Social War Room Lounge 318: Propaganda Extravaganza

[My Spot]

I don't see how "insurrection" (lol) is worse than invading Iraq, but maybe that's just me.

 

[HereticBD]

I don't see how "insurrection" (lol) is worse than invading Iraq, but maybe that's just me.

Or bombing an innocent family and calling them "ISIS masterminds" for momentary positive headlines, amidst a shit show of a withdrawal...

 

[Lead]

But if they don't want someone else, you want to tell them that they're wrong and bad. That's not how it works. If the people want Trump, the people get Trump. That's democracy.

Read the sig. Pluralism good, relativism bad. I’m not saying people can’t pick him in our system but I certainly am going to call it out for the bad idea it is. It might be democracy but heading toward an illiberal one if we inch closer to winner takes all games.

No it isn't. It's a real thing. Like safe suburbanites thinking that defunding the police is a good idea, because they don't have to deal with the fallout.

"Police are so bad!"

- Some fucking idiot who has never actually had to deal with real crime problems.

It's a privileged position. It's why most people in shit hole neighborhoods who actually live that shit day to day, want more police, not less.

I think your still missing the point. Liberalism is understanding the suburbanites defund the police idea is bad because defunding the police is bad, not because they are a suburbanite. There are suburbanites who take the right view to not defund. Their position isn’t invalidated due to their identity. The ideas rightness or wrongness are independent of that.


To pause here, both quotes above are pretty telling. 1. Majority is right because they are majority. 2. Specific identities are wrong because of their identity. Both illiberal ideas. These are hollow stances to avoid the actual idea.

Who is "we". People are not a monolith. Half the country votes against the President, and merely put up with it, if they're doing alright, regardless. That is the only thing keeping democracy alive, and certainly American democracy. If most people are happy, it works. If one side feels that they're getting the shaft, it don't.

If you think that's gonna continue for thousands of years, you're wrong. Certainly not in a democratic society, where people get to choose their leaders. Odds are, eventually systems are gonna collapse in the goal of trying to please everyone(with favoritism to one side of course), and if it gets hairy, like it is, they'll look for someone to crush what is killing them. Might be short sighted, but it is what it is.

Thousands of years? You’re embellishing a lot to hide how bad your premise is. I don’t know how long America, democracy or Liberalism will last but I certainly want to uphold it during my lifetime and hopefully enough that the next generation has a chance of it too. If you are just supporting some political nihilism, go ahead but dont expect me to jump on board. These ideas are worth preserving over what you are proposing here. I mean ffs, idealizing basic American values is pearl clutching while letting the guy who wants to overthrow elections is some noble idea to help the poor, good lord. It really isn’t worth it to compromise on so many basic things just to defend Trump at this point. It’s a political sink cost, man.

 

[Lead]

“A democracy, if you can keep it… or just throw all that out because you think the economy isn’t stellar this term.”

-Allegedly Ben Franklin

 

[Lead]

“The greatest danger to poor people is a government that upholds the Constitution”

-Allegedly Thomas Jefferson

 

[Lead]

“The only maxim of a free government ought to be to trust no man living with power to endanger the public liberty, except Donald Trump because poverty or something.”

-Allegedly John Adams

 

[My Spot]

"Fuck America."

-Allegedly the average Iraqi

 

[Poon Goon]

"Fuck America."

-Allegedly the average Iraqi

Average Iraqi speaks Mesopotamian Arabic so it would probably be

"تبا لأمريكا"

You're welcome

 

[HereticBD]

I think your still missing the point. Liberalism is understanding the suburbanites defund the police idea is bad because defunding the police is bad, not because they are a suburbanite. There are suburbanites who take the right view to not defund. Their position isn’t invalidated due to their identity. The ideas rightness or wrongness are independent of that.

I think you're missing the point here, in that some bad ideas are propped up by privileged people who don't have to deal with the fallout of their bad ideas. That's the privilege. Telling people who are struggling under Biden to vote for him, to..."save democracy", or "save the soul of America" or whatever bumper sticker talking point, is a privileged position, because you don't give a fuck about what those people are feeling, and you want to use them to make yourself feel righteous.

To pause here, both quotes above are pretty telling. 1. Majority is right because they are majority. 2. Specific identities are wrong because of their identity. Both illiberal ideas. These are hollow stances to avoid the actual idea.

Calling anything shot down by the majority an "idea", is usually used as an excuse to give them validity. Same with "We need to have a conversation about...flat Earth"

Not that it's a catch all, but no, we don't need to run experiments on what are universally terrible stances. Trump being President, doesn't fit the same mold as "Less Police will lead to less crime".

These ideas are worth preserving over what you are proposing here. I mean ffs, idealizing basic American values is pearl clutching while letting the guy who wants to overthrow elections is some noble idea to help the poor, good lord. It really isn’t worth it to compromise on so many basic things just to defend Trump at this point. It’s a political sink cost, man.

What exactly are "Basic American Values"? The stuff you agree with, or the stuff you don't? There's a whole lot of wiggle room there, and some(a lot actually) would argue that Trump is trying to uphold this mythical standard of "American values", while you are trying to tear them down. Who's right? You of course.

 

[idrankyourbeer]

there's a twitter account that is dedicated to sharing videos of waffle house fights and brawls lol

https://twitter.com/whfights

i guess its a common occurance over there.

 

[Ruprecht]

I don't see how "insurrection" (lol) is worse than invading Iraq, but maybe that's just me.

I think voting Bush in twice despite there being no weapons of mass destruction demonstrates an utter failure of American democracy to demand any accountability of it's elected leaders what so ever.
However voting Trump back in after he demonstrated complete disregard for American democracy altogether, presumably because he panders to the right identity politics, would still be an even further degradation of an institution which America used to champion as it's raison d'etre.
It wouldn't make Trump's actions to date worse on a global scale than those of Bush, but it would represent an even bigger failure of American democracy.
Of course I wouldn't be that surprised, because the evidence that a significant number of Americans no longer believe in or care about democracy is pretty self evident.
...and globally no one in their right mind would consider the current state of American democracy as something positive to emulate.

 

[My Spot]

I think voting Bush in twice despite there being no weapons of mass destruction demonstrates an utter failure of American democracy to demand any accountability of it's elected leaders what so ever.
However voting Trump back in after he demonstrated complete disregard for American democracy altogether, presumably because he panders to the right identity politics, would still be an even further degradation of an institution which America used to champion as it's raison d'etre.
It wouldn't make Trump's actions to date worse on a global scale than those of Bush, but it would represent an even bigger failure of American democracy.
Of course I wouldn't be that surprised, because the evidence that a significant number of Americans no longer believe in or care about democracy is pretty self evident.
...and globally no one in their right mind would consider the current state of American democracy as something positive to emulate.

A significant amount number of Americans stopped caring about the invasion of Iraq and will vote for Biden again after choosing him in 2020 and choosing Hillary in 2016. Welcome to politics.

 

[panem-et-circenses]

@AngryWeasel they keep dumping your threads, but you can complain in here. For the record, I made an anti-racist thread using a recently (at the time) published study from an academic journal that was dumped. Not sure what your race thread was about, but I think getting beyond normal race relations stuff — a lot of which is allowed here, just check out all the race threads over the year — and getting bogged down in ‘science of superiority’ will automatically get your thread dumped.

 

[AngryWeasel]

@AngryWeasel they keep dumping your threads, but you can complain in here. For the record, I made an anti-racist thread using a recently (at the time) published study from an academic journal that was dumped. Not sure what your race thread was about, but I think getting beyond normal race relations stuff — a lot of which is allowed here, just check out all the race threads over the year — and getting bogged down in ‘science of superiority’ will automatically get your thread dumped.

It wasn't mine and it wasn't bogged in racial superiority. It was a regular war room thread by a non carded poster about black youth violence. As you say - other the years ... Things change

Not allowing to talk about a subject will never help.

 

[brothir]

I can only warn people against watching this young-yet-vicious land shark try to maim a naive person, unknowing of the incredible dangers this monster presents.

 

[SakurabasEar]

“The only maxim of a free government ought to be to trust no man living with power to endanger the public liberty, except Donald Trump because poverty or something.”

-Allegedly John Adams

"Hey girl.. herdy dur flerty floopin, I shmer der floomty. Yer shoopin flerpty dur."

-Swedish Chef

 

[Andy Capp]

I can only warn people against watching this young-yet-vicious land shark try to maim a naive person, unknowing of the incredible dangers this monster presents.

See your land shark and raise one sea hippo,

 

[lsa]

It wasn't mine and it wasn't bogged in racial superiority. It was a regular war room thread by a non carded poster about black youth violence. As you say - other the years ... Things change

Not allowing to talk about a subject will never help.

I think partly because that dude is a troll.
He got a thread hard deleted from on here.
Dude made some weird ass thread about how thinks his mother helped his sister kill her newborn baby, because they were applying for visa to the US. So a newborn would complicate things.

Dude is a known weirdo.

 

[Yehudim]

Sure, but by any measure, it's better now than it was before the pandemic. I don't get how we just ignore Trump dropping the ball there or give Biden zero credit for the turnaround (especially since no other developed country has done as well).

 

[Ruprecht]

A significant amount number of Americans stopped caring about the invasion of Iraq and will vote for Biden again after choosing him in 2020 and choosing Hillary in 2016. Welcome to politics.

American politics maybe.
In the developed world you still tend to lose leadership, let alone an election, for demonstrably bad performance, and certainly for being wrong about something on the scale of WMDs in Iraq and the subsequent invasion.
Failing to abide by the principles of governance and recognise the outcome of an election is usually the hallmark of the second and third world. Seems Trump himself mistook his position as that of a failed dictator rather than a failed president. The fact that failed dictators rarely make it out alive should have clued him in.