worlders who get paid 1200 euros a month which is basically nothing in france in my understanding)
 
Not between world powers - like I said.
These were real proxy wars and nor NK nor North Vietnam needed to run around world in order to beg for weapons.
You anyway will vote for Donald again in order to make america great again ...in dreams. There's nothing worth to debate here IMHO.
 
There will be a WW3 around 2028. The idea is to kill as many people as possible to fix the overpopulation problem and install a globlal government.
<EdgyBrah>
 
In general I don't read your posts, not because you're not decently informed or worthless (which can't be said for the american scum who fill up the war thread) but because trying to read your English gives me a headache (and boy do you type a lot of words to ache my head with), so I don't want to get into a long OT exchanges with you here.
but to sketch over a few points:

(i) Yes Ukraine had a shitty army in 2012, they were suffering big losses to the rebels initially. So, why didn't Putler roll up the Ukraine back then when it was easy, instead of waiting another decade, by which time Ukraine had the biggest army in Europe?
(I'm not sure what you mean by 'during 22 years had demilitarized each year' or 'it is easy to see by googling up' either, for instance in about 5 seconds I google up:
'By February 2018, the Ukrainian armed forces were larger and better equipped than ever before, numbering 200,000 active-service military personnel' from the most mainstream source possible).

(ii) indeed instead of invading or forcing a formal secession of the DNR/LNR, he signed the (garbage) Minsk peace treaties, which pushed DNR back into Ukraine, and in Russia there was a heavy crackdown on loud pro-war voices (bloggers were arrested, guys like Dugin were fired from their jobs, etc; also the rebel leaders in Donbass were assassinated, probably by the Ukes IMO but conspiretard theories that it was the FSB can't be ruled out either). Does that sound like the actions of a guy itching to invade Ukraine (and Europe) to you? Sounds like the actions of a guy with a weak hand wanting to avoid conflict to me. That's actually how Putin consistently behaves, and we see it again in the peace treaty offer that the USA sent Johnson out to block after the invasion in 2022 (supposedly it would have recognised Donbass as part of Ukraine and even paid a rent for Crimea!!).

- meanwhile Western leaders like Merkel and Sarkozy have now openly described the peace treaties as being 'to buy time to strengthen Ukraine' - a sham. And indeed as mentioned it went from losing to ragtag militias in 2012 to the biggest army in Europe by 2022. Sounds like a scheme to me!
US might not have sent heavy arms before 2022, but there was certainly a large number of 'advisors', spec ops guys, training operations, and of course unholy sums of corrupt cash flowing about the place... all the common patterns the US has pursued to foster conflict in Europe and Mid East since the 90s (colour revs etc) to spread its power are all over the place...

(iii) Ukraine is essentially defacto a part of NATO now, so whether it formally joins or not the next 5 years is beside the point, besides this (NATO expansion) and other simple talking points ('muh Nazis') are just one of many points that lead us to this place; for instance one thing that particularly triggered Putin (we know because he kept mentioning it) was Zelinsky saying in one breath he was going to get nukes, then another he was going to take Crimea back 'by all means'. Understandably, Putin took such words seriously. Remember when USA 'convinced' the world that it was OK to invade Iraq because they had WMD (except that was fake nonsense invented by US intel that literally nobody believes today)? well here we have this guy openly saying he is going to use WMD, and getting invaded (partly - there are many factors) as a result of that. Fair's fair...?
As for his reelection, who cares, Zelnsiky is only a puppet (the fighting started years before he even entered politics via kafkaesque means) and not even fully in control of the country, which was a semi-anarchy of armed gangs in many parts even before 2022. & the whole place was puppetised by the US in 2012, he's just the current 'face' of the regime there.

(iv) if there's one thing I would say is most important to Putin in this conflict, starting in 2012, is the naval base in Sevastapol, the most important naval base in Russia; everything his govt has ever done has always centered around not allowing it to fall into American hands at any cost; they've shown themselves willing to negotiate or 'let slide' everything else at one point or another, even if they don't like it. Again, not really the behavior of a crazed ego-fuelled man wanting to conquer swathes of land, but of someone with a (relatively) weak hand doing the bare minimum to keep his country's end up and vacillating about everything else (until US pressure forced him to play his cards, and even then play them in fairly weak way to start with).
Putin is Xi vassal and Russia too. This reality russians will deny till end of universe.
 
I always will respect guys who in open text will post their true target simple and plain instead to use propagandists tricks and causal excuses etc manipulation.
OK, you want new world order and Kremlin to be world hegemon and there isn't worth to hide reality and there nothing will be wrong: it is business and nothing personal.
While please don't think that I will buy casual excuses and propaganda bullshit.
Simple neo imperialistic war, while a lot of propagandists needs to get income therefore this bullshit.
Complicated things are simple: XV century level war here and xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx propagandists.
 
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