War Room Lounge v153: Without Floyd it's an amazing sport.

[Andy Capp]

So let's say you have two randomly selected people, one has a body fat percentage of 15, and the other has a body fat percentage of 30, which do you think will more likely have weight related health comorbidities?

You're begging the question while side-stepping the point we both already made.

Does the fact that an unfit fat person is likely to also suffer health consequences as a result mean that's true of all fat people? That the answer is no is my point. Well, that and it is well understood now that many causes of obesity are out of the control of the person; it may not be a predictor of poor health in all cases.

Now, don't get me wrong. I was quite derisive toward fat people in the past so I'm no saint in that respect but my position has evolved given the current scientific understanding of the reasons people get fat an stay fat.

 

[Gandhi]

So uh

Apparently they rename genes

Like SEPT1

Because.... Excel always thinks this is a data entry


https://www.heise.de/news/Von-Excel...ewandelt-Dutzende-Gene-umbenannt-4864993.html (German)

<{CMPALM}>

umm wat, you mean like converts to a date?

 

[Grant Me Revenge]

@PolishHeadlock2 Peterson caught the Rona at the reprogramming ... er I mean Russian medical centre?
Must have forgot to make his bed.

 

[JDragon]

umm wat, you mean like converts to a date?

Yes


So instead of fixing Excel or getting rid of it, they rename the genes

 

[Gandhi]

Oh and you can’t knock boxing, it’s one of the key 4 pillars of MMMa. It’s light years ahead of all the point shit coming out of Asia (yes some karate and MT / related stuff exempt).

Also without it all we would have is lunge punches and MT thud/tap to set up leg kick. Need white man boxing to have good punch.

 

[skysolo]

A song of you
(A song of you)
Comes as sweet and clear
As moonlight through the pines

 

[Gandhi]

Yes


So instead of fixing Excel or getting rid of it, they rename the genes

excell recognizes gene names, or the science people did it?

 

[Gregolian]

I hate open ended work related emails from supervisors.

"I was hoping we could have a virtual team meeting tomorrow with everyone on support staff. There is one issue I'd like to get your input on"

Now, if someone was being laid off or fired deep down I know that the talk would be likely one on one. Same with if someone was being moved teams. I still hate that "one issue" sort of shit.

It's like when I got called in for my end of year review:
"When you have time I was hoping to speak with you in my office"

Pretty sure when I got that email initially my blood pressure went up and remained up for awhile.

 

[Prokofievian]

You're begging the question while side-stepping the point we both already made.

How is asking a question begging the question? Lol.

Does the fact that an unfit fat person is likely to also suffer health consequences as a result mean that's true of all fat people? That the answer is no is my point. Well, that and it is well understood now that many causes of obesity are out of the control of the person; it may not be a predictor of poor health in all cases.

Now, don't get me wrong. I was quite derisive toward fat people in the past so I'm no saint in that respect but my position has evolved given the current scientific understanding of the reasons people get fat an stay fat.

I ask the question to get at the strongest claim that can be made about weight and its relation to health. It's of course not true that someone who is skinnier is healthier than someone who is fatter in every single case. Here's a hypothetical proof of that fact: take someone who is type II diabetic, and starve them for a couple days. They will be less fat, but they'll have the exact same health problems as before. Take two people, one with congenital heart failure and x% body fat, and someone with a normal functioning heart and x+1% bodyfat. Is the thinner one healthier? It's trivial to concoct as many examples as you like. Someone with 0% bodyfat is dead, and therefore not healthy.

But just because the strongest possible claim about weight and its effects on health is not true does not mean that very strong claims about weight and health can't be made. This is why we talk about distributions, quantiles, population level data etc. So while it might not be true that the fatter person is less fit in every single case, it's probably true in most cases.

And people are fat because they don't have the mental strength to not be fat, end of story. There's a lot to unpack in that statement, and you'll probably infer the wrong thing from it, i.e. that I'm assassinating their character, or that I'm claiming that every obese person is of low moral character. But that's not the case. What is true is that, for whatever reason, they cannot muster the mental strength to take control of their bodies. It may be a monumental task, sure, but it's always doable.

 

[AnGrYcRoW]

What's with people begging for free plat accounts all the time ?

Is this the Sherdog equivalent of panhandling ?

 

[Gregolian]

What's with people begging for free plat accounts all the time ?

Is this the Sherdog equivalent of panhandling ?

Sherdog Welfare.

 

[Gandhi]

And people are fat because they don't have the mental strength to not be fat, end of story.

People that don’t bench two plates don’t have the mental strength to do so.

That’s probably also true for most men but it’s not very meaningful. I am exaggerating of course but point is there are a significant quantum of “fat” people that eat way better than the average person and exercise way more. Could they get skinny if they went to extreme heroic measures? Some could, but they are still way out doing the average.

What you are saying is of course on average, correct, but there is enough variability out there that one should not walk down the street and make any assumptions on an individual basis. Genetics play such a massive role, we all know bjj black belts, advances mountain climbers, etc. that eat well but just can’t make huge progress on their body types.

 

[Sketch]

Oh and you can’t knock boxing, it’s one of the key 4 pillars of MMMa. It’s light years ahead of all the point shit coming out of Asia (yes some karate and MT / related stuff exempt).

Also without it all we would have is lunge punches and MT thud/tap to set up leg kick. Need white man boxing to have good punch.

Boxing is a staple to be competitive along with wrestling. Those two > anything else. Boxing is also the best street fighting art which is what really matters anyway.

 

[Lead]

Why do you get to call them unfit? Just breaking balls here but, Yeah, like sumo wrestlers, there are plenty of fat people that exercise a lot and they tend not to show the negative health effects of obesity you see in sedentary people of any BMI.

Of course having extra weight you don't need is an encumbrance but it doesn't mean they're unhealthy. Just sayin'.

There isn’t really a technical term for fit but I’m saying it in the sense that carrying around excessive extra fat isn’t healthy for you. There are other things that make you unhealthy so it doesn’t mean they would be completely healthy losing it all but they would be in a better place certainly.

Also, that sumo wrestler example isn’t a good one. Being that fat does do damage to their body.

Sumo wrestlers have a life expectancy between 60 and 65, more than 10 yearsshorter than the average Japanese male, as the diet and sport take a toll on the wrestler's body.

I’d like to see the average lifespan of an Olympic wrestler but i feel pretty confident it’s higher.

wait I thought you were really fat just recently ?

I was 25 lbs overweight; 15 now. From that experience, I can say the difference of having the extra fat vs not is clear I wouldn’t want the fat. The people I’m mentioning are far past 25lbs overweight. Like they could probably lose 80lbs or more. The one guy I saw who lost a bunch said it was 40lbs.

 

[Prokofievian]

Boxing is a staple to be competitive along with wrestling. Those two > anything else. Boxing is also the best street fighting art which is what really matters anyway.

Gonna mix in some boxing and wrestling when I get to Helsinki. Not to take them up as sports but just to be able to reliably get a fight to the ground without getting blasted.

At the last jiu jitsu gym I trained at they had a striking class and that was pretty fun the few times I went. But ultimately it wasn't a very safe environment. No headgear, people just blasting each other the whole time. The instructor himself was throwing huge bombs. He connected with a few and it was enough to persuade me not to come back.

 

[Gandhi]

Boxing is a staple to be competitive along with wrestling. Those two > anything else. Boxing is also the best street fighting art which is what really matters anyway.

Well as a kick boxing / bjj guy I am going to have to argue this just on principal.

But I agree that the boxer/wrestler combo is lethal. Imagine if Severn with even his crappy hand slaps had decided to not to take Royce down?

Of course the wrestler / boxer has to learn GNP and sub defense to be effective. Also everything has diminishing returns, so the fighter that adds a full MT set of stand up and submission is going to quickly outpace a fighter that only does boxing/wrestling.

In the cage a boxer wrestler loses to the bjj/kickboxer if it’s like pure, no cross training. A minimal amount of sub defense and gnp and I go to the boxer/wrestler. It’s just easier to fight front the top and wrestlers decide where the fight goes. A wrestler with only a little boxing mashes any other single style.

For the streets the most effective combo is MT/Judo. You need to be able to handle the clinch and not go the ground and you get a bit of everything with those two.

 

[My Spot]

It’s too bad MMA wasn’t a thing back in Danny Hodge’s day.

 

[Gandhi]

Gonna mix in some boxing and wrestling when I get to Helsinki. Not to take them up as sports but just to be able to reliably get a fight to the ground without getting blasted.

At the last jiu jitsu gym I trained at they had a striking class and that was pretty fun the few times I went. But ultimately it wasn't a very safe environment. No headgear, people just blasting each other the whole time. The instructor himself was throwing huge bombs. He connected with a few and it was enough to persuade me not to come back.

That sounds retarded.

My last time sparring I was lightly piecing out this younger guy and he started throwing bombs. In the last 30 seconds I started chasing him down and going for it. I was messing him up and the bell rang. My adrenaline was up high and felt like I had just been in a real fight. I was like “I’m getting to old for this shit”.

 

[Lead]

People that don’t bench two plates don’t have the mental strength to do so.

That’s probably also true for most men but it’s not very meaningful. I am exaggerating of course but point is there are a significant quantum of “fat” people that eat way better than the average person and exercise way more. Could they get skinny if they went to extreme heroic measures? Some could, but they are still way out doing the average.

What you are saying is of course on average, correct, but there is enough variability out there that one should not walk down the street and make any assumptions on an individual basis. Genetics play such a massive role, we all know bjj black belts, advances mountain climbers, etc. that eat well but just can’t make huge progress on their body types.

Just to be clear, my conversation wasn’t meant to attack those people at my gym. I was merely noting how surprising it was that I see them frequently and the weight hasn’t come off so I know they are putting in the work but their body isn’t burning the weight as easily or/ and their diets may be different. I’m not for judging a person who is overweight as lazy and my experience noted there would prove that. On the other hand, I don’t think carrying that additional amount of weight long term is good for them. The two things aren’t in conflict.

 

[Prokofievian]

People that don’t bench two plates don’t have the mental strength to do so.

Hey....Hey.

That’s probably also true for most men but it’s not very meaningful. I am exaggerating of course but point is there are a significant quantum of “fat” people that eat way better than the average person and exercise way more. Could they get skinny if they went to extreme heroic measures? Some could, but they are still way out doing the average.

What you are saying is of course on average, correct, but there is enough variability out there that one should not walk down the street and make any assumptions on an individual basis. Genetics play such a massive role, we all know bjj black belts, advances mountain climbers, etc. that eat well but just can’t make huge progress on their body types.

If you took an average Canadian baby, and raised them in the Netherlands, they would, on average, turn out to have about 4% less body fat. The average Dutch person is not more morally good than the average Canadian, but the fact remains that the average Canadian could live like the average Dutchie and end up substantially less fat. It's just that the way we live in Canada is more conducive to being fat. So when people do the normal thing in both countries, it leads to worse results in one place than the other.

A personal anecdote, when my parents moved from Calgary back to the mountains they both lost a huge amount of weight. Same people, so not really a moral or character thing. But, they could have done more or less the same things in Calgary as they're doing now. They didn't, because living in Calgary sucks dick and sometimes you just need a bearclaw to make it through the day.

Everyone can make substantial progress on their weight and the only extreme measures that need to be taken would be a low calorie diet (defined as less than 800 per day) in the case where the person is so heavy that doctors determine that every minute the person is at their weight is a threat to their life. Otherwise it's just the thing that you would do if you were to approach the problem like a scientist or an engineer. It's not hard, but you need to know what you're doing.