Social War Room Lounge v259 *InsertTitleHere*

[essie]

No, they were chicks with dicks and nobody said otherwise.

I think you are misreading my post. I agree that kind of language was more accepted but my point is if you are using it now you probably never operated from a place of compassion for marginalized people which is the key tenant of leftism. You seem to have an issue about the evolving way that we speak about and treat people. All I can say is that if you carried that attitude across history, looking back on it now you would be on the side of some truly hateful people.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Noah Smith had an interesting bit on that recently(ish).

https://noahpinion.substack.com/p/insurrection-thoughts-113



I'd like to hear @AgonyandIrony's take on some of the stuff described in one of those links.



^^^^ something you never hear anyone who isn't a rightist loon saying. Pretty sure you'd never see Adam Smith argue that the gov't should take over a business if it criticizes the president.

Tl;dr

I was being facetious if you couldn't tell.

 

[essie]

And also saying that 20 years ago everyone was bigoted towards Trans people ignores the long history of leftist movements that fought for queer visibility and acceptance, and probably points to the fact that you weren't aware of them in that time only because you might not be a leftist.

 

[Bald1]

I don't know a lot about you but I think going off this post at least the way you communicate is antithetical to what I think of as ideal leftism which is empathic. If you say 20 years ago people were calling you a leftist but today you call trans women "chicks with dicks" I would say that perhaps you sat on the left on some issues but you capacity to communicate about groups that are marginalized probably never fit there. It's not so much about policy. In fact if you said I respect trans women but I think there are conversations to be had about the makeup of women's shelters I don't think anyone but extreme reactionaries would have a problem.

I'm sure we agree on some policy things but just from you calling trans women "chicks with dicks" I feel less enthused about this space. Which isn't to say that's not silly or based on emotion. It is, but I think that, at least for me, compassion has to be the guiding light of leftism.

Being liberal doesn't mean being nice or pampering people or indulging their delusions. I can both hold the view that trans people should have all the rights and opportunities as everyone else and not think of them as real women. Hence, chicks with dicks.

In other words, I don't have to like or understand something in order to support your right to participate in it. Yet, as with every right, there are limitations. When it comes to the trans topic that limitation is best illustrated with the case of a guy in Canada putting 16 salons out of business for refusing to wax his balls. I have less than zero respect for such behavior.

I think there's a huge difference between liberal and left. So that's where I'm coming from. One is a philosophy, the other a political leaning imo.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

I think you are misreading my post. I agree that kind of language was more accepted but my point is if you are using it now you probably never operated from a place of compassion for marginalized people which is the key tenant of leftism. You seem to have an issue about the evolving way that we speak about and treat people. All I can say is that if you carried that attitude across history, looking back on it now you would be on the side of some truly hateful people.

Being a bleeding heart might be key to being a leftist, but pretty sure it's not required to be a liberal. Is being intolerant and judgmental central to leftism as well?

 

[Jesus H. Sherdog]

NFL draft tho

@LazaRRus
@Gregolian @Trotsky

I hope you’ve forgiven me Trotsky.

 

[JDragon]

I was pretty heartbroken that day. It's still one of the worst memories of my life and I cried for long periods of time over it. I don't think I was overreacting based on his time in office but to each their own. I can at least say that the feeling of terror was very real for a lot of us.

I think what you describe is just typical for the divide between majority and minority populations (if applicable in your case, I did not pay attention). Like minorities say "I experience racism" and the majority says "we are not racists" and both probably are correct based on their perceived reality. Also in this case, where the impact of Trump's policies as @Bald1 probably expected them would maybe not justify angst and fear among minority populations, but that neglects the experience and also the societal aspect of what happens when such policies get put into place.

Personally I am also completely against any type of policy that differentiates based on who you are (though I have softened my stance a bit regarding female leadership quotas). But that's also the perspective of someone who is in what people would call privileged.

 

[essie]

Being liberal doesn't mean being nice or pampering people or indulging their delusions. I can both hold the view that trans people should have all the rights and opportunities as everyone else and not think of them as real women. Hence, chicks with dicks.

In other words, I don't have to like or understand something in order to support your right to participate in it. Yet, as with every right, there are limitations. When it comes to the trans topic that limitation is best illustrated with the case of a guy in Canada putting 16 salons out of business for refusing to wax his balls. I have less than zero respect for such behavior.

I think there's a huge difference between liberal and left. Do that's where I'm coming from. One is a philosophy, the other a political leaning imo.

Yes, I agree that you can support a policy and still be cruel to people. My point is that sort of cruelty doesn't really fit on the left of today and maybe you see that as a bad thing and I see it as good thing.

 

[Jack V Savage]

I didn't think so and wasn't trying to accuse you of anything.

The fact is Cubo and I have both been accused of being anything from Trumptards to racist sexists because we dare to colour outside the lines of the newly defined boundaries of the "left".

Hmm. I don't think it's typical for you, but you did, in response to a question about how you'd redraw national borders, post this:

-Keep Europe for Europeans, Asia for Asians, and Africa for Africans. Let the countries hold plebiscites to figure out their own borders. 2nd generation and older established families can stay if they so choose.

 

[The Diplomat]

Being liberal doesn't mean being nice or pampering people or indulging their delusions. I can both hold the view that trans people should have all the rights and opportunities as everyone else and not think of them as real women. Hence, chicks with dicks.

In other words, I don't have to like or understand something in order to support your right to participate in it. Yet, as with every right, there are limitations. When it comes to the trans topic that limitation is best illustrated with the case of a guy in Canada putting 16 salons out of business for refusing to wax his balls. I have less than zero respect for such behavior.

I think there's a huge difference between liberal and left. Do that's where I'm coming from. One is a philosophy, the other a political leaning imo.

“I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it” was one of my favorites growing up. But I'm sure it's very problematic and triggering for some now a days.

 

[essie]

Being a bleeding heart might be key to being a leftist, but pretty sure it's not required to be a liberal. Is being intolerant and judgmental central to leftism as well?

I think that you are falling into the paradox of tolerance. If you are asking if being intolerant to bigoted people is a feature of the left I would say it is.

 

[Bald1]

Yes, I agree that you can support a policy and still be cruel to people. My point is that sort of cruelty doesn't really fit on the left of today and maybe you see that as a bad thing and I see it as good thing.

It's all good. I'm fine with disagreement. That doesn't mean I think less of you. That's just life.

 

[essie]

I think what you describe is just typical for the divide between majority and minority populations (if applicable in your case, I did not pay attention). Like minorities say "I experience racism" and the majority says "we are not racists" and both probably are correct based on their perceived reality. Also in this case, where the impact of Trump's policies as @Bald1 probably expected them would maybe not justify angst and fear among minority populations, but that neglects the experience and also the societal aspect of what happens when such policies get put into place.

Personally I am also completely against any type of policy that differentiates based on who you are (though I have softened my stance a bit regarding female leadership quotas). But that's also the perspective of someone who is in what people would call privileged.

This is such a great post I love it! There was a tweet from a conservative the day after Biden was elected and he said something about how he was going to go out and enjoy the day, he didn't understand why the pussies on the left lost their mind four years ago. That crystalizes the sort of ignorant bliss you are describing.

 

[JDragon]

Not every holocaust denier is a Nazi, but every Nazi is a holocaust denier.

The reality is quite certainly the reverse

 

[Sara]

Can I get cliffs about @Sara ‘s legal situation that you tagged me about in the last thread @irish_thug ?

They say there still reviewing the incident......it was 3 weeks ago.....

 

[Bald1]

Hmm. I don't think it's typical for you, but you did, in response to a question about how you'd redraw national borders, post this:

Explain to me, as if I'm an 8 year old, how that's racist? Unless that paragraph makes me racist towards every race all at the same time.

 

[essie]

I feel like I keep getting into these arguments here where I just come across as like the most whiny, emotion driven idiot on this forum. I don't know why but it's interesting to engage, at least, even if at the end I feel embarrassed.

 

[Bald1]

Damn! This thread moves fast. How do you guys keep up?

 

[essie]

i really asked that question originally just so i could post this meme lol

 

[The Diplomat]

The reality is quite certainly the reverse

Yeah, I'm pretty sure there are/were some actual Nazis that are like "Yep. It happened. Woulda happened more, too, if not for you damned allies!"