Vettori vs this top 10

[pankrat]

if we are talking about facing them at the time the ranks looked like that I say he beats everyone except Romero. If we are talking about facing each one on their primes it may be different.

Around that time is when Machida beat Mousasi or Muñoz.
Why Marvin should be favoured to beat him?

 

[Bend NvR Break]

Sonnen himself disagreees with you. LOL

Yet here we have a sherdogger pretending to know better than Sonnen himself based on fight finder or stats, and building an argument around that to pretend that Vettori should be favoured to beat Bisping.

Vettori who is not even close the wrestler Sonnen is but who cares, uh?

Im not even saying Vettori would win or lose here. I think is a competitive fight. Just saying that your argument to present Vettori as a clear favourite are flawed as fuck

Sonnen talked about the fight like a month ago on his podcast.

You should look it up and see what Chael says about that fight now vs the immediate response after a fight.

 

[pankrat]

Sonnen talked about the fight like a month ago on his podcast.

You should look it up and see what Chael says about that fight now vs the immediate response after a fight.

Oh well. Hide behind that if you wish. I saw the fight, as I saw Bisping vs Evans.

Your point is "Bisping lose to every wrestler he has faced" ans that's your whole point. My counter is that,

1. That's a cheap, fight-finder based statement talking about extremely close fights with the two best wrestlers in the division at the time, whch actually won in the scorecards of an official judge, several media, the promoter, and even the opponent himself in Sonnen case.

2. Your point assumes that Vettori is a wrestler of Sonnen or Evans caliber and he is not.

Not to mention Bisping has fought other good wrestlers in their own right, from Dollaway, Hammill, Akiyama, Kang or Rockhold, and didnt lose.

If you think Vettori wins, its not unreasonable at all, but the argument you used to support your stance is flawed and dishonest af, mate.

 

[RockyLockridge]

I’ve seen all of those fights.

Yoel beat Weidman just 8 months prior to losing to Rob, then beat Rockhold and lost to Rob again just 4 months later. Nothing indicated a physical decline in Yoel. Everyone knows that he’s a freak of nature.

Rob fought literally the same Yoel as Weidman and Rockhold did. Lol

Go fuck yourself!

mans a fucking clown, Just ignore him like I did

 

[pankrat]

mans a fucking clown, Just ignore him like I did

Look at this sore Rocky trying to be buddy.buddy with the most notorious shertards around, ThunderStruck and this other GoatTalks haha.

I fucking hate Maia and I don't think he's a good fighter

Exacfly this kind of poster. What a gang you make boys. Badasses.

 

[Bend NvR Break]

Oh well. Hide behind that if you wish. I saw the fight, as I saw Bisping vs Evans.

Your point is "Bisping lose to every wrestler he has faced" ans that's your whole point. My counter is that,

1. That's a cheap, fight-finder based statement talking about extremely close fights with the two best wrestlers in the division at the time, whch actually won in the scorecards of an official judge, several media, the promoter, and even the opponent himself in Sonnen case.

2. Your point assumes that Vettori is a wrestler of Sonnen or Evans caliber and he is not.

Not to mention Bisping has fought other good wrestlers in their own right, from Dollaway, Hammill, Akiyama, Kang or Rockhold, and didnt lose.

If you think Vettori wins, its not unreasonable at all, but the argument you used to support your stance is flawed and dishonest af, mate.

Dolloway - ok wrestler
Hammill - beat Bisping
Akiyama - judo guy who became a striker
Kang - was a striker
Rockhold - not a wrestler, a grappler who bent Bisping into a pretzel and tapped him with 1 hand.

 

[pankrat]

Dolloway - ok wrestler
Hammill - beat Bisping
Akiyama - judo guy who became a striker
Kang - was a striker
Rockhold - not a wrestler, a grappler who bent Bisping into a pretzel and tapped him with 1 hand.

Dude, If you dont want to discuss like an adult and addres the point made to you dont do it but no need of this childish replies. To follow your simpleton ways:

Vettori - kickboxer

 

[Bend NvR Break]

Dude, If you dont want to discuss like an adult and addres the point made to you dont do it but no need of this childish replies. To follow your simpleton ways:

Vettori - kickboxer

You had the audacity to call akiyama, Kang and Rockhold wrestlers but I'm childish?

 

[pankrat]

You had the audacity to call akiyama, Kang and Rockhold wrestlers but I'm childish?

They were wrestlers, had wrestling base and used to rely on their wrestling to win fights.
Just like Vettori, whose base is kickboxing and only sometimes wins fights with his wrestling. Yes, exactly like the guys I mentioned.

Why is Vettori a wrestler and not them? Go to AKA and say Rockhold is not a wrestler like a moron. CB is a way more credited wrestler than Vettori too.


Anyways, you just said Hammil beat Bisping while at the sime time you are going around saying he lost to Sonnen and Evans?
Stop pretending dude, it's childish and embarrassing. Enjoy it though, have a good day

 

[Bend NvR Break]

They were wrestlers, had wrestling base and used to rely on their wrestling to win fights.
Just like Vettori, whose base is kickboxing and only sometimes wins fights with his wrestling. Yes, exactly like the guys I mentioned.

Why is Vettori a wrestler and not them? Go to AKA and say Rockhold is not a wrestler like a moron. CB is a way more credited wrestler than Vettori too.


Anyways, you just said Hammil beat Bisping while at the sime time you are going around saying he lost to Sonnen and Evans?
Stop pretending dude, it's childish and embarrassing. Enjoy it though, have a good day

Yep clearly lost to all 3.
Evans sent him to MW.
Chael almost extinguished Bisping's tutor hopes.
Hammil is just the first a few times the fix was in for Bisping. Another time was the fight with Thales in the UK where Thales a BJJ fighter beat up Bisping standing but the judges weren't scoring for it Thales no matter what.

 

[pankrat]

Yep clearly lost to all 3.
Evans sent him to MW.
Chael almost extinguished Bisping's tutor hopes.
Hammil is just the first a few times the fix was in for Bisping. Another time was the fight with Thales in the UK where Thales a BJJ fighter beat up Bisping standing but the judges weren't scoring for it Thales no matter what.

Muy bien niño

 

[Bend NvR Break]

Muy bien niño

Kid? I'll ignore that.

Anyway you're a decent poster. I'll just assume you're really pro Bisping. He was handpicked by the UFC to represent them in th UK. Given extremely favorable match ups (and judging) along the way and lost every contender's fight he's been in. Then he fluked his way to the MW title by Silva walking off and not landing follow up shots leading to a Bisping victory and taking a short notice title shot and knocking out a guy who obliterated him in a previous fight.

He is what he is. No need to play him up

 

[pankrat]

Kid? I'll ignore that.

Anyway you're a decent poster. I'll just assume you're really pro Bisping. He was handpicked by the UFC to represent them in th UK. Given extremely favorable match ups (and judging) along the way and lost every contender's fight he's been in. Then he fluked his way to the MW title by Silva walking off and not landing follow up shots leading to a Bisping victory and taking a short notice title shot and knocking out a guy who obliterated him in a previous fight.

He is what he is. No need to play him up

Playing him up for saying he could give Vettori a competitive fight? It's not like Im saying he would beat Adesanya or anything.

Im not particularly a fan of Bisping at all - I admire him for becoming champ with on eye but that's it - it rather looks like you are clear hater.

- He goes to extremely close split decisions in which the official result is a loss? You say is a LOSS.

- He goes to extremely close split decision in which the official result is a win? You say is a LOSS.

- He knocks out his opponent with the same specific combo he trained for him, and throw like 4 times in that same fight before getting the KO? FLUKE.

And so on..
Discrediting what he did right and highlighting his flaws, that in my language has a name which if im not mistaken translate to English as CARICATURE.

 

[GUY]

Around that time is when Machida beat Mousasi or Muñoz.
Why Marvin should be favoured to beat him?

he would do to him the same Weidman did

 

[pankrat]

he would do to him the same Weidman did

So now Vettori gets credit as being as good as the best version of Weidman.
In this thread I have also read people comparing his wrestling skill to that of Randy Couture, so not suprise by this point. I guess this is what they call recency bias.

Not even sure Vettori would be such a favourite vs Brunson or Canonnier today, let alone Whittaker or Adesanya. Yet he should be favoured over the pime unbeaten Weidman and the row of killers that peaked just before USADA....

 

[Bruce Lee666]

He's good iron the current weak MW division

I disagree with most of what you said.

Hermanson and Costa are solid but they wouldn't do much to this top 10 either.

I can't stand Bisping but I could even see him beat Costa.

VS

I don't see how Bisping is going to beat a young monster like Costa, I see him being KO'd like he was against Hendo Prime.

by the way Bisping is the biggest pussy of all time waited for Hendo to make 46 for the rematch, I really liked it when Gastelum raped him.

 

[GUY]

So now Vettori gets credit as being as good as the best version of Weidman.
In this thread I have also read people comparing his wrestling skill to that of Randy Couture, so not suprise by this point. I guess this is what they call recency bias.

Not even sure Vettori would be such a favourite vs Brunson or Canonnier today, let alone Whittaker or Adesanya. Yet he should be favoured over the pime unbeaten Weidman and the row of killers that peaked just before USADA....

lets put it this way, he gave Adesanya his thoughest fight in the UFC at middleweight (the first) and didnt do so bad in the second. I consider Adenasanya a considerably better striker than prime Machina. Now, on that ranking we are not seeing prime Machida, that would be Machida on his run to become LHW champion. So, yes I think Vettori beats that version of Machida. I also think he beats Weidman actually. I think their wrestling cancel each other and Vettori right now is better on the striking. The sports evolve. Doesnt mean Vettori has a better career than any of them.

 

[pankrat]

lets put it this way, he gave Adesanya his thoughest fight in the UFC at middleweight (the first) and didnt do so bad in the second. I consider Adenasanya a considerably better striker than prime Machina. Now, on that ranking we are not seeing prime Machida, that would be Machida on his run to become LHW champion. So, yes I think Vettori beats Machida. I also think he beats Weidman actually. I think their wrestling cancel each other and Vettori right now is better on the striking. The sports evolve. Doesnt mean Vettori has a better career than any of them.

With all due respect, I think that's a pretty cheap MMA math.

Gastelum gave Israel his truly toughest fight at MW yet he also has 8 losses in UFC, including at the hands of Weidman, who wasnt undefeated anymore and his prime very arguably ended with the Rockhold savage beating courtesy of Herb Dean.

I could work a MMA math around that too, but honestly I think its pretty cheap.

Do you think Vettori would be a favourite over Brunson? And if so, by how much?
Brunson who was definitely not ranked over the guys listed in OP. If you want to tell me that Brunson is still better than them because is 2021 and "the sport evolves" cool but doesnt seem like a convincing argument to me, tbh.

And yeah, the sport evolves in the general scheme of things but not the way you pretend, and we are talking about Vettori, not about Whittaker or Adesanya who are truly the leading talents of his generation at MW

 

[GUY]

With all due respect, I think that's a pretty cheap MMA math.

Gastelum gave Israel his truly toughest fight at MW yet he also has 8 losses in UFC, including at the hands of Weidman, who wasnt undefeated anymore and his prime very arguably ended with the Rockhold savage beating courtesy of Herb Dean.

I could work a MMA math around that too, but honestly I think its pretty cheap.

Do you think Vettori would be a favourite over Brunson? And if so, by how much?
Brunson who was definitely not ranked over the guys listed in OP. If you want to tell me that Brunson is still better than them because is 2021 and "the sport evolves" cool but doesnt seem like a convincing argument to me, tbh.

And yeah, the sport evolves in the general scheme of things but not the way you pretend, and we are talking about Vettori, not about Whittaker or Adesanya who are truly the leading talents of his generation at MW

Do you realise Israel won a unanimous decision against Gastelum and a split decision against Vettori? He probably took more damage on the fight against Gastelum, but he was literally closer to lose against Vettori.
I would favour Vettori over Brunson, and Brunson clearly evolved. He is not a retired fighter, he is training and improving. Also, Vettori just beat Costa who would run through the large majority of that top 10 too. And we are yet to find out how Vettori or Costa would do against Whittaker before you put him together with Israel as the talents of this generation.

 

[GUY]

Also if I wanted to do true MMA Math I could just tell you that Yoel beat every guy he faced from that top 10 and lost to every guy he faced from the current top 5.