Wanderlei Silva gets lifetime ban

[SerrabyTKO]

Because Randy still COULD fight for the UFC. Wand now can not.

Wand can't because of his own transgressions, not the UFC, they have no fault here and therefore aren't violating the contract..

 

[ArkhamAsylum]

No precedence for this. Should have warned fighters that from now on if you refuse a test you will be banned for life. Should have banned Wand 2 years like Chael. They are setting an example with Wanderlei.

Again....no precedence. Overeem ran and got a 9 month suspension. That is it.

Bullshit decision. Give him 2 years (which is still harsh) at the most and then announce "From this day forward if you run you will have a lifetime ban"


Commission:

Commisioner to Overeem: Overeem, you ran but we like you and you are polite so you only get a 9 month ban.

Commisioner to Wanderlei: Wanderlei, even though there is no precedence we are giving you a lifetime ban for your 1st offense.

Bunch of clowns


Overeem actually ran twice and only got punished once for it (for 9 months)

This. The NSAC is in Dana's pocket. Remember when Big John went to commentate for Affliction? Dana got pissed about that, and immediately after the NSAC rejected his application for renewal of his ref license. Does denying the most experienced ref his license in Nevada make any sense to anyone?

Bunch of fucking shady crooks.

 

[aker2703]

I didn't get anything wrong at all.

I already posted that. Overeem bought himself a ton of time before taking the test. He claimed that his assistant didn't contact him until 3 days later. Then he waited 4 days before taking the test etc. The whole thing was a joke. He obviously waited until everything was out of his system.

He still ran. Wanderlei offered to take a test later too (like Overeem) but the commission didn't accept it (even though they did from Overeem)

Overeem never even got punished for his 1st offense. That is my point. NSAC handled these 2 same situations totally different

this is your error. Wand ran from the NSAC tester, he ran from a person who was there to test him. Overeem (whether you believe him or not) claimed to be on a plane when the NSAC informed his manager (by phone) that he needed to take a test. Was he negligent in how long it took him to take the test.....for me yes, but the NSAC accepted his testimony.

this is why they are different.

 

[Hans Gruber]

So far they're (Hans and the other guy) arguments fall to little more than "Hey they got it wrong for a guy I don't like, so THEY HAVE TO ALSO GET IT WRONG FOR THE GUY I DO LIKE OR ELSE CORRUPTION"

I like Overeem but that is besides the point. I think Overeem and Wanderlei should both be punished.

Also I believe in precedence and consistency. Before implementing lifetime bans for things that you previously gave 9 month suspensions for...there should be a warning that if you run you get a lifetime ban.

For example if someone got caught shoplifting and instead of fining them and putting them in jail for a year it was decided that they new punishment should be cutting off their hand with no prior warning that wouldn't be right would it?

 

[Kungpowking]

It's funny, I was always told, "It's better to refuse a drug test than to fail".

Apparently that's not the case.. Vitor fails a drug test and gets a title shot, Wand refuses and gets banned for life, logic at it's finest.

Its pretty absurd. The way MMA is handled in North America is god damn joke. Zuffa may have helped grow the sport.... but they also turned it into a POS business that is barley worth watching.

 

[SerrabyTKO]

If a commission tried that, the fighter would immediately cancel his fight and fight elsewhere.

Why do you think it would be different elsewhere? The ACs work together to insure that their rules are followed.

Also, the other commission would need authority to do that, which they likely do not have.

No they don't. They just need an agreement to cooperate.

 

[UL]

Hans is cool, we never agree but that's fine. The other guy (if you mean UL) well he is a welcher and a joke....so his opinion is irrelevant.

2? or 3?

because for a large amount of time you went around saying I welched your bet... though I've never had bet with you in the 1st place because I rarely do them.

Anyway I'll have my chance to pounce on you in the future when you make a poor post

Don't want to change what the thread is about

 

[kmeyers]

Wand can't because of his own transgressions, not the UFC, they have no fault here and therefore aren't violating the contract..

But if they can not legally offer him the fights left on his contract, that's a breach. They could do it, and wanted to do it with Randy, so they fought him and won. Wand is now banned. So they can't offer him fights if he wants them.

I don't know why you don't think there are time stipulations on contracts. You really think anyone would sign a 4 fight contract without any time frame involved. So UFC gives you a fight, you lose, they decide they don't like you, but don't want to lose you to another org, so they just shelve you for years without offering the rest of your fights?

No one would sign a contract like that. It doesn't make any sense and gives the fighter absolutely no power.

 

[Hans Gruber]

this is your error. Wand ran from the NSAC tester, he ran from a person who was there to test him. Overeem (whether you believe him or not) claimed to be on a plane when the NSAC informed his manager (by phone) that he needed to take a test. Was he negligent in how long it took him to take the test.....for me yes, but the NSAC accepted his testimony.

this is why they are different.

Overeem was in the room with the other fighters when they announced the tests and he ran off. Everyone else stayed and took the test

The commission treated the same situation totally different. It wasn't until Overeem ran a 2nd time that they even punished him with a small ban for 9 months. With a 2nd offense you would think they would see a pattern and give him a bigger punishment while looking at the 1st time he ran in a different light with the new information. It screams incompetence or corruption.

 

[king of theRing]

Go to one fc and get paid big bucks and treated with respect

 

[SerrabyTKO]

I like Overeem but that is besides the point. I think Overeem and Wanderlei should both be punished.

Also I believe in precedence and consistency. Before implementing lifetime bans for things that you previously gave 9 month suspensions for...there should be a warning that if you run you get a lifetime ban.

For example if someone got caught shoplifting and instead of fining them and putting them in jail for a year it was decided that they new punishment should be cutting off their hand with no prior warning that wouldn't be right would it?

The other guys got leaner sentences because they admitted to their crime, payed their fines and cooperated. That last one is the key. It is little different than a judge handing out a leaner sentence for a guilty plea. It saves the time and effort of everyone involved, and also incentivizes cooperation for those in the future.

Second of all everyone keeps throwing around the term lifetime ban. It's not your fault, just the fault of shoddy MMA journalism in general. It is an indefinite suspension, which is very different and not nearly as severe.

And third I believe Reem getting a slap on the wrist is a travesty. He should have gotten a similar punishment to Wand.

 

[TewPoint0]

Once they ban 5 to 10 fighters for life, I think the problem will start to fade

 

[giusti825]

Now find the paragraph that covers what happens when a fighter is under suspension and that should about cover it for you.

And also there is no time frame stipulated in the paragraph you posted. Just like I said.

EDIT: And refusing to comply with an Athletic commission fine would be counted as "refusing to participate" if Wand tries to take this to court.

Boom. Lawyered.

No it wouldnt. Failing to participate would be reusing to fight. the contract is for fighting in the ufc, not fine paying to the ACs.

 

[aker2703]

2? or 3?

because for a large amount of time you went around saying I welched your bet... though I've never had bet with you in the 1st place because I rarely do them.

Anyway I'll have my chance to pounce on you in the future when you make a poor post

Don't want to change what the thread is about

we had a AV bet for the Shogun/Chael fight, but before it even came to pass you admitted (not in a pm but a thread) that you had no intention to changing your AV if you lost. That fact that i came across your post (by luck) doesn't change the fact that you would have welched if I had not seen your post.

that with another poster (don't remember his name) told everybody you welched on his bet when we all thought you had been banned (pity they let you back).

 

[the can]

agree

 

[Super Beast]

poor wandy

 

[SerrabyTKO]

But if they can not legally offer him the fights left on his contract, that's a breach.

Ill say this one last time.

NO.

IT.

IS.

NOT.

The UFC are not in breach if Wand broke the rules and is suspended. There is literally no easier way I can explain this.

They could do it, and wanted to do it with Randy, so they fought him and won. Wand is now banned. So they can't offer him fights if he wants them.

They cannot offer him fights because he broke the rules and is not allowed to fight. It is Wand's fault, not theirs. Therefore they have no liability in this matter.

I don't know why you don't think there are time stipulations on contracts. You really think anyone would sign a 4 fight contract without any time frame involved. So UFC gives you a fight, you lose, they decide they don't like you, but don't want to lose you to another org, so they just shelve you for years without offering the rest of your fights?

No one would sign a contract like that. It doesn't make any sense and gives the fighter absolutely no power.

Here is the relevant paragraph of the UFC fighter contracts. Find the part where it mentions a timeframe.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...e-the-ufcs-top-secret-fighter-contract/page/4

 

[aker2703]

Overeem was in the room with the other fighters when they announced the tests and he ran off. Everyone else stayed and took the test

The commission treated the same situation totally different. It wasn't until Overeem ran a 2nd time that they even punished him with a small ban for 9 months. With a 2nd offense you would think they would see a pattern and give him a bigger punishment while looking at the 1st time he ran in a different light with the new information. It screams incompetence or corruption.

source on this. He was in the room when told they would test all the fighters (146) but my understanding was the pre 141 test was passed on to his manager (by phone) by Keith Kizer.

If you can prove me wrong, i will admit my mistake and agree that they are the same...but i doubt you will.

 

[Winston Wolf]

He is still under UFC contract. So NO, Bellator could not.

Contracts are made to be breached.

 

[threelions]

Does it matter? He retired and they have no power to force him to pay up. I'm pretty sure if he had wanted to continue to fight in the UFC the punishment would have been very different.