War Room Lounge V36: Liquor in the rear, too

[Cubo de Sangre]

Interesting post Mr. Shzvrfedharevh9y8yvfdgbkavbrqfuer

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

@JamesRussler, if you like DEP then give this a shot. Nowhere near the same raw aggression, and we really thought the band was onto something. The broke up when one of the guy's dads died, who was some aid to Jimmy Carter or some shit, and the main dude was gonna compile his memoirs or something. No clue how that turned out.

 

[Prokofievian]

@JamesRussler, if you like DEP then give this a shot. Nowhere near the same raw aggression, and we really thought the band was onto something. The broke up when one of the guy's dads died, who was some aid to Jimmy Carter or some shit, and the main dude was gonna compile his memoirs or something. No clue how that turned out.

That's one of my favourite albums of all time.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

That's one of my favourite albums of all time.

Ha! No shit?

One year at SXSW they played ahead of High on Fire (a notoriously awesome fuckin' live band) and just destroyed. Made 'em sound kinda flat. It was both shocking and incredible. Bummed me out they never did a follow-up record. Their prior stuff just doesn't compare.


You familiar with this album?

 

[Prokofievian]

Ha! No shit?

One year at SXSW they played ahead of High on Fire (a notoriously awesome fuckin' live band) and just destroyed. Made 'em sound kinda flat. It was both shocking and incredible. Bummed me out they never did a follow-up record. Their prior stuff just doesn't compare.


You familiar with this album?

I am not, I'll check it out.

My friend played me their album Dead Mountain Mouth on a road trip and I thought it was awesome, if a bit raw. When I saw Board up the House in a music store I just picked it up, threw it in the CD player of my car and it absolutely blew my mind.

It's a bit of a shame that the band never did anything else, but it would have been a tall order to top it. Maybe they knew that. Normally you get a few more albums out of a band before they realize that, or they accomplish their magnum opus lol.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

I am not, I'll check it out.

My friend played me their album Dead Mountain Mouth on a road trip and I thought it was awesome, if a bit raw. When I saw Board up the House in a music store I just picked it up, threw it in the CD player of my car and it absolutely blew my mind.

It's a bit of a shame that the band never did anything else, but it would have been a tall order to top it. Maybe they knew that. Normally you get a few more albums out of a band before they realize that, or they accomplish their magnum opus lol.

That album is cool but yeah, Board Up The House took shit up like two or three levels. They were college boys so probably all had better options than playing in a goofy grindcore band. But the demise began with Hamilton's dad passing away. I bet they had at least one or two more great records in 'em.

You're in Finland? You like Amorphis?

 

[Prokofievian]

That album is cool but yeah, Board Up The House took shit up like two or three levels. They were college boys so probably all had better options than playing in a goofy grindcore band. But the demise began with Hamilton's dad passing away. I bet they had at least one or two more great records in 'em.

You're in Finland? You like Amorphis?

I'm not in Finland anymore. I live in Holland. There is a great metal band based in Rotterdam but, funny enough, the only time I've seen them live is in Canada.



The best band I saw when I was in Finland is, by far, Finntroll.



They had troll wenches on stage. It was awesome.

 

[salamander]

Could be just me being over-sensitive.
I'm in a bit of a state lately. I don't ever want to die, but recently I kind of want to not be alive. Makes for a pessimistic attitude.

Anyway, I'm ready to call it a night, no one need panic over the above, Just sayin', as it were.

I know that feeling.

It's like when you come home from work and your birdfeeders are all fucked up but you can't tell if it was the squirrels or the wind or a person and you have to start casting about for the "why" of it all.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

I'm not in Finland anymore. I live in Holland. There is a great metal band based in Rotterdam but, funny enough, the only time I've seen them live is in Canada.



The best band I saw when I was in Finland is, by far, Finntroll.



They had troll wenches on stage. It was awesome.

I thought you were Dutch, then I looked at your location and got all tangled up.

lol. Finntroll. I'd give them a go live for the wenches, but man I didn't like their music at all and used to mock a guy for being a fan. That Malechesh is pretty good. For what Relapse did we considered the Dutch to be one of our best P4P audiences. Part of why we set up shop in Sevenum. That and we hired this dude Wilko who used to work for Hammerheart to do our European office and that's where he lived. But for whatever reason there weren't too many Dutch bands that made my radar.

 

[PEB]

 

[luckyshot]

One of the things I've spent some time thinking about is the origin of the rift between north & south, and personally I think you have to conclude that it starts when tobacco becomes big business at the same time that skilled labor takes off in New Amsterdam.

You had these tobacco farmers who were getting wealthy but also working themselves and their families, and anybody who would sign on, to an early crippled death as their businesses expanded across open fertile territory well beyond what they could handle. Of course they were going to go all in on slavery.

Meanwhile, the north was moving tons of materials around narrow, busy streets. Contemporary architecture, busy port, sawmills, guilds, cartography, arms manufacture, people building shit. It still used slave labor but it was entirely different work in its nature. No squatting with trenchfoot ripping your hands open all day at whip-point. It wasn't easy labor, but it was barely comparable. The technology and infrastructure meant less raw manpower per dollar of profit was required.

The South would use it as legal tender; the north had currency exchange.

What about the fact that the Massachusetts Bay Colony was founded as an idealistic religious settlement and the New England that arose around it (the first region in the entire world to have mandatory public education) had the highest literacy rate in the world...

... While the South was founded as a commercial venture on the back of slavery and indentured servitude where education was limited to personal tutors and private school for the children of the elite?

Despite the caveats, we can generalize about patterns of literacy. In 1974, University of Montana scholar Kenneth Lockridge’s groundbreaking book, Literacy in Colonial New England, surveyed evidence from legal records and offered provisional conclusions—“The exercise is bound to be tentative, as it uses a biased sample and an ambiguous measure”—but he made the case that, among white New England men, about 60 percent of the population was literate between 1650 and 1670, a figure that rose to 85 percent between 1758 and 1762, and to 90 percent between 1787 and 1795. In cities such as Boston, the rate had come close to 100 percent by century’s end. Lockridge and his successors showed that literacy was higher in New England and the mid-Atlantic colonies than in the South [...] Perhaps it should have been no surprise, because literacy had been an American obsession since the beginning. As early as 1642, Massachusetts passed a law ordering the selectmen to monitor children’s ability “to read & understand the principles of religion & the capitall lawes of this country.”
https://www.history.org/foundation/journal/winter11/literacy.cfm

@Jack V Savage "City on a Hill" Nationalism

 

[Captain Davis]

You can't seem to understand that i'm trying to help you break free from faulty questions that are inherently problematic and based on poor understanding of historical context. I don't even know what you're referring to at this point, but i'm assuming it was some sort of counterfactual about how things would have been different if they were different. That you wouldn't tag or quote me when making this post speaks more toward your recognition of an inherent analytic shortcoming than it does my alleged inability to respond to a critically unsound line of reasoning.
If gaining insight into the factors which propelled us into the worst bloodbath ever is really something that interests you, I strongly recommend starting with Potter's book. And hey, then we could talk about it and stuff.

Bud, I asked you a simple question that does not require a word salad. I didn’t quote you because I made the post quickly and simply forgot to quote you. I’ve also asked you the same question at least 3 times. It isn’t a difficult question to answer, yet you beat around the bush with long,drawn out aversions.

I understand the history, stop talking down to me like you have some deep insight to it and I’m some dumb redneck. I know evertmything you are saying. You and I can have that conversation, I am hitting on certain points because not many people here have much understanding to any of it and they simply believe it was all about ending slavery.

I’ll ask one more time.

Would there have been a war if there was no economic impact involved? Would Lincoln have waged war, for the sole purpose of ending slavery?

All I need is a yes or no.

 

[Andy Capp]

Okay, sorry to hear you're not well, and I can certainly concede that I can be gruff. Feel free to shoot me a PM if you ever want to chat. I'm fairly certain that existential disenchantment is at an all-time high in the post-2016 "everyone is dumber, more hateful, and more selfish than I thought" world order.

Nah dude, nothing to do with "Post-2016". Nothing to do with "gruffness" either, don't worry. It's like this,

 

[Captain Davis]

Hot take: the worst decision in of the Civil War was the ridiculously lenient terms of peace offered to the Confederacy.

After the Confederate states chose to secede from the union, they gave up their right to statehood and should have been readmitted to the Union only as territorial possessions.

They actually were treated as such. Look into the tactics used by the Johnson and Grant during Reconstruction. It explains most of the discourse between Southern whites, Yankees who were sent down to take over political positions and the newly freed blacks.

 

[luckyshot]

They actually were treated as such. Look into the tactics used by the Johnson and Grant during Reconstruction. It explains most of the discourse between Southern whites, Yankees who were sent down to take over political positions and the newly freed blacks.

I mean they should have had no Senators, Representatives, or votes in the Electoral College.

Those are things that states get.

The South didn't want to be states. They said so.

 

[Captain Davis]

The ethical argument for slavery is that it is more ethical than wage labor. The idea is that the slave master owns the slave and is therefore invested in his well being the same way a farmer is invested in the well being of his livestock. An employer who merely hires wage labor does not care for the long term well being of his employees, he only cares for them as long as they are productive and as soon as they are not he hires someone else. The slave master however is responsible for clothing, feeding, and housing his labor.

Ultimately, preserving slavery was the primary goal of the Confederacy. That to me seems hardly in doubt. You can talk about "muh states rights" but as @Limbo Pete pointed out Southerners didn't care about that when it came to enforcing the Fugitive Slave Act.

There is no question that the Southern planters wanted to preserve slavery. I’ve never said slavery wasn’t a major issue. It just wasn’t the only issue. And it wasn’t the main reason that the soldiers were motivated to fight. The planters and politicians certainly wanted to preserve it. However, remember that the Northern economy utilized the money made by those Southern planters. They had no intent to end slavery where it existed. They didn’t want the new territories being added to include slavery because it would get in the way of their own business interests.

 

[Captain Davis]

I mean they should have had no Senators, Representatives, or votes in the Electoral College.

Those are things that states get.

The South didn't want to be states. They said so.

They did that. They put people in place to ensure that no Southern Democrat would be voted in again. They also removed every sitting politician and replaced them with a Yankee or black man just to punish them. This is when the KKK was formed. It was in response to the actions of Johnson and Grant during Reconstruction.

 

[luckyshot]

They did that. They put people in place to ensure that no Southern Democrat would be voted in again. They also removed every sitting politician and replaced them with a Yankee or black man just to punish them. This is when the KKK was formed. It was in response to the actions of Johnson and Grant during Reconstruction.

Those mean Yankees... you mean they made it possible for black men to hold seats in the House of Representatives in districts where the population was... mostly black...?

 

[Captain Davis]

Those mean Yankees... they made it possible for black men to hold seats in the House of Representatives in districts where the population was... 70%+ black...?

Well, at that time, they weren’t qualified for it. It was only done as punishment. But I guess you can spin it that way.

When you lose the war, you must deal with the consequences.

 

[luckyshot]

Well, at that time, they weren’t qualified for it. It was only done as punishment. But I guess you can spin it that way.

When you lose the war, you must deal with the consequences.

I'm fairly certain that the only real qualification for holding office is winning an election. Examples abound.