Vikings are the GOAT

I'd say the Mongols were the GOAT ancient warriors.

Vikings were closer to pirates than warriors if you ask me.

Yes I see your point but they did have military victories against nations / states :
- they did conquer almost all of England in the Viking age
- they were given Normandy by the French crown (in 918 I think)
- these Normands / Franco-Normands (hard to tell at this point if they were Vikings or French ; let's just say they were Normands) conquered England (around 1150-ish) and booted out the Anglo-Saxon aristocracy

So I guess they were a little more than pirates.
 
Semantics. You could just as easily turn that on it's head: the only reason the weak, genetically-inferior Romans were able to defeat Germans, Celts etc was by fighting in groups like cowards. Once they were forced out of their comfort zone, they were no match for real men.:)

What you call cowardice I call the triumph of intellect and civilization over brute force, emphasis on brute.

And the most telling thing is that the Germans probably agreed with me. They recognized Roman civilization as superior and spent the better part of a millennium and a half trying to become Romans.

Hell, even Hitler's pseudo-scientific bullshit glorifying an in-existent Germanic golden age didn't prevent him from modeling all of the aesthetics of his evil regime on the grandeur that was Rome.

Yes I see your point but they did have military victories against nations / states :
- they did conquer almost all of England in the Viking age
- they were given Normandy by the French crown (in 918 I think)
- these Normands / Franco-Normands (hard to tell at this point if they were Vikings or French ; let's just say they were Normands) conquered England (around 1150-ish) and booted out the Anglo-Saxon aristocracy

So I guess they were a little more than pirates.

The thing is, all your examples do nothing to reinforce the fact that the Vikings couldn't wait to shed their Norse culture and assimilate into the places they conquered.

In Normandy, Rus and Sicily they integrated so fully and so fast that within 2 or 3 generations you could hardly be able to tell their forefathers had been vikings. And in England they retained their individual identity a little longer but the Saxon culture was still so close to their own that it made no difference.
 
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What you call cowardice I call the triumph of intellect and civilization over brute force, emphasis on brute.

And the most telling thing is that the Germans probably agreed with me. They recognized Roman civilization as superior and spent the better part of a millennium and a half trying to become Romans.

Hell, even Hitler's pseudo-scientific bullshit glorifying an in-existent Germanic golden age didn't prevent him from modeling all of the aesthetics of his evil regime on the grandeur that was Rome.

Hitler may have thought so, but some of the Germans who did the actual fighting disagreed with him. I recall reading a quote attributed to a Waffen SS officer after he was captured by Allied forces, and questioned about the Axis Treaty,

"Italians! What was the Fuhrer thinking?":D

And, "intellect and civilisation" didn't help them much against my ancestors. The Romans won the first and only major battle against Scottish tribes easily. It wasn't even close. They no doubt expected the surviving tribesmen to bend the knee, as every other nation Rome had conquered before had done. Unfortunately, the Picts and Maetae hadn't read the script, and spent the next hundred years killing thousands of Romans in a guerrilla war that would have made Afghanistan look positively civilised by comparison.

The Romans regarded being attacked in the dead of night, or on ground that meant they could not fight as a cohesive unit, to be dashed unsporting. Barbarians were supposed to charge blindly against a Legion's shield wall in broad daylight and be slaughtered to the last man. Sneaking up on a chap in the dark and slitting his throat simply wasn't Playing the Game.

Eventually, the Romans got fed up pissing away lives and, far more importantly, money on a country with appalling weather, few natural resources and a population of howling barbarians who would ambush, rape and kill you, then take your head for a trophy(and that was just the Pictish women;)). The Romans went Full Game of Thrones, built the Walls and fucked off South.
 
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Hitler may have thought so, but some of the Germans who did the actual fighting disagreed with him. I recall reading a quote attributed to a Waffen SS officer after he was captured by Allied forces, and questioned about the Axis Treaty,

"Italians! What was the Fuhrer thinking?":D

And, "intellect and civilisation" didn't help them much against my ancestors. The Romans won the first and only major battle against Scottish tribes easily. It wasn't even close. They no doubt expected the surviving tribesmen to bend the knee, as every other nation Rome had conquered before had done. Unfortunately, the Picts and Maetae hadn't read the script, and spent the next hundred years killing thousands of Romans in a guerrilla war that would have made Afghanistan look positively civilised by comparison.

The Romans regarded being attacked in the dead of night, or on ground that meant they could not fight as a cohesive unit, to be dashed unsporting. Barbarians were supposed to charge blindly against a Legion's shield wall in broad daylight and be slaughtered to the last man. Sneaking up on a chap in the dark and slitting his throat simply wasn't Playing the Game.

Eventually, the Romans got fed up pissing away lives and, far more importantly, money on a country with appalling weather, few natural resources and a population of howling barbarians who would ambush, rape and kill you, then take your head for a trophy(and that was just the Pictish women;)). The Romans went Full Game of Thrones, built the Walls and fucked off South.

Your ancestors ? Who might that be ??
 
Your ancestors ? Who might that be ??


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What you call cowardice I call the triumph of intellect and civilization over brute force, emphasis on brute.

And the most telling thing is that the Germans probably agreed with me. They recognized Roman civilization as superior and spent the better part of a millennium and a half trying to become Romans.

Hell, even Hitler's pseudo-scientific bullshit glorifying an in-existent Germanic golden age didn't prevent him from modeling all of the aesthetics of his evil regime on the grandeur that was Rome.



The thing is, all your examples do nothing to reinforce the fact that the Vikings couldn't wait to shed their Norse culture and assimilate into the places they conquered.

In Normandy, Rus and Sicily they integrated so fully and so fast that within 2 or 3 generations you could hardly be able to tell their forefathers had been vikings. And in England they retained their individual identity a little longer but the Saxon culture was still so close to their own that it made no difference.

Oh I am not at all debating that.

One could argue that Roman culture and its legacy was culturally superior. The Germanic tribes that invaded most of roman europe adopted its language and many customs. That's why people still speak derivatives of latin in Spain, France and Italy, while all these areas were overrun by tribes speaking germanic languages.
 
And, "intellect and civilisation" didn't help them much against my ancestors. The Romans won the first and only major battle against Scottish tribes easily. It wasn't even close. They no doubt expected the surviving tribesmen to bend the knee, as every other nation Rome had conquered before had done. Unfortunately, the Picts and Maetae hadn't read the script, and spent the next hundred years killing thousands of Romans in a guerrilla war that would have made Afghanistan look positively civilised by comparison.

The Romans regarded being attacked in the dead of night, or on ground that meant they could not fight as a cohesive unit, to be dashed unsporting. Barbarians were supposed to charge blindly against a Legion's shield wall in broad daylight and be slaughtered to the last man. Sneaking up on a chap in the dark and slitting his throat simply wasn't Playing the Game.

Eventually, the Romans got fed up pissing away lives and, far more importantly, money on a country with appalling weather, few natural resources and a population of howling barbarians who would ambush, rape and kill you, then take your head for a trophy(and that was just the Pictish women;)). The Romans went Full Game of Thrones, built the Walls and fucked off South.

That's more attributable to the Romans never bothering to spend the necessary resources to do a proper job.

After all, as you yourself admit, we're talking about a worthless hellhole in the ass end of the known world. ;)
 
The Maetae. One of the original tribes of what would eventually become Scotland.

Ok.

I find it abit funny to claim one tribe as one's "ancestors", but I am aware that northern Scotland remained relatively homogenous throughout history due to its geographic situation.
 
That's more attributable to the Romans never bothering to spend the necessary resources to do a proper job.

After all, as you yourself admit, we're talking about a worthless hellhole in the ass end of the known world. ;)

Yeah, it only took them a century or so and around 50,000 casualties to figure it out.:) Or to quote the great author George MacDonald Fraser,

"The Romans view on Scotland was: too hot to handle, and not worth the trouble anyway".:D
 
Ok.

I find it abit funny to claim one tribe as one's "ancestors", but I am aware that northern Scotland remained relatively homogenous throughout history due to its geographic situation.

It was confirmed by a DNA test I had done - until then, I'd never even heard of the Maetae. I carry a very rare genetic marker that is not found outside Scotland.
 
It was confirmed by a DNA test I had done - until then, I'd never even heard of the Maetae. I carry a very rare genetic marker that is not found outside Scotland.

Are you serious ? You did a DNA test ?

Wow you sure take this stuff seriously. Not that it isn't interesting, though.
 
Are you serious ? You did a DNA test ?

Wow you sure take this stuff seriously. Not that it isn't interesting, though.

Yeah, specifically with a company called BritainsDNA, which specialises in the UK(obviously). I've always had an interest in this sort of research, and the price has come down to the point where it's easily affordable.
 
There's nothing cooler than appreciating history. S/O to my Norse Warriors 1000 years ago.
 
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