War Room Lounge v51: A Total Non-Starter

[Gregolian]

Plus, my dumb ass has been watching videos about Kingdom Come: Deliverance and while I want to play it made me realize instead of buying a new game I should fucking finish Witcher 3 since I only got 30 minutes into it before I got fucked on a quest and stopped playing.

 

[Trotsky]

Oh, god. His face. It's nauseating.

 

[Straight_Edge]

Curious which the warroom thinks is worse
Holding hands with Putin
Going over to Kim's house to play
Or
Being besties with MBS

 

[PolishHeadlock2]

1. Unitas
2. Brady
3. Manning
4. Rodgers
5. Brees
6. Marino
7. Favre
8. Montana
9. Young
10. Graham



Have you watched Packers games the past few years? The issue in terms of building rhythm are hard to quantify outside of watching the games, but they manifest in the skyrocketing play durations and plummeting completion percentages and scoring totals. Aaron has been like the #30-ranked QB in the league over the past four years in terms of completion percentage and was 39th (!) last year as well as like 17th in yards per attempt. There's no doubt that Davante is good (and Jordy was great), but Aaron's habit of not throwing with anticipation and extending every play started that season because Davante and Cobb couldn't get separation at all. Hell, Davante still can't separate: just look at his highlights compared to other top receivers.

Mark Schlereth said it best when he said in 2016 that it was like they went into every huddle and said "broken play on 3, break!"



It's hard to allocate blame. I think it's mostly on Ted Thompson for not firing McCarthy a couple years ago. Hard to blame McCarthy just for being an incompetent chode. Rodgers definitely deserves some blame for getting high on his own supply and falling in love with extending for deep shots.

I don't know how you put Manning over Brees.

Manning had the better WRs, RBs and a great O-Line

Brees lead the league in yards 7 times, TDs 4 times, Compl % 5 times.

vs Manning 3 times on yards, 3 times on TDs and twice on compl %

And Brees can make all the throws Manning can make

 

[kpt018]

1. Unitas
2. Brady
3. Manning
4. Rodgers
5. Brees
6. Marino
7. Favre
8. Montana
9. Young
10. Graham



Have you watched Packers games the past few years? The issue in terms of building rhythm are hard to quantify outside of watching the games, but they manifest in the skyrocketing play durations and plummeting completion percentages and scoring totals. Aaron has been like the #30-ranked QB in the league over the past four years in terms of completion percentage and was 39th (!) last year as well as like 17th in yards per attempt. There's no doubt that Davante is good (and Jordy was great), but Aaron's habit of not throwing with anticipation and extending every play started that season because Davante and Cobb couldn't get separation at all. Hell, Davante still can't separate: just look at his highlights compared to other top receivers.

Mark Schlereth said it best when he said in 2016 that it was like they went into every huddle and said "broken play on 3, break!"



It's hard to allocate blame. I think it's mostly on Ted Thompson for not firing McCarthy a couple years ago. Hard to blame McCarthy just for being an incompetent chode. Rodgers definitely deserves some blame for getting high on his own supply and falling in love with extending for deep shots.

He's the qb, so of course he gets the blame. My view is the Packers have built poor teams to support Rodgers. And yes, I watch Packers games too.

The Davante point is head-scratching. Did you watch the games? He torched top corners, including Peterson. You can't put up nearly 1,400 yards when you can't separate (and play the bears and vikings twice).

 

[Higus]

Says the peon currently carded, just like the idiot liking your posts.

eh, if you never get carded around here, you're not trying hard enough.

 

[Gregolian]

He's the qb, so of course he gets the blame. My view is the Packers have built poor teams to support Rodgers. And yes, I watch Packers games too.

The Davante point is head-scratching. Did you watch the games? He torched top corners, including Peterson. You can't put up nearly 1,400 yards when you can't separate (and play the bears and vikings twice).

Him and Geronimo remind me almost like far FAR less physically imposing versions of Megatron (when Megatron was nearing the end of his career). Reason being they win jump balls a lot.

You get them the ball neither of them ever seem to have a TON of RAC yardage. They certainly get some but there's a lot of back shoulder toe tap and out of bound catches for them.

 

[HockeyBjj]

Damnit.

K Harris seems the most racist/sexist pandering of them all from my social media following of her

 

[BarryDillon]

Damnit.

K Harris seems the most racist/sexist pandering of them all from my social media following of her

Maybe you should focus more on policy ideas?

 

[HockeyBjj]

Maybe you should focus more on policy ideas?

What?

That is my point. She doesn't focus on any policy ideas whereas Warren and Bernie at least do.

All Haris really says on facebook is X identity group is burdened by Trump. Posts like this



Also of note, Biden doesn't talk policy very much on social media either. I think he's trying to take a "just don't say anything stupid" approach to being the early lead dog, but I don't think that's working out for him.

 

[Trotsky]

I don't know how you put Manning over Brees.

Manning had the better WRs, RBs and a great O-Line

Brees lead the league in yards 7 times, TDs 4 times, Compl % 5 times.

vs Manning 3 times on yards, 3 times on TDs and twice on compl %

And Brees can make all the throws Manning can make

I rank Peyton higher on the basis of his being able to not only translate across systems (Mora --> Dungy / Caldwell --> Fox --> Kubiak) but really create his own system and only be slowed down by the GOAT strategic genius of Bill Belichick. As silly as it may sound, I think it's important. I also think that, frankly, Tom Brady

Also, sex appeal.

He's the qb, so of course he gets the blame. My view is the Packers have built poor teams to support Rodgers. And yes, I watch Packers games too.

The poverty of roster talent is overrated. They've had the best pass blocking line in football, a quality running back, and a quality wide receiver pretty much every year since 2013. They've also had considerable talent/investment in the defense, with having Clay Matthews, Julius Peppers, Mike Daniels, Sam Shields, Morgan Burnett, and Kenny Clark.

For the defense, it's been coaching.

The Davante point is head-scratching. Did you watch the games? He torched top corners, including Peterson. You can't put up nearly 1,400 yards when you can't separate (and play the bears and vikings twice).

LOL!

Davante does not torch people. He gets some separation at the base of his route with his elite footwork and foot speed off the line, but good corners close the separation quickly because he lacks speed. This results in him having an extremely high contested catch rate, low yards per reception (despite having the most prolific deep passer in the league), and very low yards per target.

For reference on yards per target in 2018:
Julio Jones - 9.9
Deandre Hopkins - 9.6
Michael Thomas - 9.6
AJ Green - 9.0
JuJu Smith-Schuster - 8.6
Davante Adams - 7.4

(For reference, Jordy Nelson's career Y/T was 9.3)

If you watch his highlights, you'll see that nearly all of Davante's catches past the line of scrimmage gain no YAC because they are in contested single coverage. That's because he can't separate.

 

[Gregolian]

Davante does not torch people. He gets some separation at the base of his route with his elite footwork and foot speed off the line, but good corners close the separation quickly because he lacks speed. This results in him having an extremely high contested catch rate, low yards per reception (despite having the most prolific deep passer in the league), and very low yards per target.

For reference on yards per target in 2018:
Julio Jones - 9.9
Deandre Hopkins - 9.6
Michael Thomas - 9.6
AJ Green - 9.0
JuJu Smith-Schuster - 8.6
Davante Adams - 7.4

(For reference, Jordy Nelson's career Y/T was 9.3)

If you watch his highlights, you'll see that nearly all of Davante's catches past the line of scrimmage gain no YAC because they are in contested single coverage. That's because he can't separate.

I hope Kumerow or another receiver can become THAT GUY down low/across the middle that forces safeties to cheat up a bit to open up the downfield stuff for MVS, Allison, or Adams.

 

[Trotsky]

I hope Kumerow or another receiver can become THAT GUY down low/across the middle that forces safeties to cheat up a bit to open up the downfield stuff for MVS, Allison, or Adams.

Really, just anything down the middle, deep, short, or intermediate, would make me happy. Enough sideline 50/50's and 3rd down WR screens ffs.

 

[Gregolian]

Really, just anything down the middle, deep, short, or intermediate, would make me happy. Enough sideline 50/50's and 3rd down WR screens ffs.

If only he didn't dive in like this:

 

[Trotsky]

If only he didn't dive in like this:

Meh, I'm done projecting WR's off of skill, let alone preseason performance.

As we all remember, Jeff Janus was the GOAT preseason player in Packers history and now he's working at Footlocker. I also thought Abbrederis would do well with his A+ route running and he got bounced as well.

 

[My Spot]

3. Manning

Which one? The 2x SB MVP or the guy who threw more Ints than TDs in his SB appearances?

 

[Trotsky]

Which one? The 2x SB MVP or the guy who threw more Ints than TDs in his SB appearances?

You change your username too much.

Also, the proper differentiation is "the one who is developmentally disabled" versus "the ones who looks like a toe."

 

[Fawlty]

*Depending on where you live.

Yeah, that for sure. And speaking of rich, when the hell did a decent pair of slacks start costing $60 minimum?

 

[kpt018]

I rank Peyton higher on the basis of his being able to not only translate across systems (Mora --> Dungy / Caldwell --> Fox --> Kubiak) but really create his own system and only be slowed down by the GOAT strategic genius of Bill Belichick. As silly as it may sound, I think it's important. I also think that, frankly, Tom Brady

Also, sex appeal.



The poverty of roster talent is overrated. They've had the best pass blocking line in football, a quality running back, and a quality wide receiver pretty much every year since 2013. They've also had considerable talent/investment in the defense, with having Clay Matthews, Julius Peppers, Mike Daniels, Sam Shields, Morgan Burnett, and Kenny Clark.

For the defense, it's been coaching.

Their defense has been consistently ranked middle of league to bottom quarter for years. Julius Peppers was a dinosaur when they signed him. Clay was the lone man on otherwise below average defenses. They were ranked 22 in rushing last year.

Are you arguing they put good teams around Rodgers? It doesn't add up. I do think coaching was poor.

LOL!

Davante does not torch people. He gets some separation at the base of his route with his elite footwork and foot speed off the line, but good corners close the separation quickly because he lacks speed.

Does he get separation or not? Seems like you're saying he does now. Did he not beat Xavier Rhodes and Patrick Peterson several times (and for TDs)?

This results in him having an extremely high contested catch rate, low yards per reception (despite having the most prolific deep passer in the league), and very low yards per target.

For reference on yards per target in 2018:
Julio Jones - 9.9
Deandre Hopkins - 9.6
Michael Thomas - 9.6
AJ Green - 9.0
JuJu Smith-Schuster - 8.6
Davante Adams - 7.4

(For reference, Jordy Nelson's career Y/T was 9.3)

Why do you think yards per target is the key stat here when discussing separation? Also, you're aware that you're comparing him to elite talent?

If you watch his highlights, you'll see that nearly all of Davante's catches past the line of scrimmage gain no YAC because they are in contested single coverage. That's because he can't separate.

What exactly are you arguing here? Adams is average or something? He beats guys in the red zone, so the fact that he ranks above average but not elite in yards/target but makes an incredible living with sideline and red zone catches doesn't mean he is not an elite WR.

Honestly I don't even know how we got here.

 

[Trotsky]

Him and Geronimo remind me almost like far FAR less physically imposing versions of Megatron (when Megatron was nearing the end of his career). Reason being they win jump balls a lot.

You get them the ball neither of them ever seem to have a TON of RAC yardage. They certainly get some but there's a lot of back shoulder toe tap and out of bound catches for them.

Packers WR's in my lifetime:

1. Jordy Nelson
2. Javon Walker
3. Greg Jennings
4. Donald Driver
5. Antonio Freeman
6. Davante Adams
7. James Jones
8. Randall Cobb
9. Terry Glenn
10. Corey Bradford