War Room Lounge v148: all tip and no shaft

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Sara said:
I’ll take it under advisement

did Greg have any great one liners? He may need to moral boost more than Tonni
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what is your strange mothering interest with greg?
 
Lead said:
In MMA, I could see it being possible when someone debuts in a big promotion but even then, it would be super hard to distinguish at that time if they did choke which again makes it pointless to use. I only watch MMA and football. I would say football uses clutch more than choked but that might just be them not trying to insult a player having a bad game.
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In MMA it gets magnified because fighters will sometimes embrace those kinds of explanations for why they lost.

"I just wasn't myself in there!"

No, you just can't defend a double/cut the cage/move your head etc. Barao really bought into "I-I was rocked!" excuse for his first TJ fight even though his best round in that fight was the 2nd round, the round right after he got rocked. So if anything he fought better on autopilot. Kind of off topic but it was crazy to see him drop off so hard the way he did. Has the UFC record for longest win streak at BW(7), won four title fights, and was considered top 5 p4p then goes 2-8 in his next ten bouts. Something had to happen there. I think his boxing got exposed but could also be a combination of USADA and a loss of confidence due to going from the top of the sport to getting wrecked twice.
 
Lead said:
Yea, I suppose we are saying similar things. I’m just saying if a player already handles situations well, then in those moments people consider clutch/choke, they are nearly experiencing the same performance they see throughout the game and just focusing on a part they find important. I think football allows for the illusion far more because you’ll get a present type defense if the other team needs to march down the field and get a touchdown. People think the QB is running up a huge streak all of the sudden to win the game but part of that is the other teams awareness of not giving up the big play.
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I think it might be a binary thing. Everyone knows of low-level athletes who really do choke and others who don't. Could be that choke-prone types either never make it to the highest levels or get enough experience in nerve-wracking situations that they are immune.

Also, though, I don't know if it's reasonable to assume that the same objective conditions should be expected to produce the same subjective experience. One day, someone might be up in the bottom of the ninth with two on, trailing by one and be nervous; and another day, in the same scenario, he might be totally calm. And maybe one day, nervousness makes him focus more, and another day, it makes him overly self-conscious.

Related, here's a great essay by DFW on Tracy Austin:

https://sites.psu.edu/kingsel/files/2016/08/DFW-How-Tracy-Austin-Broke-My-Heart-1994-1lctx91.pdf

I'll quote the end, but I recommend the whole thing:

This is, for me, the real mystery--whether such a person is an idiot or a mystic or both and/or neither. The only certainty seems to be that such a person does not produce a very good prose memoir. That plain empirical fact may be the best way to explain how Tracy Austin's actual history can be so compelling and important and her verbal account of that history not even alive. It may also, in starting to address the differences in communicability between thinking and doing and between doing and being, yield the key to why top athletes' autobiographies are at once so seductive and so disappointing for us readers. As is so often SOP with the truth, there's a cruel paradox involved. It may well be that we spectators, who are not divinely gifted as athletes, are the only ones able truly to see, articulate, and animate the experience of the gift we are denied. And that those who receive and act out the gift of athletic genius must, perforce, be blind and dumb about it--and not because blindness and dumbness are the price of the gift, but because they are its essence.
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Gregolian said:
That part doesn’t actually bother me a ton but the way the 47 Robin movie had a very Chinese aesthetic to the castles and shit bothered me.

Same with that Great Wall movie with Matt Damon saving the day.
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I was always surprised that him and Affleck didn't seem to catch much flak for being Harvey's boys
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Lead said:
Closest thing I’d replace it with is something like game management cause people usually associate it with a comeback or making a play when it’s needed. Do you believe choking is something? Because if so, I’d say clutch is simply the absence of choking.
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I think it's more than that. I think it's a way of redirecting pressure that would make other people choke, enhancing your performance instead out of fear of letting down other people. In other words, it's not ignoring outside pressure, it's being aware of it just like people who choke are aware of it, but getting a positive effect from it instead of a negative. Fedor, for example, seemed to just ignore everything around him stoically, but to me that's not the same as someone like GSP, who appeared to thrive off the fear of failure to perform at his peak. I'd refer you to the second and third rounds of the Penn vs. GSP fight for an example.
 
Andy Capp said:
I think it's more than that. I think it's a way of redirecting pressure that would make other people choke, enhancing your performance instead out of fear of letting down other people. In other words, it's not ignoring outside pressure, it's being aware of it just like people who choke are aware of it, but getting a positive effect from it instead of a negative. Fedor, for example, seemed to just ignore everything around him stoically, but to me that's not the same as someone like GSP, who appeared to thrive off the fear of failure to perform at his peak. I'd refer you to the second and third rounds of the Penn vs. GSP fight for an example.
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If we are using Pierre here, that first fight with Hughes is always narrated as him being too nervous and respecting him too much. There’s definitely something with how people handle pressure. It’s just at a certain level, I find it hard to believe it flairs itself up if the person has already been able to handle it getting to that level in the first place like Jack mentioned. All of sport is decisions and I suppose that’s why people like to dwell on the psychology of it but I think we over complicate it, especially in MMA.
 
Sara said:
It’s to be determined, I mean there’s so much uncertainty in the world now why rush?
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The people need leadership and thread titles in these uncertain times
 
Lead said:
If we are using Pierre here, that first fight with Hughes is always narrated as him being too nervous and respecting him too much. There’s definitely something with how people handle pressure. It’s just at a certain level, I find it hard to believe it flairs itself up if the person has already been able to handle it getting to that level in the first place like Jack mentioned. All of sport is decisions and I suppose that’s why people like to dwell on the psychology of it but I think we over complicate it, especially in MMA.
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I am not sure if I believe GSP. Tbh he looked good even in the first fight, I just think he got a little too careless towards the end of the round and started to relax waiting for the buzzer and gave Hughes the opportunity to get the finish.

He has said that the only fight he wasn't nervous for was the first Serra fight.
 
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