Social War Room Lounge 318: Propaganda Extravaganza

[Jack V Savage]

What do you dispute?

 

[irish_thug]

It wasn't mine and it wasn't bogged in racial superiority. It was a regular war room thread by a non carded poster about black youth violence. As you say - other the years ... Things change

Not allowing to talk about a subject will never help.

It might not be that the topic itself ist verboten. The majority of threads that get dumped from the war room are done because they do not meet the minimum requirements for War Room threads. Granted I did not see the thread in question, just the one you created about it.

 

[My Spot]

American politics maybe.
In the developed world you still tend to lose leadership, let alone an election, for demonstrably bad performance, and certainly for being wrong about something on the scale of WMDs in Iraq and the subsequent invasion.
Failing to abide by the principles of governance and recognise the outcome of an election is usually the hallmark of the second and third world. Seems Trump himself mistook his position as that of a failed dictator rather than a failed president. The fact that failed dictators rarely make it out alive should have clued him in.

Millions displaced in Iraq. Hundreds of thousands dead. Over 4000 dead Americans. Over a trillion spent. But if this is the hill you and @Andy Capp want to die on, well…

 

[Ruprecht]

Millions displaced in Iraq. Hundreds of thousands dead. Over 4000 dead Americans. Over a trillion spent. But if this is the hill you and @Andy Capp want to die on, well…

What?

 

[My Spot]

What?

Huh?

 

[Ruprecht]

Huh?

Your response makes no sense as a reply to my post. Were you responding to someone else?

 

[My Spot]

Your response makes no sense as a reply to mine.

 

[SakurabasEar]

Your response makes no sense as a reply to my post. Were you responding to someone else?

Your response was essentially that his administration wasn't worse, but more an extension of eroding democracy. But in the way that you worded it, it may have appeared to @My Spot the opposite.

I think

 

[My Spot]

Your response was essentially that his administration wasn't worse, but more an extension of eroding democracy. But in the way that you worded it, it may have appeared to @My Spot the opposite.

I think

I just don't see how "insurrection" is worse than being responsible for the invasion of Iraq.

 

[SakurabasEar]

I just don't see how "insurrection" is worse than being responsible for the invasion of Iraq.

I agree with you

 

[Ruprecht]

Your response was essentially that his administration wasn't worse, but more an extension of eroding democracy. But in the way that you worded it, it may have appeared to @My Spot the opposite.

I think

I spelt it out in clear English, "It wouldn't make Trump's actions to date worse on a global scale than those of Bush, but it would represent an even bigger failure of American democracy."

Failures of leadership and failure to hold leaders accountable for their failures are certainly poor representations of democracy in action, and undoubtably Bush's actions are worse either from an inherent ethical or consequentialist perspective, but failing to hold Trump accountable for acting against democratic rule is inimical to democracy itself and represents an even further degradation of American democracy than the basic lack of accountability on display.
This isn't inherent to politics or democracy, it's a failure of both leadership and the electorate.

 

[My Spot]

Who said anything about Bush? This is about Democrats choosing Biden in 2024 and 2020 and Hillary in 2016 who are both responsible for the invasion of Iraq.

 

[Ruprecht]

Who said anything about Bush? This is about Democrats choosing Biden in 2024 and 2020 and Hillary in 2016 who are both responsible for the invasion of Iraq.

Failing to make Clinton and Biden responsible for their vote in favour of giving Bush authorisation in 2002, is a lot further down the list of failures of accountability than reelecting Bush in 2004 when it was patently clear there were no WMDs in Iraq. That election demonstrated that the American electorate fails utterly to hold their politicians accountable.
Beyond that, Trump acted against the democratic process which put him in power in the first place. Failing to hold politicians accountable to the very system that empowers them isn't ethically, morally or consequentially worse than the invasion of Iraq, but it's an even further degradation of the basic function of democracy.

 

[SakurabasEar]

I spelt it out in clear English, "It wouldn't make Trump's actions to date worse on a global scale than those of Bush, but it would represent an even bigger failure of American democracy."

Failures of leadership and failure to hold leaders accountable for their failures are certainly poor representations of democracy in action, and undoubtably Bush's actions are worse either from an inherent ethical or consequentialist perspective, but failing to hold Trump accountable for acting against democratic rule is inimical to democracy itself and represents an even further degradation of American democracy than the basic lack of accountability on display.
This isn't inherent to politics or democracy, it's a failure of both leadership and the electorate.

I somewhat disagree, Trump has many court cases in motion at this time of writing, and in our system of course, you have to actually prove in court that he acted against democracy. And due to our system in the first place, never made it past January 6th. This is proof of our democracy working, at least for your example

Yet over 20 years later, nobody has been held accountable for an invasion of iraq predicated on a complete lie. Quite the opposite, bush got reelected and they tried to get her elected president later on

 

[My Spot]

Failing to make Clinton and Biden responsible for their vote in favour of giving Bush authorisation in 2002, is a lot further down the list of failures of accountability than reelecting Bush in 2004 when it was patently clear there were no WMDs in Iraq. That election demonstrated that the American electorate fails utterly to hold their politicians accountable.
Beyond that, Trump acted against the democratic process which put him in power in the first place. Failing to hold politicians accountable to the very system that empowers them isn't ethically, morally or consequentially worse than the invasion of Iraq, but it's an even further degradation of the basic function of democracy.

But not further down than Trump's "insurrection" attempt. Especially since Dems could've went with Bernie in 2016 or Bernie or Warren in 2020.

 

[My Spot]

I somewhat disagree, Trump has many court cases in motion at this time of writing, and in our system of course, you have to actually prove in court that he acted against democracy. And due to our system in the first place, never made it past January 6th. This is proof of our democracy working, at least for your example

Yet over 20 years later, nobody has been held accountable for an invasion of iraq predicated on a complete lie. Quite the opposite, bush got reelected and they tried to get her elected president later on

Yep. You had Bernie in 2016 who didn't vote to invade Iraq yet Democrats chose Hillary. And again in 2020 and probably again next year.

 

[Ruprecht]

I somewhat disagree, Trump has many court cases in motion at this time of writing, and in our system of course, you have to actually prove in court that he acted against democracy. And due to our system in the first place, never made it past January 6th. This is proof of our democracy working, at least for your example

Yet over 20 years later, nobody has been held accountable for an invasion of iraq predicated on a complete lie. Quite the opposite, bush got reelected and they tried to get her elected president later on

Legally it may be in question, but we all saw his actions and those of his team and the laughable claims of voter fraud, so there can't be any honest dispute.
The fact that he could still be a Republican candidate is a democratic failure.
Yes, I don't believe Americans actually hold your politicians accountable, and now that you're all apparently voting based on identity politics it's even less likely.
I'm not surprised, but you can't claim it represents anything but the further deterioration of your democracy. In fact that would be true even if Trump wasn't full of shit and in denial about losing the 2020 election.

 

[Joe]

I spelt it out in clear English, "It wouldn't make Trump's actions to date worse on a global scale than those of Bush, but it would represent an even bigger failure of American democracy."

Failures of leadership and failure to hold leaders accountable for their failures are certainly poor representations of democracy in action, and undoubtably Bush's actions are worse either from an inherent ethical or consequentialist perspective, but failing to hold Trump accountable for acting against democratic rule is inimical to democracy itself and represents an even further degradation of American democracy than the basic lack of accountability on display.
This isn't inherent to politics or democracy, it's a failure of both leadership and the electorate.

The right doesnt think trumps desperate attempts to remain president is anything to worry about or illegal. Like take the trying to use fake electors or pressuring officials to not certify the election. Theyve normalized it.

 

[EL CORINTHIAN]

I didn't see that in the bet thread. I only see my magnificent incoming victory in there, but even if he does leave, I win and his AV will forever be the shame I put there until the end of time.

Where is the bet thread? Didn't it used to be stickied?

 

[Yoricks Wisdom]

Newsom always trying to be edgy.

Gov. Gavin Newsom pans talk of banning Donald Trump from presidential race in California

Many California Democrats would ban Donald Trump from California's ballot. Gov. Gavin Newsom says voters should decide the contest.

www.latimes.com

Dude is irrepressible if nothing else.