War Room Lounge v68: The insidious rumour of Belgium

[Darkballs]

Well it's said that 9/11 was blowback for out actions involving Saudi Arabia, as well as our economic stranglehold on the ME.

So our actions overseas spawned the attack, which I think we can all agree upon, honestly I'm worried the next big attack will come from terrorists from Yemen. Again people will act like we did nothing to cause the domino effect.

Sure blowback is an unexpected consequence. But is someone landing a punch every now and then when you've curbstomped them for years honestly that unexpected.

Sorry mate, but while our actions were responsible for having OBL ultimately target the US, it wasn't due to curbstomping or oppressing the muslim world.

Both liberals and conservatives often mischaracterize bin laden for who he was and what his motivations truly were. As other posters have mentioned, this is odd, considering the guy was pretty explicit in his countless rants against the US in the decade leading up to 9-11.

The best way to understand bin laden, is to realize that he was a jihadi through and through. This was an educated guy who gave up millions and a life of luxury to go fight in Afghanistan. And while it's often incorrectly said that we armed him (we didn't. he was a relatively small player in the overall war against the soviets and he got there by using his personal funds to buy himself a foothold), there is no doubt he actually got in the dirt and fought like anyone else.

But his objections to the west weren't initially that we were brutalizing muslims with our foreign policy. He tacked that shit on later, around the time he started adopting the palestinian cause, as he tried to branch out to a larger audience. Bin laden saw himself as a modern day Saladin. He craved the media. A part of him wanted that stardom. Much of the shit we found in the aftermath of the raid that killed him were hours and hours of recordings (audio and video) of rehearsals of his media rants. The guy wanted to be noticed and revered.

So when Sadam invade Kuwait, bin laden thinks he has a chance to rise to fame. He petitions the House of Saud to have them use his jihadi army against the Iraqi's. They turned him down, instead opting to invite the US military to protect their oil supply. And by protect it, I mean had us blow the Iraqi army to shit in the timeframe of an extended weekend. OBL was enraged. Not only was his chance at glory denied, but it was stolen by infidels. Infidels that had been invited into the holiest nation in islam. No one, not even OBL could deny that the US thrashing of Sadam was a blessing for the average muslim civilian in the region. There was no US attrocity that he raged against. His grievance was a purely theocratic one.

Same thing with Somalia. No one, not even the Somali warlords could deny that the US was there to provide desperately needed civilian aid to a majority muslim populace. Yet bin laden would praise the attacks on US troops. Again, not because of any US atrocity, but simply because we were infidels who had dared set foot on muslim land.

So I get your point that it wasn't the US existing in a vacuum before OBL attacked us. Clearly we did SOMETHING. But that distinction needs to be made. This wasn't an attack brought on by some genuine grievance bin laden held over a particular US war crime or military operation. This was a grievance born by a jihadi scum's adherence to a radical islamic ideology.

Side note: I was literally the first US service member to step foot inside Sadam's palace in Tikrit. We literally had the looters scattering as our force showed up (I was part of a six-man radio recon team that was attached to Task Force Tarawa, which was a quickly thrown together right after 1stMarDiv secured Baghdad. The road north was open, so they wanted us to hit Sadams hometown quick before the last elements of the republican guard could get across the Tigris river). So the palace had been picked clean and everything of value carted off. Initially, some fucking LtCol had barred anyone from going inside due to concerns of it being booby-trapped, which was a pretty baseless assumption. Regardless, me and my team had been non-stop fighting for about 3 months at this point, and we figured, fuck him. We never got to see anything cool like that, so we just walked around and found an unsecured entrance and went in. The only room that hadn't been looted was a closet-sized projection room in the back of his personal movie theater. Besides furniture, the only items we the movie reels, which were labeled (I don't know why) in english. Every single movie, of which there were about 100, were one of two categories: 1) US war films; particularly ones where the US military is portrayed in a bad light or getting it's ass kicked, such as Platoon, Black Hack Down, Saving Private Ryan, and Apocalypse Now, I all remember being present; and 2) Interracial porn films. Always white guys nailing black girls. The ratio was probably 70/30 porn to war films. I couldn't help but imagine Sadam putting in some porn film on an old projector and jerking it in the middle of his full-sized movie theater in his giant palace.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Side note: I was literally the first US service member to step foot inside Sadam's palace in Tikrit.

First to go, last to know?

Always white guys nailing black girls. The ratio was probably 70/30 porn to war films.

 

[Fawlty]

Sorry mate, but while our actions were responsible for having OBL ultimately target the US, it wasn't due to curbstomping or oppressing the muslim world.

Both liberals and conservatives often mischaracterize bin laden for who he was and what his motivations truly were. As other posters have mentioned, this is odd, considering the guy was pretty explicit in his countless rants against the US in the decade leading up to 9-11.

The best way to understand bin laden, is to realize that he was a jihadi through and through. This was an educated guy who gave up millions and a life of luxury to go fight in Afghanistan. And while it's often incorrectly said that we armed him (we didn't. he was a relatively small player in the overall war against the soviets and he got there by using his personal funds to buy himself a foothold), there is no doubt he actually got in the dirt and fought like anyone else.

But his objections to the west weren't initially that we were brutalizing muslims with our foreign policy. He tacked that shit on later, around the time he started adopting the palestinian cause, as he tried to branch out to a larger audience. Bin laden saw himself as a modern day Saladin. He craved the media. A part of him wanted that stardom. Much of the shit we found in the aftermath of the raid that killed him were hours and hours of recordings (audio and video) of rehearsals of his media rants. The guy wanted to be noticed and revered.

So when Sadam invade Kuwait, bin laden thinks he has a chance to rise to fame. He petitions the House of Saud to have them use his jihadi army against the Iraqi's. They turned him down, instead opting to invite the US military to protect their oil supply. And by protect it, I mean had us blow the Iraqi army to shit in the timeframe of an extended weekend. OBL was enraged. Not only was his chance at glory denied, but it was stolen by infidels. Infidels that had been invited into the holiest nation in islam. No one, not even OBL could deny that the US thrashing of Sadam was a blessing for the average muslim civilian in the region. There was no US attrocity that he raged against. His grievance was a purely theocratic one.

Same thing with Somalia. No one, not even the Somali warlords could deny that the US was there to provide desperately needed civilian aid to a majority muslim populace. Yet bin laden would praise the attacks on US troops. Again, not because of any US atrocity, but simply because we were infidels who had dared set foot on muslim land.

So I get your point that it wasn't the US existing in a vacuum before OBL attacked us. Clearly we did SOMETHING. But that distinction needs to be made. This wasn't an attack brought on by some genuine grievance bin laden held over a particular US war crime or military operation. This was a grievance born by a jihadi scum's adherence to a radical islamic ideology.

Side note: I was literally the first US service member to step foot inside Sadam's palace in Tikrit. We literally had the looters scattering as our force showed up (I was part of a six-man radio recon team that was attached to Task Force Tarawa, which was a quickly thrown together right after 1stMarDiv secured Baghdad. The road north was open, so they wanted us to hit Sadams hometown quick before the last elements of the republican guard could get across the Tigris river). So the palace had been picked clean and everything of value carted off. Initially, some fucking LtCol had barred anyone from going inside due to concerns of it being booby-trapped, which was a pretty baseless assumption. Regardless, me and my team had been non-stop fighting for about 3 months at this point, and we figured, fuck him. We never got to see anything cool like that, so we just walked around and found an unsecured entrance and went in. The only room that hadn't been looted was a closet-sized projection room in the back of his personal movie theater. Besides furniture, the only items we the movie reels, which were labeled (I don't know why) in english. Every single movie, of which there were about 100, were one of two categories: 1) US war films; particularly ones where the US military is portrayed in a bad light or getting it's ass kicked, such as Platoon, Black Hack Down, Saving Private Ryan, and Apocalypse Now, I all remember being present; and 2) Interracial porn films. Always white guys nailing black girls. The ratio was probably 70/30 porn to war films. I couldn't help but imagine Sadam putting in some porn film on an old projector and jerking it in the middle of his full-sized movie theater in his giant palace.

Holy fuck, hope you were keeping a side-eye open for tigers and shit.

 

[Gutter Chris]

First to go, last to know?

There should be more porn with white dudes nailin black girls ya know

 

[Limbo Pete]

Sorry mate, but while our actions were responsible for having OBL ultimately target the US, it wasn't due to curbstomping or oppressing the muslim world.

Both liberals and conservatives often mischaracterize bin laden for who he was and what his motivations truly were. As other posters have mentioned, this is odd, considering the guy was pretty explicit in his countless rants against the US in the decade leading up to 9-11.

The best way to understand bin laden, is to realize that he was a jihadi through and through. This was an educated guy who gave up millions and a life of luxury to go fight in Afghanistan. And while it's often incorrectly said that we armed him (we didn't. he was a relatively small player in the overall war against the soviets and he got there by using his personal funds to buy himself a foothold), there is no doubt he actually got in the dirt and fought like anyone else.

But his objections to the west weren't initially that we were brutalizing muslims with our foreign policy. He tacked that shit on later, around the time he started adopting the palestinian cause, as he tried to branch out to a larger audience. Bin laden saw himself as a modern day Saladin. He craved the media. A part of him wanted that stardom. Much of the shit we found in the aftermath of the raid that killed him were hours and hours of recordings (audio and video) of rehearsals of his media rants. The guy wanted to be noticed and revered.

So when Sadam invade Kuwait, bin laden thinks he has a chance to rise to fame. He petitions the House of Saud to have them use his jihadi army against the Iraqi's. They turned him down, instead opting to invite the US military to protect their oil supply. And by protect it, I mean had us blow the Iraqi army to shit in the timeframe of an extended weekend. OBL was enraged. Not only was his chance at glory denied, but it was stolen by infidels. Infidels that had been invited into the holiest nation in islam. No one, not even OBL could deny that the US thrashing of Sadam was a blessing for the average muslim civilian in the region. There was no US attrocity that he raged against. His grievance was a purely theocratic one.

Same thing with Somalia. No one, not even the Somali warlords could deny that the US was there to provide desperately needed civilian aid to a majority muslim populace. Yet bin laden would praise the attacks on US troops. Again, not because of any US atrocity, but simply because we were infidels who had dared set foot on muslim land.

So I get your point that it wasn't the US existing in a vacuum before OBL attacked us. Clearly we did SOMETHING. But that distinction needs to be made. This wasn't an attack brought on by some genuine grievance bin laden held over a particular US war crime or military operation. This was a grievance born by a jihadi scum's adherence to a radical islamic ideology.

Side note: I was literally the first US service member to step foot inside Sadam's palace in Tikrit. We literally had the looters scattering as our force showed up (I was part of a six-man radio recon team that was attached to Task Force Tarawa, which was a quickly thrown together right after 1stMarDiv secured Baghdad. The road north was open, so they wanted us to hit Sadams hometown quick before the last elements of the republican guard could get across the Tigris river). So the palace had been picked clean and everything of value carted off. Initially, some fucking LtCol had barred anyone from going inside due to concerns of it being booby-trapped, which was a pretty baseless assumption. Regardless, me and my team had been non-stop fighting for about 3 months at this point, and we figured, fuck him. We never got to see anything cool like that, so we just walked around and found an unsecured entrance and went in. The only room that hadn't been looted was a closet-sized projection room in the back of his personal movie theater. Besides furniture, the only items we the movie reels, which were labeled (I don't know why) in english. Every single movie, of which there were about 100, were one of two categories: 1) US war films; particularly ones where the US military is portrayed in a bad light or getting it's ass kicked, such as Platoon, Black Hack Down, Saving Private Ryan, and Apocalypse Now, I all remember being present; and 2) Interracial porn films. Always white guys nailing black girls. The ratio was probably 70/30 porn to war films. I couldn't help but imagine Sadam putting in some porn film on an old projector and jerking it in the middle of his full-sized movie theater in his giant palace.

Holy smokes

 

[spin]

And yet, we don't say "mate" here in the US.

So my question is, who do you really work for mr. Balls?

 

[Darkballs]

Holy fuck, hope you were keeping a side-eye open for tigers and shit.

Creepiest thing I saw was where I tried to rack out. I had been sleeping in the dirt and out in the open for several months, and was as one would expect, quite dirty. We ended up staying camped around the Palace in Tikrit for maybe 5 days or so. A blessing to have pretty much a break. Better yet, I had a roof over my head. Now not the palace. They locked down the main building/mansion for whatever reason. But the palace itself was on a bluff overlooking the Tigris. A bit off to the side was a small almost goat trail that led to a concrete building of just two 20x20 rooms. No furniture or nothing. But the place had probably been used for torture or something. There were still metal shackles on the walls and dark brownish red stains that had to been long-dried blood. A creepy fucking place to be sure, but we slept like babies in there with a roof over our heads and out of the elements. I remember during the day we even found some portable projector and watched movies on the wall of said torture chamber/rape room. I distinctly remember watching Memento for the first time there some night.

I actually made the front page of a major US newspaper for that one. I can't really post a link without doxing myself, so I hope you guys understand me not backing it up unless you want a PM. It was just a picture of me and some other Marine in front of said palace (actually, it was the guest room/building) looking all cool and big-dicked. I took tons of pictures with disposable cameras, but some Iraqi shit snatched that (along with a lot of other shit) as we passed through Safwan as we drove out of Iraq back into Kuwait. Only one camera, that I think I had on my person, made it home. So I have pictures I took from the initial invasion up until about Nasiriyah, but that's about it.

 

[spin]

kind of a low blow putting info on a man's porn collection out on the street like that.




if that wasn't in the geneva conventions, it should have been.

 

[Lord Coke]

https://www.foxnews.com/food-drink/...zuaxLgAuzJDe6urpYSAOZKC9McEZQjNbxxKATG-EXZjwo

Police apprehend penguins who keep sneaking into sushi restaurant

There’s some fishy thievery happening at an Australian sushi truck.

Sushi lovers know that cravings for the fishy dish are nearly impossible to beat, making it all the more understandable that a pair of penguins in New Zealand have been officially apprehended by authorities for repeatedly sneaking around the grounds of a sushi truck.

On Monday evening, Wellington District Police (WDP) announced that two “waddling vagrants” were temporarily detained after making themselves at home beneath a local sushi truck — their second act of trespassing on the premises that day, The Guardianreports.

A pair of "vagrant" blue penguins have been forcibly removed after waddling into a New Zealand sushi shop and refusing to leave. (Shawnee Kim via AP)

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A staffer first noticed something was amiss after hearing a “cooing, humming” sound coming from near the warm grills beneath the mobile food truck.

Reps for the WDP wrote online that Constable John Zhu quickly responded to the scene “after sensing something fishy.”

The wanderers were soon identified as little blue penguins, as per HuffPost, and released back into the wild of Wellington Harbor. Police worked with the Department of Conservation and the Wellington Zoo to send the adventurous birds back to sea.

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Police worked with the Department of Conservation and the Wellington Zoo to send the adventurous birds back to sea. (TVNZ via AP)

“It’s pretty insane the idea that some penguins are camping out under your shop,” sushi shop worker Wini Morris told Radio NZ of the wild tale. “But it’s adorable I think - they’re probably terrified but it’s adorable.”

Little blue penguins typically start looking for nesting spots in July and start laying eggs in August.

 

[Darkballs]

kind of a low blow putting info on a man's porn collection out on the street like that.




if that wasn't in the geneva conventions, it should have been.

Well to be fair, he's been dead quite a bit. But you're right. Even amongst our nations greatest enemies, a man should be able to jerk it however he pleases amongst his 1 billion square foot marble mansion.

On that note, the greatest currency you can have in the Gulf states is porn. They pulled me out of Christmas leave (dicks) in order to be part of the early workup in Kuwait. So I left in late december 2002 and stayed in Kuwait until whenever Dday was (March 17th?). We were like 15 miles from the border with Iraq at Camp Commando or Camp Grisly, way out in the middle of fucking nowhere. Haliburton and the massive mess tents they would bring in through contractors weren't there until months later. So it was pretty much MRE's 5 days a week and then C-rations for maybe two. Anyway these Kuwaiti guys would get to come on base to do whatever business they were invited there for. Since us early grunts were pretty much all the security this place had at the time, I as a Sergeant beholden to no-one (my unit had yet to deploy en-masse, and I was a master at falling under no one's command in such circumstances; the ultimate 'does anyone know who that fucking guy is?' sneaky cunt), I could pretty much go and interact with whomever I pleased. This meant I left the confines of the "base" to set up roadblocks and security posts, directing the positions of machine gun nests and the like, to prevent possible assaults (most likely an attempted car bombing) on our position. It didn't take long interacting with locals for pretty much every adult male approaching me, like a guilty junky about to ask if I was holding, if I had any porn.
I didn't. But when I heard how much these dudes were offering, I made sure I called back home right away and had my friends buy up boxes and boxes worth of porn mags off the shelves at every local Circle K in the greater New Orleans area and ship them to me ASAP. I remember I got some guy (and the average Kuwaiti is rich as fuck off of government oil subsidies) to deliver something like 50 large pizzas from Pizza Hut an hour away in exchange for one issue of Hustler. Got another farmer to kill two of his goats and whip them up into an actually really good fucking meal for a few skin mags as well.

I swear. Within two weeks of getting my care packages from Louisiana, I was the porn godfather of Kuwait. I had referrals coming in. Creepiest of all, was these guys would come back a day or two after getting a mag off me (and remember, I'm in the middle of fucking nowhere in the desert at least an hour drive from any sort of town), and want to talk about it. These guys were constantly asking me if all American girls were like this. They seemed utterly convinced that American slutdom was like no other. I don't think they even believed me when I explained that "No, the average american girl isn't sticking a bowling pin up her ass in front of a photographer just to get published." It really was just a terribly sexually repressed culture. I had 30-60 year old guys asking me basic sex ed questions because they had never in their lives had anybody to talk to about this.

 

[spin]

if you ever think your involvement in the war had no meaning, just remember,

somewhere out there, you got a kuwaiti man to ask his wife to try putting a bowling pin up her ass, and she did.

 

[Limbo Pete]

Well to be fair, he's been dead quite a bit. But you're right. Even amongst our nations greatest enemies, a man should be able to jerk it however he pleases amongst his 1 billions square foot marble mansion.

On that note, the greatest currency you can have in the Gulf states is porn. They pulled me out of Christmas leave (dicks) in order to be part of the early workup in Kuwait. So I left in late december 2002 and stayed in Kuwait until whenever Dday was (March 17th?). We were like 15 miles from the border with Iraq at Camp Commando or Camp Grisly, way out in the middle of fucking nowhere. Haliburton and the massive mess tents they would bring in through contractors weren't there until months later. So it was pretty much MRE's 5 days a week and then C-rations for maybe two. Anyway these Kuwaiti guys would get to come on base to do whatever business they were invited there for. Since us early grunts were pretty much all the security this place had at the time, I as a Sergeant beholden to no-one (my unit had yet to deploy en-masse, and I was a master at falling under no one's command in such circumstances; the ultimate 'does anyone know who that fucking guy is?' sneaky cunt), I could pretty much go and interact with whomever I pleased. This meant I left the confines of the "base" to set up roadblocks and security posts, directing the positions of machine gun nests and the like, to prevent possible assaults (most likely an attempted car bombing) on our position. It didn't take long interacting with locals for pretty much every adult male approaching me, like a guilty junky about to ask if I was holding, if I had any porn.
I didn't. But when I heard how much these dudes were offering, I made sure I called back home right away and had my friends buy up boxes and boxes worth of porn mags off the shelves at every local Circle K in the greater New Orleans area and ship them to me ASAP. I remember I got some guy (and the average Kuwaiti is rich as fuck off of government oil subsidies) to deliver something like 50 large pizzas from Pizza Hut an hour away in exchange for one issue of Hustler. Got another farmer to kill two of his goats and whip them up into an actually really good fucking meal for a few skin mags as well.

I swear. Within two weeks of getting my care packages from Louisiana, I was the porn godfather of Kuwait. I had referrals coming in. Creepiest of all, was these guys would come back a day or two after getting a mag off me (and remember, I'm in the middle of fucking nowhere in the desert at least an hour from any sort of town), and want to talk about it. These guys were constantly asking me if all American girls were like this. They seemed utterly convinced that American slutdom was like no other. I don't think they even believed me when I explained that "No, the average american girl isn't sticking a bowling pin up her ass in front of a photographer just to get published." It really was just a terribly sexually repressed culture. I had 30-60 year old guys asking me basic sex ed questions because they had never in their lives had anybody to talk to about this.

if you ever think you're involvement in the war had no meaning, just remember,

somewhere out there, you got a kuwaiti man to ask his wife to try putting a bowling pin up her ass, and she did.

_D_E_A_D_

 

[waiguoren]

I agree that it's theoretically possible to identify beliefs that most people would agree with but that are not easily demonstrated. However, I'd still advise some humility when you're making an assertion that you can't show to be true, and "obvious" should be confined to views that are clearly true and easily demonstrable rather than ones that you can't defend rationally.

Thanks for you advice, but it's poor advice. People, including you, do not and should not operate this way. This reminds me of the time Mr. Fa @Fawlty was confident that Woodley would beat Usman and even tried to criticize the bettors who made the line for "underpricing" Woodley. Anyone of average perceptive ability who had actually followed the careers of both men would be at the least very unsure of Woodley's ability to win the fight. People who hadn't paid attention to Usman's incredible accomplishments to that point were surprised.

The analogy here is with the people not actually paying attention to Biden's poor performance on the campaign trail but in love with the idea of Biden. I am confident that if/when Biden v Trump appear together on the debate stage, it's going to be similar to when Mr. Fa watched Usman dominate Woodley's for five rounds---they will be surprised that Biden (Woodley) is lacking many of the basic skills necessary to perform the job. I also claim the opposite would happen if Buttigieg and Trump were on that stage together. Articulateness, composure, effective argumentation....these are qualities that the average human brain is finely tuned to but no computer model can currently measure.

It's part of a more general phenomenon that I've noticed in human beings of becoming infatuated with the idea of a person rather than the actual person. I think it goes even more general into infatuation with ideas/companies/products/people/locations/more.

This also connects to a ridiculous claim you have made repeatedly (apparently parroting Paul "Bitcoin is evil" Krugman and Nate "Donald Trump isn't a real candidate" Silver, as you are prone to do): "no one knows anything about electability". A donkey (@Limbo Pete) is not electable. If we restrict ourselves to humans, a person with Down's Syndrome is not electable. We do not need a regression analysis or a CNN "expert panel" to figure this out. We humans (@senri) have the ability to discern qualities of people that no model can predict. The irony here is that you, Mr Jack, actually predicted that Joseph Biden would fall off from the top position....but how could you know such as thing if "electability" is a mirage? You are engaging in doublethink here, so make up your mind. Is electability discernible or not?

This is a great illustration of the difference between schooling and education. You are well-schooled when it comes to memorizing and parroting the "wisdom" of your tribal elders (e.g., Silver, Krugman, Chait), but you are too lazy to have actually dug into the theory/data behind their pronouncements. To do so, I fear, would involve learning more math than you are comfortable with.

_D_E_A_D_

Don't die, Mr. Limb. We need you around for....experiments....

 

[Lead]

Catching it right now. It's good. I think I would like it more if I didn't listen to his podcast so much a year ago. It starts out a bit shaky and had me a bit worried.

Making Bourbon Mule Jerked Shrimp and Tilapia Wraps with Mango Salsa for dinner.


Shits going to be baller.

I could see that. I think it actually improved it for me. For example, his wife saying “where is this coming from” is ten times funnier considering I’ve heard her say it many times on that podcast.

 

[waiguoren]

@Limbo Pete

Elizabeth Warren a Direct Descendant of Militia ‘Indian Fighter’ Who Fought Seminole Tribe


Sen. Elizabeth Warren’s (D-MA) great-great-great grandfather Jonathan Crawford served in Major William Lauderdale’s Battalion of Tennessee Volunteer Militia from November 1837 to May 1838, a six month time period during which it fought two battles in Florida against the Seminoles. Today, there are two federally recognized Native American Seminole tribes, the Seminole Tribe of Florida, which has 4,000 enrolled members, and the Seminole Nation of Oklahoma, which has more than 18,000 enrolled members.

Lauderdale’s battalion fought against the Seminoles at the Battle of Loxahatchie River, in present day Jupiter, Florida, on January 24, 1838. Then on March 22, 1838 they fought against the Seminoles again at the Battle of Pine Island, in present day Fort Lauderdale.

A native of Virginia, Lauderdale moved to Tennessee, where he was known as the latest in a long line of Indian fighters, as the Daily Press reported in 1992:

Like other Virginians of his day, Lauderdale developed into an Indian fighter. In 1803 he marched as a Tennessee volunteer to the Louisiana Territory to fight for the United States against the Spanish and the Indians. In the War of 1812 he served under Gen. Jackson and fought against the Indian allies of the British in what are now Alabama, Mississippi and Louisiana. . .

William Lauderdale became Gen. Jackson’s trusted understudy in the War of 1812. When the Creek Indians rose up to massacre white settlers in Alabama in 1813 and President James Madison ordered Jackson to defend the area, Capt. Lauderdale and his Tennessee Vols helped win the battle of Talladega. Lauderdale went on to play a part in Jackson’s defeat of the British in the battle of New Orleans in 1815, which ended the War of 1812.​

Evidence supporting Jonathan Crawford’s service under Lauderdale in Florida was brought by his widow, Neoma O.C. Sarah Smith Crawford, also known as Neona Crawford, to the Bledsoe County Commission of Bledsoe County, Tennessee in 1850 and 1851, when she applied for a pension from the U.S. government for her husband’s service during the 1837-1838 Second Seminole War.

Thursday is debate night in Houston, and Warren is one of the ten candidates seeking the 2020 Democrat presidential nomination who will be on stage. The debate is hosted by ABC and Univision, and will be moderated by ABC’s George Stephanopoulos, David Muir, Linsey Davis, and Univision’s Jorge Ramos.

In the first two debates among candidates vying for the 2020 Democrat presidential nomination, hosted by CNN and MSNBC, Warren faced no questions about her false claims of Native American ancestry.

Neoma O.C. Sarah Smith Crawford is Sen. Warren’s great-great-great grandmother. She and Jonathan Crawford were parents of Sen. Warren’s great-great grandfather Preston H.Crawford.

In that time period, widows of soldiers who served the United States in the Tennessee Militia began their request for pensions at the county level. William Brown, the chairman of the Bledsoe County Court in 1851, offered these observations about Neoma O.C. Sarah Smith Crawford’s request for a pension when it was brought to his attention.

According to an entry in Sequatchie Valley Revolutionary War Soldiers, which was confirmed to Breitbart News on Wednesday by James Douthat, who compiled and published the book at his company, Mountain Press:

Wm. Brown, Chmn of County Court, requests increase in Sibby Reed’s pension; mentions Thomas Pope of Sparta; and on October 12, 1851 writes that JONATHAN CRAWFORD was a Private in Capt. Richard Waterhouse’s Company in the ‘Florida War’ and died shortly after his return, from disease contracted there. Is not his widow entitled to a pension?​

Douthat also confirmed that records show Jonathan Crawford was enrolled in Captain Richard Waterhouse’s company during the Second Seminole War from 1837 to 1838.

The pension for which Neona Crawford, widow of Private Jonathan Crawford, applied in Bledsoe County in 1850 and 1851 was granted by the U.S. Department of War for Neona in 1853. She received a pension of $3.50 per month for a period of six years, ending in 1859. The pension was apparently administered out of the U.S. Department of War’s offices located in Knoxville, Tennessee.

You can see the image of the record of that pension here:

Jonathan Crawford is the same ancestor of Elizabeth Warren who one year earlier in 1836 served in the Tennessee Militia that rounded up Cherokees living in Tennessee at the beginning of the Trail of Tears.

Crawford was among 600 Tennesseans who volunteered to serve in the battallion recruited by William Lauderdale to fight against the Seminoles in Florida.

The Seminole Tribe of Florida offers this description of the Second Seminole War in which Elizabeth Warren’s great-great-great grandfather fought against them:

Through the Treaty of Moultrie Creek (1823), the Treaty of Payne’s Landing (1832), and numerous “talks” and meetings, US Indian Agents sought to convince the Florida Indians to sell their cattle and pigs to the US government, return runaway slaves to their “rightful owners,” leave their ancient homelands in Florida, and move west of the Mississippi River to Arkansas Territory. In 1830, soon after Jackson the Indian fighter became Andrew Jackson, the president of the United States, he pushed through Congress an Indian Removal Act. With this Act, the determination of the government to move Indians out of the Southeast and open the land for white settlement became the official policy of the US, and the willingness of the government to spend monies in support of military enforcement of this policy increased.

The clash that inevitably resulted from this policy finally began in 1835, and the seven years that it lasted frame the last, the greatest, and arguably the most tragic years in the history of US-Indian relations east of the Mississippi River. Known to history as the Second Seminole War, the US government committed almost $40,000,000 to the forced removal of slightly more than 3,000 Maskókî men, women, and children from Florida to Oklahoma. This was the only Indian war in US history in which not only the US army but also the US navy and marine corps participated. Together with the desultory Third Seminole War, a series of skirmishes that took place between 1856 and 1858, the United States spent much of the first half of the 19th century in trying, unsuccessfully, to dislodge about 5,000 Seminoles from Florida.

Unlike the “Trail of Tears” that took place in a single, dreadful moment, in 1838, in which several thousand Cherokee people were sent on a death march to the West, the removals of the Seminole people from Florida began earlier and lasted 20 years longer. Just like that other event, however, the toll in human suffering was profound and the stain on the honor of a great nation, the United States, can never be erased. The Seminole people – men, women, and children, were hunted with bloodhounds, rounded up like cattle, and forced onto ships that carried them to New Orleans and up the Mississippi. Together with several hundred of the African ex-slaves who had fought with them, they were then sent overland to Fort Gibson (Arkansas), and on to strange and inhospitable new lands where they were attacked by other tribes, in a fierce competition for the scarce resources that they all needed to survive.
​

......

Link

 

[Andy Capp]

Bayesian reasoning does a good job of holding the line there, imo.

It's a reasonably good guide in some contexts but it's easily misapplied. Mind you, I'm referring to my understanding of it as it applies to scientific research. I am not familiar with any more general application and I would question its applicability when put to any use for which it is not intended. And I don't think clownshoes there knows the difference. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Fawlty]

It's a reasonably good guide in some contexts but it's easily misapplied. Mind you, I'm referring to my understanding of it as it applies to scientific research. I am not familiar with any more general application and I would question its applicability when put to any use for which it is not intended. And I don't think clownshoes there knows the difference. Just my 2 cents.

Yeah people have a hard time knowing when to use certain priors (I'm no exception, nobody is), and it's not necessarily easy to figure out. My favorite recent example of misuse was with the Epstein suicide. Most people were trying to use the prior of the facility having an exceptional history of preventing suicide, but that was not valid on its own because it did not take into account the conditions in the facility at the time of the suicide, which is what actually mattered there.

 

[Trotsky]

@Limbo Pete

Elizabeth Warren a Direct Descendant of Militia ‘Indian Fighter’ Who Fought Seminole Tribe


Sen. Elizabeth Warren’s (D-MA) great-great-great grandfather Jonathan Crawford served in Major William Lauderdale’s Battalion of Tennessee Volunteer Militia from November 1837 to May 1838, a six month time period during which it fought two battles in Florida against the Seminoles. Today, there are two federally recognized Native American Seminole tribes, the Seminole Tribe of Florida, which has 4,000 enrolled members, and the Seminole Nation of Oklahoma, which has more than 18,000 enrolled members.

Lauderdale’s battalion fought against the Seminoles at the Battle of Loxahatchie River, in present day Jupiter, Florida, on January 24, 1838. Then on March 22, 1838 they fought against the Seminoles again at the Battle of Pine Island, in present day Fort Lauderdale.

A native of Virginia, Lauderdale moved to Tennessee, where he was known as the latest in a long line of Indian fighters, as the Daily Press reported in 1992:

Like other Virginians of his day, Lauderdale developed into an Indian fighter. In 1803 he marched as a Tennessee volunteer to the Louisiana Territory to fight for the United States against the Spanish and the Indians. In the War of 1812 he served under Gen. Jackson and fought against the Indian allies of the British in what are now Alabama, Mississippi and Louisiana. . .

William Lauderdale became Gen. Jackson’s trusted understudy in the War of 1812. When the Creek Indians rose up to massacre white settlers in Alabama in 1813 and President James Madison ordered Jackson to defend the area, Capt. Lauderdale and his Tennessee Vols helped win the battle of Talladega. Lauderdale went on to play a part in Jackson’s defeat of the British in the battle of New Orleans in 1815, which ended the War of 1812.​

Evidence supporting Jonathan Crawford’s service under Lauderdale in Florida was brought by his widow, Neoma O.C. Sarah Smith Crawford, also known as Neona Crawford, to the Bledsoe County Commission of Bledsoe County, Tennessee in 1850 and 1851, when she applied for a pension from the U.S. government for her husband’s service during the 1837-1838 Second Seminole War.

Thursday is debate night in Houston, and Warren is one of the ten candidates seeking the 2020 Democrat presidential nomination who will be on stage. The debate is hosted by ABC and Univision, and will be moderated by ABC’s George Stephanopoulos, David Muir, Linsey Davis, and Univision’s Jorge Ramos.

In the first two debates among candidates vying for the 2020 Democrat presidential nomination, hosted by CNN and MSNBC, Warren faced no questions about her false claims of Native American ancestry.

Neoma O.C. Sarah Smith Crawford is Sen. Warren’s great-great-great grandmother. She and Jonathan Crawford were parents of Sen. Warren’s great-great grandfather Preston H.Crawford.

In that time period, widows of soldiers who served the United States in the Tennessee Militia began their request for pensions at the county level. William Brown, the chairman of the Bledsoe County Court in 1851, offered these observations about Neoma O.C. Sarah Smith Crawford’s request for a pension when it was brought to his attention.

According to an entry in Sequatchie Valley Revolutionary War Soldiers, which was confirmed to Breitbart News on Wednesday by James Douthat, who compiled and published the book at his company, Mountain Press:

Wm. Brown, Chmn of County Court, requests increase in Sibby Reed’s pension; mentions Thomas Pope of Sparta; and on October 12, 1851 writes that JONATHAN CRAWFORD was a Private in Capt. Richard Waterhouse’s Company in the ‘Florida War’ and died shortly after his return, from disease contracted there. Is not his widow entitled to a pension?​

Douthat also confirmed that records show Jonathan Crawford was enrolled in Captain Richard Waterhouse’s company during the Second Seminole War from 1837 to 1838.

The pension for which Neona Crawford, widow of Private Jonathan Crawford, applied in Bledsoe County in 1850 and 1851 was granted by the U.S. Department of War for Neona in 1853. She received a pension of $3.50 per month for a period of six years, ending in 1859. The pension was apparently administered out of the U.S. Department of War’s offices located in Knoxville, Tennessee.

You can see the image of the record of that pension here:

Jonathan Crawford is the same ancestor of Elizabeth Warren who one year earlier in 1836 served in the Tennessee Militia that rounded up Cherokees living in Tennessee at the beginning of the Trail of Tears.

Crawford was among 600 Tennesseans who volunteered to serve in the battallion recruited by William Lauderdale to fight against the Seminoles in Florida.

The Seminole Tribe of Florida offers this description of the Second Seminole War in which Elizabeth Warren’s great-great-great grandfather fought against them:

Through the Treaty of Moultrie Creek (1823), the Treaty of Payne’s Landing (1832), and numerous “talks” and meetings, US Indian Agents sought to convince the Florida Indians to sell their cattle and pigs to the US government, return runaway slaves to their “rightful owners,” leave their ancient homelands in Florida, and move west of the Mississippi River to Arkansas Territory. In 1830, soon after Jackson the Indian fighter became Andrew Jackson, the president of the United States, he pushed through Congress an Indian Removal Act. With this Act, the determination of the government to move Indians out of the Southeast and open the land for white settlement became the official policy of the US, and the willingness of the government to spend monies in support of military enforcement of this policy increased.

The clash that inevitably resulted from this policy finally began in 1835, and the seven years that it lasted frame the last, the greatest, and arguably the most tragic years in the history of US-Indian relations east of the Mississippi River. Known to history as the Second Seminole War, the US government committed almost $40,000,000 to the forced removal of slightly more than 3,000 Maskókî men, women, and children from Florida to Oklahoma. This was the only Indian war in US history in which not only the US army but also the US navy and marine corps participated. Together with the desultory Third Seminole War, a series of skirmishes that took place between 1856 and 1858, the United States spent much of the first half of the 19th century in trying, unsuccessfully, to dislodge about 5,000 Seminoles from Florida.

Unlike the “Trail of Tears” that took place in a single, dreadful moment, in 1838, in which several thousand Cherokee people were sent on a death march to the West, the removals of the Seminole people from Florida began earlier and lasted 20 years longer. Just like that other event, however, the toll in human suffering was profound and the stain on the honor of a great nation, the United States, can never be erased. The Seminole people – men, women, and children, were hunted with bloodhounds, rounded up like cattle, and forced onto ships that carried them to New Orleans and up the Mississippi. Together with several hundred of the African ex-slaves who had fought with them, they were then sent overland to Fort Gibson (Arkansas), and on to strange and inhospitable new lands where they were attacked by other tribes, in a fierce competition for the scarce resources that they all needed to survive.
​

......

Link

You know we can hover over the "Link" and see it's Breitbart, yeah?

 

[Andy Capp]

The new Bill Burr special was better than his last one (which isn’t saying much considering his last one was probably his worst.) I was worried he was getting soft after having a kid but the special went back to all his old stuff, including his anger.

I will likely get flamed for this, but I find a lot of his stuff to be pretty facile. Yes, he's funny frequently, but he's also not funny (to me) a lot of the time. Just saying, I don't see the super awesome greatness many seem to apply to him.

 

[HockeyBjj]

Holy hell the lounge is apparently way, way better at 3am on a weekday

Thanks for the stories @Darkballs . Porn Godfather of Kuwait would make a great username here if you ever needed a new one.