International Updated: Trump says he authorised CIA in Venezuela as Maduro says 'no to regime change'

That is not why they commit crime though.

Terrorism implies a means (violence/crime) to an end (social or political goals). Cartels do not exist as organizations dedicated to enacting political change.

Ensuring compliance is a means to the end goal of making money, so unless we are going to redefine the word terrorism to mean "using violence to achieve the goal of making money, instead of or in addition to, the goal of enacting political, social, or religious change", then you and Rob have it backwards.

No, this is a retarded take because in the end power is the end goal, money is just a means to power and sometimes that gets convoluted.

This is just a "its not real socialism" the terrorist version.

The goal is to put fear into civilian population for political goals, goals that a lot of times do entail enriching themselves

The term "political" relates to the system or activities of governing a country or area, including the exercise of power, decision-making, and the distribution of resources. It can also refer to a person's beliefs, affiliation with a political party or cause, or their involvement in the processes of government.
 
"The goal of making more money...by intimidating government officials, so that the government works in tandem with the cartels to protect their illegal business."

Just shut the fuck up, retard.
You're literally describing a financial goal.

Here's how I know you're a dumbass on this issue, like most American issues. If you were at all familiar with Sec. 219, you might wonder what its drafters had in mind, because plainly it wasn't drug cartels.

Spoiler, they were thinking of Libya, not drug smuggling. There's a separate section in the bill that deals with drugs and the DEA. There's even a separate law that was created to deal with transnational drug cartels, the Kingpin Act.

The Congress finds that--
(1) international terrorism is among the most serious
transnational threats faced by the United States and its
allies, far eclipsing the dangers posed by population growth or
pollution;
(2) the President should make efforts to counter
international terrorism a national security priority, including
the establishment of an office in the White House to coordinate
United States Government efforts to counter terrorism;
(3) the President should undertake immediate efforts to
organize an international conference, under the auspices of the
United Nations, to discuss cooperative, multilateral responses
to the threat of international terrorism;
(4) the President should use all necessary means, including
covert action and military force, to disrupt, dismantle and
destroy infrastructure used by international terrorists,
including terrorist training facilities and safe havens;
(5) the Congress deplores decisions to ease, evade, or end
international sanctions on state sponsors of terrorism,
including the recent decision by the United Nations to allow
airline flights to and from Libya despite Libya's noncompliance
with United Nations resolutions; and
(6) the President should undertake efforts to increase the
international isolation of state sponsors of international
terrorism, including efforts to strengthen international
sanctions, and should oppose any future initiatives to ease
sanctions on Libya or other state sponsors of terrorism.
Better yet, you know why we know an FTO designation is a joke here? Because if we were applying the FTO designation, that would be mean any US citizen or firearms company that sold weapons to an FTO are providing material support to terrorism. Where are these prosecutions?
 
You're literally describing a financial goal.
Yeah, and that is totally separated a political one at all times? Even when they're killing politicians to advance their goals?

LOL, good Lord. I repeat, shut the fuck up, retard.
 
No, this is a retarded take because in the end power is the end goal, money is just a means to power and sometimes that gets convoluted.

This is just a "its not real socialism" the terrorist version.

The goal is to put fear into civilian population for political goals, goals that a lot of times do entail enriching themselves

The term "political" relates to the system or activities of governing a country or area, including the exercise of power, decision-making, and the distribution of resources. It can also refer to a person's beliefs, affiliation with a political party or cause, or their involvement in the processes of government.
He’s a retard. He’s misunderstanding the definition.
 
I do think it's a bit grey like I said in my original post a few pages back.

I mean, they commit drug crimes to sell drugs, I get that. But they also target police and politicians and civilians for anyone who gets in the way.

I mean, say the Mafia back in the day (I could be wrong), they would generally get pissed at anyone who targeted cops because of the heat it brought.

The cartels actually go after the cops and politicians so that poltiicians wanting to crack down on them don't apply for the job. Is intimidating and murdering politicians so they don't apply for the job or don't pursue policies a goal of changing government through violence some form of terorristic regime change? Not sure if it is, but if it's not, it's a very close sibling.

So it feels like there's two types of crimes going, one that is drug dealing, and others that has a different twist to it which is trying to control society around resisting those crimes. Can one be considered non-terrorist crime (the drug dealing part) while the other part of targeting police and politicians and civilian dissidents terroristic????

I can see how some might say yes.
There's a line where it crosses over and you have a better argument for FTO designation, like Noriega or Escobar where you have serious state capture.
Was it me?
Funny enough I think it's me because I called him out for claiming Tesla's Dojo chips were going to be this great advance in semiconductors, only for Tesla to cancel the project less than a month later. The man believes anything ChatGPT tells him and can't admit when Musk is wrong.

What the hell are you even talking about in regard to silicone!? Each chip design is specialized to a specific use case. Dojo is incredible for its use case. How ignorant are you?

At a certain point in every conversation I ask myself “is this guy retarded?”.
Remember when you were telling me Dojo is amazing and then couldn't back up your argument and tell me why or how it compares to rival silicon?

Tesla realized they couldn't compete and tossed in the towel.

"Bloomberg News on Thursday cited people familiar with the matter as saying Musk had ordered the Dojo team to be disbanded, with team leader Peter Bannon departing the company."
I told you that Tesla has an integrated production line. They still do. Consolidating AI efforts only increases that fact.
 
Yeah, and that is totally separated a political one at all times? Even when they're killing politicians to advance their goals?

LOL, good Lord. I repeat, shut the fuck up, retard.
It was, in fact, the retard I thought it was.
 
Yeah, and that is totally separated a political one at all times? Even when they're killing politicians to advance their goals?

LOL, good Lord. I repeat, shut the fuck up, retard.
So you can't provide any testimony from the bill's drafters mentioning 219 was aimed at drug cartels?

Do you even know who drafted the bill or sponsored it?
 
So you can't provide any testimony from the bill's drafters mentioning 219 was aimed at drug cartels?

Do you even know who drafted the bill or sponsored it?
"The bill's drafting of 219...something, something...drug cartels who kill/intimidate politicians, are totally not not committing terrorism in a political sense."

Shut the fuck up, retard.
 
"The bill's drafting of 219...something, something...drug cartels who kill/intimidate politicians, are totally not not committing terrorism in a political sense."

Shut the fuck up, retard.
Brilliant. You still have no idea what the bill's sponsors had in mind when pushing it along.

Your proud ignorance is truly something to behold. It's like watching a train wreck.
 
Yeah but something soured that. Remember they held some US Oil execs in prison and it seemed "diplomatic relations" took a turn after that. It's weird because US oil companies seem to have no real issues paying into the democratic socialism of Nordic Countries, or even funding f the UBI that exists in Alaska. But something about Latino and African Nations requires guerilla soldiers. I wonder what it could be...
What soured is the that the last 2 elections where an american puppet (Guaidó and Corina) didnt recognize the elections and claimed fraud. US backed them (guaido actually tried to make a parallel cabinet). BTW I'm not pro Maduro and specially the last election was really shady. I'm just pointing out what made everything go downhill.

Also, this whole thing has nothing to do with drugs, if it was the case Trump would be going in Colombia. I dont think it's only oil though. I think getting some foot in the amazon, that is rich in minerals, is part of Trump's goals as he needs alternatives to China. It's Colombia, Brazil or Venezuela. Brazil and Colombia current presidents doesnt have a good relationship with Trump but they're properly elected. Maduro is the easier target since he's an international pariah.

It also appease the military complex a little bit, since he's not straight up funding Ukraine anymore, gotta have new targets to creat demand.
 
What soured is the that the last 2 elections where an american puppet (Guaidó and Corina) didnt recognize the elections and claimed fraud. US backed them (guaido actually tried to make a parallel cabinet). BTW I'm not pro Maduro and specially the last election was really shady. I'm just pointing out what made everything go downhill.

Also, this whole thing has nothing to do with drugs, if it was the case Trump would be going in Colombia. I dont think it's only oil though. I think getting some foot in the amazon, that is rich in minerals, is part of Trump's goals as he needs alternatives to China. It's Colombia, Brazil or Venezuela. Brazil and Colombia current presidents doesnt have a good relationship with Trump but they're properly elected. Maduro is the easier target since he's an international pariah.

It also appease the military complex a little bit, since he's not straight up funding Ukraine anymore, gotta have new targets to creat demand.

I can agree with most of this. Oil and minerals. On Maduro, you know I have tried to do a deep-dive on the last election with multiple sources, I can read Spanish so I used both languages, and it was really really difficult to find a lot of information on what all went down. I did this to respond to a thread here a long time ago, but eventually just forgot about it and I have the sources I found saved. Apparently his administration DID invite UN witnesses and other such International bodies, and they refused to come. Only like 3 Countries sent representatives and I could only find any reporting on what 2 of them said and both said the election was legitimate. Given everything Empire Files has published on the meddling that has plagued then since Chavez, I cannot just be convicting of Maduro because it suits a narrative especially given we openly tried to coup them and are likely trying to do the same thing right now. This stinks of Iraq War, just on this side of the Atlantic.
 
What soured is the that the last 2 elections where an american puppet (Guaidó and Corina) didnt recognize the elections and claimed fraud. US backed them (guaido actually tried to make a parallel cabinet). BTW I'm not pro Maduro and specially the last election was really shady. I'm just pointing out what made everything go downhill.

Guaido was the speaker and considering Maduro banned all political opposition i think its fair to claim he became illegitimate at that point so Speaker of the House would the be the legitimate president.

When i hear American say stupid shit like "Oh Maduro is legitimate everyone else is US puppet" it really really makes me want Trump to succeed at its power grab so i can rub in their faces "well Trump has all the levers of power ergo he is the legitimate leader"
 
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I can agree with most of this. Oil and minerals. On Maduro, you know I have tried to do a deep-dive on the last election with multiple sources, I can read Spanish so I used both languages, and it was really really difficult to find a lot of information on what all went down. I did this to respond to a thread here a long time ago, but eventually just forgot about it and I have the sources I found saved. Apparently his administration DID invite UN witnesses and other such International bodies, and they refused to come. Only like 3 Countries sent representatives and I could only find any reporting on what 2 of them said and both said the election was legitimate. Given everything Empire Files has published on the meddling that has plagued then since Chavez, I cannot just be convicting of Maduro because it suits a narrative especially given we openly tried to coup them and are likely trying to do the same thing right now. This stinks of Iraq War, just on this side of the Atlantic.

Maduro banned most political candidates that had any shot and when he released the list, opposition rallied behind a guy already on the ballot, so Maduro wouldn't blatantly ban him.

Then opposition were against persecution and harrassing of the regime repressive forces, managed to get a copy of each voting station results, scanned them and uploaded them, Maduro just ignored them and declared himself winner with zero evidence.

Venezuela is a full blown dictatorship, but we all kind of knew this shit would go this way since Chavez got elected.,
 
I can agree with most of this. Oil and minerals.
If this was true Maduro would simply be normalized, its not like America is above dealing with dictatorship in exchange of resources.
 
Guaido was the speaker and considering Maduro banned all political opposition i think its fair to claim he became illegitimate at that point so Speaker of the House would the be the legitimate president.

When i hear American say stupid shit like "Oh Maduro is legitimate everyone else is US puppet" it really really makes me want Trump to succeed at its power grab
I'm not american and I'm not defending Maduro legitimacy. When I say Guaido was an american puppet it's not about legitimacy, it's because he didnt have a strong internal base and was meeting with the american government before the whole thing went down. He was being backed up by the US and public asking for foreing intervention. Most of the countries who recognized Guaido didnt have an idea of who he was and only did so by US request.
Also, the interpretation of the constitution he used for the presidence to be considered "vacated" was a little bogus too.
And like I said I was just pointing out why everything went sour

I can agree with most of this. Oil and minerals. On Maduro, you know I have tried to do a deep-dive on the last election with multiple sources, I can read Spanish so I used both languages, and it was really really difficult to find a lot of information on what all went down. I did this to respond to a thread here a long time ago, but eventually just forgot about it and I have the sources I found saved. Apparently his administration DID invite UN witnesses and other such International bodies, and they refused to come. Only like 3 Countries sent representatives and I could only find any reporting on what 2 of them said and both said the election was legitimate. Given everything Empire Files has published on the meddling that has plagued then since Chavez, I cannot just be convicting of Maduro because it suits a narrative especially given we openly tried to coup them and are likely trying to do the same thing right now. This stinks of Iraq War, just on this side of the Atlantic.
The thing is... in venezuelan elections they always release the "actas de escrutinio", some minutes related to the voting. They didnt release it in the last one, even after saying they would. Even some former allies had trouble with it. So it was really shady.
 
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