Usyk vs Wlad, Vitali, and Lennox?

Blastbeat said:
Wlad would KO him in a round? Don't be ridiculous. Wlad was a good boxer but very predictable, that's how Fury outboxed him. Usyk is capable of doing something like that.

And it's typical after a historic win everyone clamors to discredit it, no matter who beat who. In this case it's Usyk and because he's done something not many else have done, he's a lightning rod for every hot take spewed out on the internet. Fury is still a good fighter he's just not the best HW of this generation. Usyk beating him is a good feat.

Lennox could underestimate dudes and that how he got KO'd twice. Not saying he would vs Usyk and I would heavily favor Lennox but I think Usyk has a small chance for a close decision.

And also Chisora is underrated. He gives lots of world class fighters tough fights. Shouldve beaten Whyte and Parker the first time he fought them both.
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It's strange that he holds Usyk's first real heavyweight fight against him (excluding Witherspoon who was a walkover), when he hadn't even acclimated to the weight class yet, while simultaneously ignoring the knockout losses that both Wlad & Lewis suffered against journeymen.
 
Vitali and Lennox were at their best when they were dishing out damage, I dont see either of them dancing around Usyk using jabs to keep him away. The only way I could see him losing would be if Wlad hit him with the jab hug combo spam for 12 rounds.
 
I wouldn't classify Oliver McCall and Hasim Rahman as journeymen. A coach like Emanuel Steward wouldn't devote his time and effort to a journeyman, and a journeyman would hardly land a meaningful punch on Lennox Lewis and defeat opponents like Corrie Sanders.
 
He does fine against the Klits, Lennox is a big unknown. I'd favour LL, but Usyk is better than Holyfield imo, so fuck, what a fight.
 
defjaam said:
I wouldn't classify Oliver McCall and Hasim Rahman as journeymen. A coach like Emanuel Steward wouldn't devote his time and effort to a journeyman, and a journeyman would hardly land a meaningful punch on Lennox Lewis and defeat opponents like Corrie Sanders.
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They were considered journeymen, gatekeepers at best, when they fought Lewis. That's how they were regarded by the general public and inside the industry at the time. In McCall's case, I think this Wikipedia description of his career up until that point makes it clear enough even for the layman to understand.

“Coming into his fight with Lewis, McCall sported an unimpressive 24–5 record with a majority of his wins being against unknown journeymen while his five losses had come against heavyweight contenders including Orlin Norris, James "Buster" Douglas and Tony Tucker.”

Lennox Lewis vs. Oliver McCall
 
Kovalev's Man Bag said:
They were considered journeymen, gatekeepers at best, when they fought Lewis. That's how they were regarded by the general public and inside the industry at the time. In McCall's case, I think this Wikipedia description of his career up until that point makes it clear enough even for the layman to understand.

“Coming into his fight with Lewis, McCall sported an unimpressive 24–5 record with a majority of his wins being against unknown journeymen while his five losses had come against heavyweight contenders including Orlin Norris, James "Buster" Douglas and Tony Tucker.”

Lennox Lewis vs. Oliver McCall
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To me journeymen have a record like 5-24, not 24-5.
That's also what that Wikipedia description says, that McCall most wins were over journeymen... not that he was one himself.
 
defjaam said:
To me journeymen have a record like 5-24, not 24-5.
That's also what that Wikipedia description says, that McCall most wins were over journeymen... not that he was one himself.
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When you constantly step up and lose to just about any half decent fighter, and most of your wins are against journeymen, that's your level. McCall already had a handful of losses before he even got a championship fight. Some guys start off as journeymen but they end up becoming a champion like he did. Others stay journeymen which are called career journeymen. Historically we've had a number of heavyweight champs lose to that level of fighter. Max Baer lost to a full-fledged journeyman named Braddock (Cinderella Man). It's a bad look but at heavyweight it's more acceptable than it is at the lower weights.

journeyman.png


My search query → “was mccall a journeyman before he beat lewis”
 
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treelo said:
this is fucking funny, you do realise that Europe has lots of different countries with LOTS of people who dont like each other, its like grouping the Americas together and wondering why a redneck doesnt like a mexican fighter
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Europeans will still support a white European heavyweight regardless of what country he is from. Also the last time I checked a Mexican and white guy aren't the same thing. The last time I checked all native Europeans are white.
 
Blastbeat said:
Wlad would KO him in a round? Don't be ridiculous. Wlad was a good boxer but very predictable, that's how Fury outboxed him. Usyk is capable of doing something like that.

And it's typical after a historic win everyone clamors to discredit it, no matter who beat who. In this case it's Usyk and because he's done something not many else have done, he's a lightning rod for every hot take spewed out on the internet. Fury is still a good fighter he's just not the best HW of this generation. Usyk beating him is a good feat.

Lennox could underestimate dudes and that how he got KO'd twice. Not saying he would vs Usyk and I would heavily favor Lennox but I think Usyk has a small chance for a close decision.

And also Chisora is underrated. He gives lots of world class fighters tough fights. Shouldve beaten Whyte and Parker the first time he fought them both.
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Lol you do realize Wlad was 40 when he faced Fury right? Good God are people like you dense. Let me guess, you didn't realize people get old and when people get old they become worse athletes. The Wlad that faced Fury was way past his peak and Fury still didn't out box him. He ran and only landed 86 punches in 12 rounds.

Fury was never a good fighter. Lol could you imagine a legit boxing fan saying Leon Spinks was a really good fighter because he beat a 40 year old Ali? Fury beat a old Wlad and didn't even look good doing it.

Chisora isn't a good fighter. Whyte and Parker aren't good fighters either. Because Parker beat a 38 year old shop worn Deontay Wilder who was never good and a 41 year old Zhang who almost lost to Jerry Forrest doesn't make Parker good now.

Either way Chisora was 36 and shop worn and Usyk still barely beat him. Yeah beating a 36 year old fighter that was never good to began with makes you a ATG. So when Buster Douglas beat a undefeated Mike Tyson why didn't anybody call Douglas a ATG? Funny how that works right? When Jimmy Young beat a prime 28 year old Foreman why didn't anybody call him a ATG? Young also beat Ron Lyle twice, most people think he beat Ali, and Ken Norton. Funny how that works right?

When Oliver McCall and Hasim Rahman beat Lennox Lewis why weren't they considered ATG? Hell when Corrie Sanders destroyed a 27 year old Wlad who had over 40 bouts why wasn't he considered a ATG? When Fury beat a 40 year old Wlad you pretend boxing fans jumped to calling him a ATG?

But the fact that you can't grasp that Wladimir Klitschko was past his prime when he fought Fury pretty much tells me what kind of pretend boxing fan you are to began with.

Usyk barely beat Chisora, barely beat Joshua, and barely beat Fury. The same Tyson Fury who is so bad that in 10 rounds he only landed 100 punches and 17 percent of his punches against Francesco Pianeta. To put this to perspective a old George Foreman in his 40s to almost 50 was landed 225 to 290 punches against guys like Tommy Morrison, Axel Schulz, Lou Savarase and Shannon Briggs who are all better than Pianeta

Usyk defense is so bad that Fury was able to land 37/38 percent of his punches. Which is still low but as I said Fury couldn't land punches on Pianeta even though Pianeta wasn't throwing punches back. This shows you how inaccurate Fury is but he was able to land on Usyk. There is no way Usyk is keeping Vitali, Wlad, Lewis off him and there is no way he is surving more than a few rounds.
 
CelestialKiller said:
Europeans will still support a white European heavyweight regardless of what country he is from. Also the last time I checked a Mexican and white guy aren't the same thing. The last time I checked all native Europeans are white.
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Europe's not a homogenous continent, there's no such thing as a collective identity or solidarity.
You have poor intercultual understanding.

If you think all Sweden gives a fuck about a boxer from Romania, I got a bridge I'd like to sell to you.
 
defjaam said:
Europe's not a homogenous continent, there's no such thing as a collective identity or solidarity.
You have poor intercultual understanding.

If you think all Sweden gives a fuck about a boxer from Romania, I got a bridge I'd like to sell to you.
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Lol Europeans have white skin, Europeans will praise any boxer with white skin. Usyk and Fury are Europeans with white skin. Europeans with white skin will praise them because they have white skin. White Americans will also praise Usyk and Fury because they have white skin and white Americans know there will never be another white American heavyweight champion so they either have to praise 180 pound Rocky Marciano or praise what white Europeans do.

So Usyk and Fury are only hyped up by white people end of story. Tyson Fury beat a old Wlad and Wilder. That is it but somehow that makes him a ATG. Then the same white people will nit pick Mike Tyson's opposition. Usyk beat Joshua after Andy Ruiz beat him first and then beat Tyson Fury and some how that makes him a ATG. If a black boxer would of done the same thing the same people praising Usyk and Fury would be bashing the black boxer. End of story.
 
CelestialKiller said:
Lol Europeans have white skin, Europeans will praise any boxer with white skin. Usyk and Fury are Europeans with white skin. Europeans with white skin will praise them because they have white skin. White Americans will also praise Usyk and Fury because they have white skin and white Americans know there will never be another white American heavyweight champion so they either have to praise 180 pound Rocky Marciano or praise what white Europeans do.

So Usyk and Fury are only hyped up by white people end of story. Tyson Fury beat a old Wlad and Wilder. That is it but somehow that makes him a ATG. Then the same white people will nit pick Mike Tyson's opposition. Usyk beat Joshua after Andy Ruiz beat him first and then beat Tyson Fury and some how that makes him a ATG. If a black boxer would of done the same thing the same people praising Usyk and Fury would be bashing the black boxer. End of story.
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They should lock you up with Diddy.
 
CelestialKiller said:
Europeans will still support a white European heavyweight regardless of what country he is from. Also the last time I checked a Mexican and white guy aren't the same thing. The last time I checked all native Europeans are white.
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I think Americans who descend from East Europeans will be more supportive of Usyk.
and vice a versa with Fury and Anglo Americans.
They will also cheer for a Black American over those guys.
Like a Sugar Ray Leonard type.
Without question.
White people have a harder time liking guys like Wilder when he walks out to "Black this, Black excellence, Black Everything" or whatever that song was.
How do you expect them to get on board with that?
When that white guy, forget who, walked out with "build the wall", brick wall trunks...I mean does he think some Mexican guy is gonna over look that and cheer for him because he throws a nice jab?
Boxers should represent their nations not their race.
 
Mujeriego said:
I think Americans who descend from East Europeans will be more supportive of Usyk.
and vice a versa with Fury and Anglo Americans.
They will also cheer for a Black American over those guys.
Like a Sugar Ray Leonard type.
Without question.
White people have a harder time liking guys like Wilder when he walks out to "Black this, Black excellence, Black Everything" or whatever that song was.
How do you expect them to get on board with that?
When that white guy, forget who, walked out with "build the wall", brick wall trunks...I mean does he think some Mexican guy is gonna over look that and cheer for him because he throws a nice jab?
Boxers should represent their nations not their race.
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White Americans cheered Usyk over Joshua and White Americans cheered Fury over Wilder even though Wilder is American.

If you want to say a person who cheer their nation when why did White Americans cheer Tyson Fury the Brit over Wilder the American? White Americans cheered Fury because he is white and they are white. They cheer Usyk because he is white and they are white.
 
CelestialKiller said:
White Americans cheered Usyk over Joshua and White Americans cheered Fury over Wilder even though Wilder is American.

If you want to say a person who cheer their nation when why did White Americans cheer Tyson Fury the Brit over Wilder the American? White Americans cheered Fury because he is white and they are white. They cheer Usyk because he is white and they are white.
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Most white guys I knew wanted AJ.

I think if you asked about 95% of all white skinned people who their favorite fighter was.
It would probably be a black or brown skinned fighter.
How many say Ali or Tyson without hesitiation. Sugar Ray Leonard, Roberto Duran.
Or if you asked this question 50 years ago. It was Joe Louis and Sugar Ray Robinson.
They cheered for Louis to beat Schmeling, they cheered for Floyd to beat Ignemar.
 
Mujeriego said:
Most white guys I knew wanted AJ.

I think if you asked about 95% of all white skinned people who their favorite fighter was.
It would probably be a black or brown skinned fighter.
How many say Ali or Tyson without hesitiation. Sugar Ray Leonard, Roberto Duran.
Or if you asked this question 50 years ago. It was Joe Louis and Sugar Ray Robinson.
They cheered for Louis to beat Schmeling, they cheered for Floyd to beat Ignemar.
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Lol white people will mention a black fighter so people won't call them out. 99 percent of white guys who mention Ali or Mike Tyson never even seen these guys fight. Joe Louis was biracial with light skin and Americans wanted him to win because Schmeling was German and people assumed he was a Nazi.

Which has nothing to do with Tyson Fury or Usyk does it? We are talking about these guys. 99 percent of the people who tell you that Usyk and Fury are ATG are white dudes end of story.
 
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