WAR ROOM LOUNGE V19: Gamblers Anonymous

[Lead]

Yeah, I think his performances managed to overshadow his TUF drama (from memory they were drinking, one of the other guys was crying about his kid, and Ferguson attacked him as a deadbeat dad). He seems to think he can improve his promotional appearances by trying harder, but it just makes it worse.

I get so many of those seasons mixed up. Like I'm trying not to mix him up with George Soto___polis but I feel like they had similar presentations in the house as loners and potential favorites to take the season.

 

[Lead]

Might just be a semantic difference here. As I see it, when you discuss "potential," you're talking about how good someone could become rather than how good they already are. Generally, people only recognize how good someone is after they've already been that good for a little while because it hasn't been demonstrated yet, and people tend to be very conservative in their estimations (on the flip side, a lot of times a formally great fighter will have declined considerably before everyone acknowledges it he hasn't actually lost yet).



I mean, yeah, life is chaotic. If we go by a "best guess" standard, there will be more disagreement but also more accuracy. If we agree not to recognize a guy's ability until he's already proved that he's one of the best beyond any doubt, we'll have more agreement but we'll all collectively be wrong more.



I think we just have to distinguish between peak value and overall value.



Kind of a footnote, yeah, but many people would be speculating (rightly) that "man, he might have been the best LHW ever."



But you get the idea, right? Someone who was incredibly brilliant for a short time vs. someone who was really good for a long time, but never at the same level as the first guy. It's not potential vs. actual; it's peak vs. total.

Yea, I think I'm completely thinking career entirety instead of the idea of peak. Peak probably would've led to a few of my previous posts being a little different. I don't usually try to evaluate that way though so my reasoning and thoughts on it may not be worth the read.

 

[Fawlty]

Going forward, I will not post a screenshot of Fawlty's posting of his own selfie again. I can find no forum rule against this, but I did post that screenshot a 2nd time after moderator Lead deleted it. I should have waited for Lead's clarification on that. I apologize to Lead for this.

As I have already done privately, I hereby apologize publicly to Fawlty for posting three PMs that he sent to me telling me to delete the screenshot of his posting of his selfie. That was clearly against forum rules. I should have reviewed forum rules before posting those PMs.

Hey, this was settled and you should not have brought it back up.

Do not ever post my private information, correspondence, or pictures. You are very fortunate that you weren't banned for this. That's all there is to say on the matter.

 

[Fedorable]

Hey, this was settled and you should not have brought it back up.

Do not ever post my private information, correspondence, or pictures. You are very fortunate that you weren't banned for this. That's all there is to say on the matter.

go on....

 

[waiguoren]

This includes posting pictures sent to you by screenshot from restricted subforums, or pictures that were posted and then deleted.

There was no way for me to know that the Fawlty's selfie was "private" or that it was posted in a "private subforum".

Via PM, I received a screenshot of Fawlty's post, which included Fawlty's selfie. There was no indication that the photo was "private", and any normal person would have assumed it was public given that Fawlty himself posted it on Sherdog.

 

[Ruprecht]

I get so many of those seasons mixed up. Like I'm trying not to mix him up with George Soto___polis but I feel like they had similar presentations in the house as loners and potential favorites to take the season.

Yeah, Sotiropoulos came across as an adult in a house of kids, and snarky about it.
Ferguson was standoffish until he got a bit of grog in him, then became a complete arsehole.
He was loudly booed at the finale because of it from memory.
Skills wise they both looked good. Ferguson a lot better obviously.

 

[Ruprecht]

There was no way for me to know that the Fawlty's selfie was "private" or that it was posted in a "private subforum".

Via PM, I received a screenshot of Fawlty's post, which included Fawlty's selfie. There was no indication that the photo was "private", and any normal person would have assumed it was public given that Fawlty himself posted it on Sherdog.

You still posted it, despite receiving it in a pm. Ignorance is no excuse.

 

[waiguoren]

You still posted it, despite receiving it in a pm. Ignorance is no excuse.

Wait.....so posting ANYTHING that one receives via PM is against the rules?

 

[Lead]

Yeah, Sotiropoulos came across as an adult in a house of kids, and snarky about it.
Ferguson was standoffish until he got a bit of grog in him, then became a complete arsehole.
He was loudly booed at the finale because of it from memory.
Skills wise they both looked good. Ferguson a lot better obviously.

Ah, well he actually mentioned in the post fight conference that he quit drinking in February. I bet it's cause problems for him in the past if the show exposed that in the short time he was there.

 

[Ruprecht]

Wait.....so posting ANYTHING that one receives via PM is against the rules?

Unless it's public info/links etc, yes, and like I said, ignorance is no excuse.
It's amazing how many people get banned for whinging about infractions and posting the infraction pm.

 

[Fawlty]

Look at it this way: Jones was the GOAT before he fought Shogun; we just didn't know it with any confidence yet

I wasn't at all confident that Jones' legacy would surpass Anderson's at that point. The only meaningful fight for him in terms of legacy was a prime Ryan Bader, which isn't worth all that much. The way he won did tell me that he was a special fighter. But not any more than, say, Max Holloway's destruction of Cub Swanson.

Then he beat a couple of over-the-hill Pride champs, which is worthy of a solid champion in Jones' era, but not GOAT impressive.

The Machida win was spectacular and is the fight that really started putting him in the conversation imo. Machida was sharp, in his prime, and was very dangerous for Jones, who handled his tactics very well.

Then he had one mismatch and two joke fights against the precipitously declining trio of Rashad, Vitor, and Chael. Only the Rashad fight was worthy of supporting a GOAT legacy, and only barely.

The Gus fight sealed it for me (for what I hope are obvious reasons), so it was a further 6 fights beyond Shogun before I accepted him as being a GSP/Silva/Fedor-level guy, rather than just a top 15 all-time kind of guy.

And after Gus he fought a better version of Rampage (Glover), Cormier who is a super legit champ, OSP who was outmatched but phenomenally dangerous and at his absolute peak, and then the best performance of his career taking out Cormier the second time, which clearly blows away anybody else's resume, and may stand forever.

 

[Ruprecht]

Ah, well he actually mentioned in the post fight conference that he quit drinking in February. I bet it's cause problems for him in the past if the show exposed that in the short time he was there.

Yeah, not surprising. Definitely looked like he couldn't handle his grog.

 

[Lead]

I wasn't at all confident that Jones' legacy would surpass Anderson's at that point. The only meaningful fight for him in terms of legacy was a prime Ryan Bader, which isn't worth all that much. The way he won did tell me that he was a special fighter. But not any more than, say, Max Holloway's destruction of Cub Swanson.

Then he beat a couple of over-the-hill Pride champs, which is worthy of a solid champion in Jones' era, but not GOAT impressive.

The Machida win was spectacular and is the fight that really started putting him in the conversation imo. Machida was sharp, in his prime, and was very dangerous for Jones, who handled his tactics very well.

Then he had one mismatch and two joke fights against the precipitously declining trio of Rashad, Vitor, and Chael. Only the Rashad fight was worthy of supporting a GOAT legacy, and only barely.

The Gus fight sealed it for me (for what I hope are obvious reasons), so it was a further 6 fights beyond Shogun before I accepted him as being a GSP/Silva/Fedor-level guy, rather than just a top 15 all-time kind of guy.

And after Gus he fought a better version of Rampage (Glover), Cormier who is a super legit champ, OSP who was outmatched but phenomenally dangerous and at his absolute peak, and then the best performance of his career taking out Cormier the second time, which clearly blows away anybody else's resume, and may stand forever.

I think he owes a lot to Cormier in terms of how long his legacy may last. It's probably going to be a while, if ever that a LHW will get to say they beat a guy who was undefeated a HW like Cormier. There always were the calls for Jones to move up but Cormier kinda makes that less important now imo.

 

[Ruprecht]

I think he owes a lot to Cormier in terms of how long his legacy may last. It's probably going to be a while, if ever that a LHW will get to say they beat a guy who was undefeated a HW like Cormier. There always were the calls for Jones to move up but Cormier kinda makes that less important now imo.

I don't know, is there a bigger fight for him than fighting DC again at HW?

 

[waiguoren]

Unless it's public info/links etc, yes

I'm not going to bicker about this because there is a power discrepancy and I do want to keep my account. Suffice it to say I think your reasoning is bonkers.

 

[Fawlty]

I think he owes a lot to Cormier in terms of how long his legacy may last. It's probably going to be a while, if ever that a LHW will get to say they beat a guy who was undefeated a HW like Cormier. There always were the calls for Jones to move up but Cormier kinda makes that less important now imo.

It kind of does make the HW question for Jones less important, and maybe Cormier's win over Stipe adds to that? I would still like to see Jones take on the guys in his now-natural weight class before he retires. Can we arrange it so Cormier doesn't have to get brutalized again?

 

[Lead]

I don't know, is there a bigger fight for him than fighting DC again at HW?

Neither of them want a third fight at HW if it happens for different reasons. I really don't see how the difference would change the outcome of the fight. I think it could benefit Jones as much as DC, if not more.

 

[Ruprecht]

I'm not going to bicker about this because there is a power discrepancy and I do want to keep my account. Suffice it to say I think your reasoning is bonkers.

I'm not sure how you could have been here since 2009 and not be aware that it's always been the rule.

 

[Ruprecht]

Neither of them want a third fight at HW if it happens for different reasons. I really don't see how the difference would change the outcome of the fight. I think it could benefit Jones as much as DC, if not more.

Yeah, I think it would be a big ask for DC, but I still think it's the biggest fight Jones could make at the moment. Secondary would be a rematch with Gustaffson, and perhaps a new challenger like Reyes if he keeps rising through the ranks.

 

[waiguoren]

I'm not sure how you could have been here since 2009 and not be aware that it's always been the rule.

I've been here since 2005.

I was unaware that Sherdog had "private subforums". The Sherdog rules do not mention it, and I could not have known that Fawlty's post containing Fawlty's selfie was "private info". It looked exactly like a normal post of Fawlty's. Surely normal posts are "public info"?