War Room Lounge v152: Putting your back out for a few days just from bending over. Good times.

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Fawlty

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Cheers to @Andy Capp for the thread title

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Mod Note: This thread is for general conversation and any other conversations to avoid derails in regular threads. If you find yourself going off topic in a thread, please quote the person's post, come in here, click "insert quote" and continue on in here. This is also still the War Room. Do not expect OT/Bare Knuckles rules in here.
 
Getting old is essentially having to do a bunch of stuff you've already done before, but with back pain.
The guy's I graduated with that went into the military when I've hung out with them for like camping trips at music festivals and shit. Listening to them getting up in the morning:
"Motherfucker... I need an air mattress"

Next year with the air mattress:
"Fuck, this still sucks.... Trailer next time"

The next year when they're in even a small pop up trailer:
"Alright, fuck this bullshit..."
 
Repeated:

Despite years of Donald Trump's un-presidential, perhaps even criminal behavior, many, if not most of his supporters remain unable and/or unwilling to recognize and condemn his flawed character and incompetence while continuing to maintain their "justifiable outrage" at being deemed "deplorables" by Hillary Clinton. Yet, though I have to admit moments of profound frustration and disillusionment, I am committed to remaining optimistic (at least somewhat), to looking for the best in people, and embracing the Socratic thesis that no human being does wrong intentionally but rather, as a consequence of ignorance or misinformation.

As a philosopher in the Socratic tradition and educator, I recognize and accept my responsibility to engage in discussion with people of diverse social and political positions, the purpose of which is not to win arguments or to persuade others of my point of view, but rather, through give and take—dialectic—to seek truth from which we all can benefit. Such a process, to be successful, requires that interlocutors have an open mind, that they be free (as much as humanly possible) of bias and prejudice, that they be willing to LISTEN, to use and to follow reason, and, most importantly, to go wherever the argument leads.

Sadly, in political discussions with ardent Trump supporters, I have, in the vast majority of cases, found them unwilling and/or incapable, for whatever the reason, of engaging honestly and sincerely in such a process. When presented with information substantiating Donald Trump's incompetent, vile, and erratic behavior, a common reaction has been to dismiss such occurrences as "fake news." Even when confronted with Trump's own words and video of his actions ("pussy" talk, demeaning the disabled, engaging prostitutes, making unsubstantiated accusations against victims of police brutality, etc.), they ignore it completely, characterize it as "a regurgitation of ad hominem attacks," something of which I have been personally accused, and/or excuse it by claiming that no one is perfect. Trump himself has arrogantly boasted about his Svengali influence over, and hence the "loyalty" of his supporters, when he noted that he could shoot someone in the middle of 5th Avenue and not lose voters.





These "supporters," while claiming to be patriots and good Christians, are so stubbornly committed to Trump, that they are quick to demean any government/military official or religious leader, even former Trump officials and the Pope, who felt morally and patriotically compelled to speak truth to power. Even what has traditionally been regarded as the most sacrosanct of government agencies such as the FBI, CIA, and other intelligence agencies, in doing their job, have been discredited as agents of the deep state engaged in some conspiracy to "dethrone" him from power.

I am confident that these observations regarding Trump supporters are not, as some have accused me, the consequence of political bias or an academic elitism. Nor am I trying to convince those who may have a different political/moral opinion that mine is the only correct way of thinking. Rather, my argument expresses my disappointment and dismay that otherwise seemingly intelligent and sincere individuals have, at least in the vast majority of cases, for reasons I have yet to understand, been so mesmerized by Trump and rendered incapable of critical thought, that they continue to enthusiastically support him even as he continues to make scientifically unsubstantiated claims about the deadly pandemic or boasts about shooting someone in the middle of Fifth Avenue.

While I will not allow our differences and my frustration to morph into disgust even hatred, sadly, my philosophical patience has been depleted, and I will no longer engage such individuals as continued dialogue is futile. As a consequence of this experience, however, I am inclined, sadly, to question the validity of Socrates' intuition about humankind, possibly even my decision to dismiss Clinton's characterization of Trump's supporters.

https://www.commondreams.org/views/2020/08/02/futile-dialogue-what-would-socrates-do

Yeah, the problem is that not everyone is playing the same game. Some people recognize that their perceptions don't necessarily or even usually reflect objective reality and thus that we should rely on tools like logic, and systematic data collection, and rules for processing data, etc. That same thinking can be applied to the moral realm. "My ancestors taught me to only eat after the sun drops on a night with a full moon, but Zog says that it is wicked to eat at that hour." Some people are going to be confronted with that and think, "We should kill Zog to suppress his evil doctrine," and others think, "hmm, maybe Zog is right. How do we know?"

On a message board, there's no killing, but I think the idea is the same. No one actually thinks that it's objectively true that, say, Trump had any positive impact on the economy, but they think that asserting it gives their tribe power. And if you say, "well, it's look at what actions he has taken that might be expected to impact the economy (that is, let's consider the possibility that both claims might be true but one is closer to the truth)," and you then conclude that, no, he didn't, people in the first group just see it as a fancier way of trying to enhance the power of your tribe. The two mindsets aren't fundamentally incompatible. That doesn't apply to all Trump supporters, and obviously not all opponents think like that, but that kind of discussion comes up a lot.
 
This pandemic is so unbelievably dull, probably the most boring disease out there.
This just frustrates me even more as it's given me time to watch the government actually work and God is it frustrating.
 
Put your back where ? How can you put your back somewhere? I’m so confused I’ve just pulled my back
 
Hasn't been boring for me. Maybe the people in your life haven't been close enough to dying from it. Don't be jealous.
I worry about my folks given they're traveling from WA to UT at the end of the week and stopping at least once in Pendleton for a night and maybe another night someplace in Idaho.

I offered to get them dinner to go from a teriyaki place for their dinner their first full night here and my dad was like:
"Thank you but let's hold off on concretely doing that until we know more about COVID numbers and shit to be safe"
 
Getting old is essentially having to do a bunch of stuff you've already done before, but with back pain.

With everything pain, actually.

@Prokofievian , @Jesus H. Sherdog and any other meathead bros, enjoy lifting with relatively little pain while you can. I'm not even 40 and there's just no end to the string of aches, pains, and injuries from the gym. And it gets slowly worse every year.

Both knees, both groins, elbows, shoulder, you name it. My wrist and my toes are the only things that don't hurt at this point. For some damn reason, even the back of my knee started hurting bad a while back. WTF?? I didn't even know there was anything that could hurt back there.

Rough times

<Prem974>
 
Ahh I see what you mean. I actually had that revelation around the same time. Probably 24/25 (this intersects my post to @Gregolian because it was the mushrooms that did it). I thought you were talking about the internalization of death. Intellectually I always understood that I was going to die one day. But it wasn't until about 31 that the door in my brain really opened, and it was no longer a theoretical concept. It's something I actively think about when making decisions. Decisions like when a bartender asks "would you like another?" or "how much insurance would you like?" In my 20's, the respective answers would've been "yes" and "no". Now they're swapped.
This hit me a bit when I was setting up my benefits for my new job last year.

I had taken out the max for retirement at my job before and the minimum life insurance just cause "that's what people do."

This time when I was setting up benefits?.... I OPTED IN for an HSA, I opted in for a second tier life insurance through my employer AS WELL AS through State Farm when I transferred my car insurance, I opted in to a legal defense shield deduction and other shit because "if an emergency happens I will need help" mentality rather than the "nah, it won't happen to me".

I know now too whenever something feels weird on my body I look up the symptoms and shit nowadays to double check and make sure it's not something catastrophic.
 
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