War Room Lounge v51: A Total Non-Starter

[MiniCraque]

I don't understand the issue well enough, mostly because I can't predict what the landscape is going to look like as we maximize automation, how many jobs we'll actually lose, and how people will be employed or what new industries pop up. So I can't even say where it should rank as a focus.

Nobody does, that's the thing. The automation argument for UBI infers that at some point we'll all be sitting on our asses while the machines do everything (like in Wall-E) and all but the highest skilled labor will not exist anymore. Even if that could theoretically happen, that's not something really foreseeable for our lifetime, nor that of the next generation.

Technological advances do kill some jobs but never in history have they not also enabled the creation of jobs that wouldn't be possible without them or made existing jobs more productive. While I don't think this is enough to reject the automation argument wholesale (that line of reasoning falls victim to the uniformity principle), the whole point of innovation is that it breaks new ground. If we could predict right now changes in how labor is employed, those changes wouldn't really be innovation, would they? If anything the uncertainty is an argument against "jobs no longer exist so here's free money", not for it.

Minor point but I think calling it "the freedom dividend" is demagoguery at its finest.

 

[Fawlty]

Because he's arguing that automation is taking our jerbs or soon will be, while the bigger problem is that we don't have enough automation (as a stand-in for general technology-based productivity growth).

Also, minor quibble, but I don't think it's been true since fire and the wheel. Really significant change in living standards started in the 1800s and then started petering out in the mid-to-late 1900s. For most of human history before that, there really wasn't much improvement.

That's a super deep topic (tech history/impact), and I don't mind getting into it, fun stuff.

My take on Yang is he's saying that automation is coming, like it or not, and it would seem to me that the disagreement with him should be along the lines of how urgent the need is to redistribute wealth and force shifts in education/tech training to make up for that, or a disagreement about the expected impact of automation on living-wage employment. Would the market sort most of it out? etc

 

[Limbo Pete]

@Limbo Pete

I was thinking of you just now as I inspected my long, thick cucumber.

Man, we've really done a number on you

 

[Sketch]

@Limbo Pete

I was thinking of you just now as I inspected my long, thick cucumber.

Careful, you keep posting these cucumbers and he's going to want to come over for dinner,

 

[Limbo Pete]

Careful, you keep posting these cucumbers and he's going to want to come over for dinner,

@senri

 

[Fawlty]

If anything the uncertainty is an argument against "jobs no longer exist so here's free money", not for it.

Yeah that's an especially good point. Overreacting to something as if it's a worst-or-very-bad-case scenario could be a major problem, and is the worst kind of reaction to uncertainty, like walking at random in the woods because you suspect you may be lost.

 

[Fawlty]

Man, we've really done a number on you

Time zones were exposed in this cucumber pic(k).

 

[Jack V Savage]

That's a super deep topic (tech history/impact), and I don't mind getting into it, fun stuff.

My take on Yang is he's saying that automation is coming, like it or not, and it would seem to me that the disagreement with him should be along the lines of how urgent the need is to redistribute wealth and force shifts in education/tech training to make up for that, or a disagreement about the expected impact of automation on living-wage employment. Would the market sort most of it out? etc

Yeah, I think he's wrong about the extent of automation and the impact on jobs. Like MC said, technological advance changes the workforce somewhat, but it's never previously caused the kind of problem Yang fears and it's slowing down (again, in terms of impact). You never know, of course, but it's not high on our list of legitimate concerns (while slow growth should be).

Also, I think the true ultimate tech is desire modification, as that amounts to practical omnipotence.

 

[waiguoren]

Man, we've really done a number on you

Not your best, prof

 

[waiguoren]

Time zones were exposed in this cucumber pic(k).

Which time zone do you think it was taken in?

 

[Limbo Pete]

Not your best, prof

 

[Fawlty]

Which time zone do you think it was taken in?

"it's"
out of mind
parsley sage rosemary and
peanut butter jelly

 

[MiniCraque]

That's a super deep topic (tech history/impact), and I don't mind getting into it, fun stuff.

My take on Yang is he's saying that automation is coming, like it or not, and it would seem to me that the disagreement with him should be along the lines of how urgent the need is to redistribute wealth and force shifts in education/tech training to make up for that, or a disagreement about the expected impact of automation on living-wage employment. Would the market sort most of it out? etc

Short term unemployment for some people can happen from time to time (print lab workers, switchboard operators, etc), but it's never widescale enough that those people will find entirely saturated job markets and be out of work indefinitely.

I'm all for education and tech training being incentivized at the federal level but for young students, not displaced workers. Usually the people who are truly displaced find themselves in that condition because they're old or too stubborn, not because they're untrained. It's easy to picture Cleetus, the 55 year old disgruntled coal plant worker who got his job killled by liberals and their clean energy (we can hope!), but enough of those actually exist that they should garner that much attention?

 

[MiniCraque]

What is this and why have I never watched it before?

 

[Fawlty]

Now rewatch it but pretend Mr. T is Buster Bluth instead. With Lindsay, Tobias, and Maeby singing backup.

 

[MiniCraque]

Let's not turn this into a Arrested Development appreciation thread.

Or let's?

 

[Fawlty]

Let's not turn this into a Arrested Development appreciation thread.

Or let's?

That's gonna have to be the next thread. I hope I remember.

 

[Limbo Pete]

What is this and why have I never watched it before?

Just Mr. T doing his part to give the kids a good message

 

[Fawlty]

I was curious, is anybody else a bit uncomfortable with how smoothly the term "______-industrial complex" has reinserted itself into our vocabulary? I don't mean to say it's wrong to criticize the converging interests and how those relationships might encourage corrupt or aggressive behavior, but it's thrown around too uncritically and taken for granted when used. I detect a twinge and a reluctance to interject from people who would be critical of its use.

 

[Unknown Pleasures]

Is Snakedafunky still around?

Miss that dude... one hilarious mofo.