USA vs ISIL

[SMillard]

Like I said; if they hadn't disbanded my old mob back in 1307, they wouldn't have this problem now.:icon_twis

Knight Templars and Waffen SS divisions. Hell all we need now are some Vikings and Conquistadors and we'd have a real party

 

[ShinkanPo]

Knight Templars and Waffen SS divisions. Hell all we need now are some Vikings and Conquistadors and we'd have a real party

Add in the Mongol Horde. And some South East Asian headhunters lol..

 

[Ayin]

Profile of the Australian ISIS recruit who had his son holding a severed head.

"His symptoms were quite severe, he was quite delusional.

"He was overheard talking to other people when no-one was there. This was observed on quite a few occasions and it was a state of mind that persisted for some time."


Sounds like he's being instructed directly by God. It's a miracle!

 

[BKMMAFAN]

"His symptoms were quite severe, he was quite delusional.

"He was overheard talking to other people when no-one was there. This was observed on quite a few occasions and it was a state of mind that persisted for some time."


Sounds like he's being instructed directly by God. It's a miracle!

He was hearing voices in his head. Many devotedly religious persons seem to. Or perhaps those persons are mentally ill too.

 

[Fronk]

Just got done watching it....incredibly fascinating. I'm not sure if the Sunni pooulation are supporting isis out of fear or if they truly believe in them.

I think they will change their tune if IS ever manage to consolidate their control over captured areas and enfore their twisted view of a society.

 

[Ayin]

He was hearing voices in his head. Many devotedly religious persons seem to. Or perhaps those persons are mentally ill too.

Nah, if you're following the ONE true religion then it's god (or the devil tempting you) talking in your head. If you're not part of that one group, then it's demons. Or maybe it's all just chemical imbalances in the brain. Does Zeus still throw lightning bolts?

 

[Ruprecht]

Well... the point was that he's not so much a pious muslim, as a high school drop out come petty criminal, with mental health issues and a history of violence and drug abuse.

 

[KnightTemplar]

Knight Templars and Waffen SS divisions. Hell all we need now are some Vikings and Conquistadors and we'd have a real party

Add in the Mongol Horde. And some South East Asian headhunters lol..

Celts took heads as well; Irish tribes used to have "trophy houses" in large villages which contained the heads of enemies.

The legendary warrior Cu Chulainn killed so many men they had to build a trophy house just for the heads he collected.

 

[Zankou]

One of my favorite stories from Early Islam is how the caliph Abd al Malik beat his rival and first took power -- Abd al Malik largely created what we know as Islam, making it the state religion and making Arabic the language of the caliphate. The Dome of the Rock, among other things, was erected by Abd al Malik.

At any rate, once he had captured his great rival, Abd al Malik put him on a silver dog chain and dragged him around town on all fours. Then he straddled him in full mount, decapitated him with a knife, threw his head over the wall to his supporters, and went to bed.

This is why I LOL at people who argue that the Islamic State doesn't represent true Islam. Go study up on the maghazi (earliest Muslim histories) and the history of the early caliphates and get back to me on that. People always try to cite the high water marks of Islamic civilization -- the "Golden Era" Abassid caliphate and Spain -- while ignoring how the civilization began: The early caliphates.

 

[ShinkanPo]

Celts took heads as well; Irish tribes used to have "trophy houses" in large villages which contained the heads of enemies.

The legendary warrior Cu Chulainn killed so many men they had to build a trophy house just for the heads he collected.

This Anti islamist Catholics, are still using WWII rifles!!! M1 carbines and Garands.

 

[LionExMachina]

has the arab league every provided leadership :icon_lol:

I retrospect that has to be the most retarded question I've posted in my time here....I'm ashamed...

 

[zulqarnayn]

One of my favorite stories from Early Islam is how the caliph Abd al Malik beat his rival and first took power -- Abd al Malik largely created what we know as Islam, making it the state religion and making Arabic the language of the caliphate. The Dome of the Rock, among other things, was erected by Abd al Malik.

At any rate, once he had captured his great rival, Abd al Malik put him on a silver dog chain and dragged him around town on all fours. Then he straddled him in full mount, decapitated him with a knife, threw his head over the wall to his supporters, and went to bed.

This is why I LOL at people who argue that the Islamic State doesn't represent true Islam. Go study up on the maghazi (earliest Muslim histories) and the history of the early caliphates and get back to me on that. People always try to cite the high water marks of Islamic civilization -- the "Golden Era" Abassid caliphate and Spain -- while ignoring how the civilization began: The early caliphates.

That can be said about America as well; didn't they exterminate the natives living on these lands?

 

[Orgasmo]

That can be said about America as well; didn't they exterminate the natives living on these lands?

True, there was no lack of atrocities committed by Americans throughout history. Nobody is giving them a free pass. However, you don't see American troops chasing down religious minorities and killing them by the thousands today. Nobody in US is forcing foreigners to speak English or get beheaded. The problem with your religion is that you drag society back to 7th century. When have you heard about significant scientific development in Middle East in the past century?

 

[Zankou]

That can be said about America as well; didn't they exterminate the natives living on these lands?

Not exactly, disease exterminated 95% of them.

But more to the point, I think we can all agree that early Americans were not the perfect exemplars of God's divine plan for the universe.

This is a lot harder for Muslims to argue re: Mohammed and the early caliphs. Supposedly those guys are like divine exemplars. The whole name "Sunni," which is the subject of this thread, refers to the "practice" or actions of Mohammed, as well of those of the "Rightly Guided" caliphs who followed him, caliph being the divinely appointed leader of the Muslim religious community.

Fun fact, where does the word "caliph" even come from? Until caliph Abd al Malik, we have no record of anybody using that word to describe a Muslim leader. Abd al Malik appears to have taken it from a reference in the Qur'an to King David, as God's representative. The Caliph is Allah's representative on Earth. When Sunni Islam later emerged, it reacted against this earlier form of Islam, and downplayed the caliph and his religious role in favor of the "Ummah," the community of believers. In Shiite Islam, of course, that reversal against a centralized religious leader did not happen as thoroughly, which many scholars believe shows an archaic retention of primitive Islamic beliefs.

Prior to Abd al Malik, the Arab kings called themselves "Commander (Amir) of the Believers." Only with Abd al Malik did they start calling themselves Caliph, leader of Muslims. This is why many scholars see Abd al Malik as essentially the beginning of "Islam" as a distinct religion.

By the way, I have to express my admiration for your posting name, which I assume is a reference to the Arabic term for Alexander the Great (the "two horned one"), as used in the Qur'an.

 

[zulqarnayn]

True, there was no lack of atrocities committed by Americans throughout history. Nobody is giving them a free pass. However, you don't see American troops chasing down religious minorities and killing them by the thousands today. Nobody in US is forcing foreigners to speak English or get beheaded.

Hey i am no way condoning these acts.

The problem with your religion is that you drag society back to 7th century. When have you heard about significant scientific development in Middle East in the past century?

I guess the problem is the Sykes-Picot agreement; divide and conquer.

 

[Zankou]

True, there was no lack of atrocities committed by Americans throughout history. Nobody is giving them a free pass. However, you don't see American troops chasing down religious minorities and killing them by the thousands today. Nobody in US is forcing foreigners to speak English or get beheaded. The problem with your religion is that you drag society back to 7th century. When have you heard about significant scientific development in Middle East in the past century?

I'd even be a bit more pointed than that -- why is it that virtually all scientific progress from within the Islamic world has actually come from Jews, Christians, and Shiiites, largely Persian and Lebanese?

....

Even in the "Golden Era" of Islamic achievement, the great bulk of such achievement was done by Persians, Jews, and Christians, who were heirs to the great achievements of Late Antiquity, and continued their advancement under Islamic rule. Take a look at a list of all the greatest scientists of Ancient Islam. Not one Arab amongst them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_in_the_medieval_Islamic_world

"As Ibn Khaldun, the fourteenth-century Arab historiographer and sociologist suggests, it is a remarkable fact that with few exceptions, most Muslim scholars in the intellectual sciences were Ajams ("Persians"):

Thus the founders of grammar were Sibawaih and after him, al-Farisi and Az-Zajjaj. All of them were of Persian descent… they invented rules of (Arabic) grammar … great jurists were Persians … only the Persians engaged in the task of preserving knowledge and writing systematic scholarly works. Thus the truth of the statement of the prophet becomes apparent, 'If learning were suspended in the highest parts of heaven the Persians would attain it' … The intellectual sciences were also the preserve of the Persians, left alone by the Arabs, who did not cultivate them … as was the case with all crafts … This situation continued in the cities as long as the Persians and Persian countries, Iraq, Khorasan and Transoxiana [=modern Central Asia], retained their sedentary culture."

History is useful, folks. Persia >>>>>>> Arabia.

 

[zulqarnayn]

Not exactly, disease exterminated 95% of them.

But more to the point, I think we can all agree that early Americans were not the perfect exemplars of God's divine plan for the universe.

This is a lot harder for Muslims to argue re: Mohammed and the early caliphs. Supposedly those guys are like divine exemplars. The whole name "Sunni," which is the subject of this thread, refers to the "practice" or actions of Mohammed, as well of those of the "Rightly Guided" caliphs who followed him, caliph being the divinely appointed leader of the Muslim religious community.

Fun fact, where does the word "caliph" even come from? Until caliph Abd al Malik, we have no record of anybody using that word to describe a Muslim leader. Abd al Malik appears to have taken it from a reference in the Qur'an to King David, as God's representative. The Caliph is Allah's representative on Earth. When Sunni Islam later emerged, it reacted against this earlier form of Islam, and downplayed the caliph and his religious role in favor of the "Ummah," the community of believers. In Shiite Islam, of course, that reversal against a centralized religious leader did not happen as thoroughly, which many scholars believe shows an archaic retention of primitive Islamic beliefs.

Prior to Abd al Malik, the Arab kings called themselves "Commander (Amir) of the Believers." Only with Abd al Malik did they start calling themselves Caliph, leader of Muslims. This is why many scholars see Abd al Malik as essentially the beginning of "Islam" as a distinct religion.

By the way, I have to express my admiration for your posting name, which I assume is a reference to the Arabic term for Alexander the Great (the "two horned one"), as used in the Qur'an.

Exactly! Disease that was manufactured by the colonizers. They distributed smallpox blankets to the Aboriginals thereby committing genocide.

 

[zulqarnayn]

Yes, Zankou you are correct about my posting name. By the way i am impressed with your in-depth of the Middle East.

 

[Zankou]

Exactly! Disease that was manufactured by the colonizers. They distributed smallpox blankets to the Aboriginals thereby committing genocide.

That myth has been exposed by scholars many times over. Smallpox decimated the Native population for centuries before anybody knew anything about disease transmission and how it worked. The Spaniards were constantly distraught about how their labor force was dying in droves.

There's only one incident in which it was evenproposed to use disease to attack natives. Disease spread like wildfire among all Native Americans, including the Indian allies of the Europeans, regardless of what anybody did. Reverse is also true of Native American diseases like syphilis, btw, which ran rampant through Europe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_disease_and_epidemics

 

[Zankou]

Yes, Zankou you are correct about my posting name. By the way i am impressed with your in-depth of the Middle East.

Thanks, I find these issues really fascinating, and as you probably noticed I'm a big dork for scholarship on the emergence of Islam and the Qur'an.

In that regard have you read this awesome article about the background for the Qur'an's references to Zulqarnayn? "The Legend of Alexander the Great in the Qur'an," by van Bladel.

http://www.amazon.com/Quran-Histori...1872&sr=8-2&keywords=quran+historical+context

I highly recommend it, it explains a great deal about the story and its context in pre-Islamic Syriac texts, which you couldn't tell from the Qur'an alone. Wikiislam also has a good discussion of this subject.

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Dhul-Qarnayn_and_the_Alexander_Romance

This is one of the hottest areas of Islamic scholarship right now, showing how much of the Qur'an is premised on a Syriac linguistic, textual, and cultural substrate that later Muslim tradition no longer understood or remembered (because it was committed to the traditional Muslim narrative that the Qur'an was divinely revealed as an oral recitation to an illiterate prophet in the Hijaz, rather than arising as part of the literate Middle Eastern culture).