Media UFC Pros Pick - Jessica Andrade vs. Weili Zhang

[Zangief HW GOAT]

Zhang looks great, but I really hope Andrade wins.
Amazing champion, always comes to fight, will fight anyone.

 

[Sausage_Carius]

Randa "I don't know much about Zhang, but if she's a brawler like Jessica"........

That explains why she cant string two wins together, she clearly doesn't watch any of the other girls fights

Joanna doesn't watch the other girls fight either.

In fact the way ATT sets up camps none of the fighters watch fights unless they want to. The coaches sit around watching tape and then pull out tendencies and teach their fighter how to gameplan around that. Reason being... fighters do make adjustments and changes from fight to fight so you can't necessarily gameplan too much for one thing cause then there's no plan B.

That said ATT has been complete morons in the past to a point where you could have done a better job cornering or gameplanning. But you already know how I feel about that.

Before you say but she mostly lost with ATT. Her Polish coaches did handle her differently. They relied very heavily on her own best attributes and not so much on the opponent at all. But you could see her fall apart under their coaching as well so her downfall has nothing to do with one way of doing things or the other.

 

[dim_]

Joanna doesn't watch the other girls fight either.

In fact the way ATT sets up camps none of the fighters watch fights unless they want to. The coaches sit around watching tape and then pull out tendencies and teach their fighter how to gameplan around that. Reason being... fighters do make adjustments and changes from fight to fight so you can't necessarily gameplan too much for one thing cause then there's no plan B..

just seems to me, if you have any sort of ambition - especially at womens 115 which is a pretty open division, anyone is 3 wins from a potential title shot - then you watch other fights in the division. But to not even know what style a fighter in the top ten has, that means she has never watched her fight, hell, shes not even watched highlights.

That to me says she has a total lack of ambition (and is content to alternate wins and losses)

If im at 115, and i have ambition to do well in the division, rise up the rankings, maybe one day get a title shot, you can be sure as hell im watching every fight involving other 115'ers because they could be my next opponent.

 

[KarateStylist]

Nice training-focused promo video for Zhang.


Weili Zhang UFC training for Jessica Andrade / 因为张 训练
Matthews MMA
Published on Aug 20, 2019

The issue which caused Rose to lose may well be addressed here. We shall shortly see.

 

[KarateStylist]

Joanna doesn't watch the other girls fight either.

In fact the way ATT sets up camps none of the fighters watch fights unless they want to. The coaches sit around watching tape and then pull out tendencies and teach their fighter how to gameplan around that. Reason being... fighters do make adjustments and changes from fight to fight so you can't necessarily gameplan too much for one thing cause then there's no plan B.

That said ATT has been complete morons in the past to a point where you could have done a better job cornering or gameplanning. But you already know how I feel about that.

Before you say but she mostly lost with ATT. Her Polish coaches did handle her differently. They relied very heavily on her own best attributes and not so much on the opponent at all. But you could see her fall apart under their coaching as well so her downfall has nothing to do with one way of doing things or the other.

MMA media didnt' like this when I commented same years ago.

The overall way so much of MMA & kickboxing is trained is martially moronic. Yet MMA claimed Joanna was 'elite' of 'elite.'

Boxing is a SCIENCE, and striking is an ART. Can't develop skill without a regimen holding those principles in mind. Intead of no mind.

 

[Sausage_Carius]

just seems to me, if you have any sort of ambition - especially at womens 115 which is a pretty open division, anyone is 3 wins from a potential title shot - then you watch other fights in the division. But to not even know what style a fighter in the top ten has, that means she has never watched her fight, hell, shes not even watched highlights.

That to me says she has a total lack of ambition (and is content to alternate wins and losses)

If im at 115, and i have ambition to do well in the division, rise up the rankings, maybe one day get a title shot, you can be sure as hell im watching every fight involving other 115'ers because they could be my next opponent.

But you aren't a fighter.

Case in point. Joanna has been asked about this on IG multiple times over the years and I caught her answer each time.... well besides the times I didn't... point is the reason she gives is she already spends the vast majority of her life/time training and prepping. The little personal time she does have she savors and spends it carefully. She spends the moments in between interacting with fans and sometimes during her personal time she really covets it.

This is because she is dedicated. She is taking what she is doing seriously and is still all in. She is a real pro. Any girl who wants to fight at her level has to compete at her level every single day of every month of every year. It's why she primarily dominates everybody.

My point is.. if the pressure on her is so high where her personal time is so small you can imagine all the other girls desperately trying to play catch up.

She has coaches she pays to do this for her as professionals. Something she is not one in that respect.

In other words it's mostly a waste of precious time.

 

[Sausage_Carius]

MMA media didnt' like this when I commented same years ago.

The overall way so much of MMA & kickboxing is trained is martially moronic. Yet MMA claimed Joanna was 'elite' of 'elite.'

Boxing is a SCIENCE, and striking is an ART. Can't develop skill without a regimen holding those principles in mind. Intead of no mind.

This is one of those things I wish we had a discord to discuss. Hard to get across in text.

I'll just say you are alluding to her downfall for which there were many reasons. People prefer to attribute everything to skill. They are wrong. How your liver functions is not a skill a fighter can fully command. It's why they hire experts. Experts that can turn out to be fakes.

Then you might bring up the 2nd Rose fight. I'll mention that coach of the year coached her to lose not just pre-fight but during and in between rounds. Go back and watch it with corner audio from JJ's side. It's going to take me years to get over that one. Also listen in on Rose's corner in a re-watch.

She is not perfect but you are comparing a fighter who the UFC ran into the ground cause she was about to retire. They timed it perfectly. Just as well as the Holly vs Ronda fight.

Anyway JJ has erased mistakes she made from one fight to the next but sometimes that means nothing (Val).

Her technical skill in the standup is far ahead of where it was in 2017 and much more polished since 2018.

Anyway your entire comment is odd considering the subject at hand. The point here was that she doesn't watch fights because she spends her time training and the rest of the time decompressing. They burned her out the last time. They are trying not to do that this time.

Besides what is she going to pick up from watching the other girls? How terrible most of them are. Doesn't make sense. Her head coach is supposed to do the game planning and tell her what to do. She then uses the skill she picked up in training to do it as best she can.

 

[asdf122345]

Why this poll result 50/50?
Andrade wins with ease. We won't have an asian champion.

 

[Sausage_Carius]

Why this poll result 50/50?
Andrade wins with ease. We won't have an asian champion.

Weili looks very juicy and it's in China. People are thinking it's going to be another Till vs Wonderboy special. However in more recent shots Andrade has also looked juicy. Someone is getting slept and Andrade knows she needs a finish to win this one.

People are conflicted. I would say they have reason to be. I'm pretty sure this is the second time I answered a poll for this fight. Each time I picked a different winner. At least I think I did and that's close enough for me.

 

[KarateStylist]

Need a commentator to pick up?

It's actually an awesome fight, but thanks for contributing your valuable and insightful opinion.

It's a good match up. With a stronger challenger w greater motivation.

If the chinese chick wins, that would be good for business.

But I think this is a bad matchup for her
Andrade is a beast.

Zhang may hit the proverbial brick wall. Andrade is not a kicking shield.

^ don't agree, I think Zhang's a horrible matchup for Andrade. She's just like Joana contender but with more horsepower. Zhang looking extra thicc for this fight too. I think she takes it.

Andrade is a power fighter. MMA competitors typically fall to power fighters w their overwhelming physicality.

Time-stamped for her comments on Zhang vs Andrade at the end of the video.
UFC 241: Jodie Esquibel Believes Weili Zhang Has A Good Shot At Beating Champ Jessica Andrade
MMAFightingonSBN
Published on Aug 15, 2019

See comment below. "MMA competitors learning so much more than in their camps... from continually losing." Vindicates me over all my MMA critics for all time. A presidential pardon, equal to.

Zhang's got a good path to victory if she fights at distance. If she avoids getting KO'd early, the fight leans towards her the longer it goes and the Chinese judges will take care of her.

No, too simplistic. Can't wish. Dunno know about the judging.

Think Zhang can outstrike her to a decision... but if Andrade gets a hold of her she is going for a ride... interested in the main event. But dang, main card starts at what 3am...

We will see if Weili's striking passes muster. Jessica's a 'buster.'

I dont think Zhang will be able to handle Andrade pressure.

The issue.

Don't know a lot about Weili Zhang, but 16 finishes out of 19 wins (9KO/TKO, 7 Submissions) sounds great tbh. Jessica Andrade is an exciting, wild fighter as well, say what you want about her, but there's no boring fight as long as she's in that Octagon.

Track record will not help Weili. Brand new opponent, well seasoned & unique qualities.

Weili is a lot more well rounded and seems tough. She might not be as physically strong but she has a lot of tools to win with. Hope she dont get dumped on her head like Rose did.

Rose should not have been dumped on her head either. MMA training to blame. Will Weili's training fill that gap?

Watching this I'm realizing 90% of fighters actually don't know much about fighting.

Soooooooooooooo Rrrrrriiiiiight. These competitor interviews Witnesseth so.

Another proof that being an analyst and trying to read combat actually requires more thought process than just being a fighter and drilling techniques without understanding it or understanding the use of it.

Fold in actual training in a codified curriculum & you'll have a potential winner.

I think Zhang needs a couple more fights before she got to Andrade, but def going for Zhang cause I love muscular Chinese chicks.

No. Doesn't really work. Ask Conor as he fumbles the comeback.

People saying Zhang fights like Joanna what are you smoking. Joanna has fantastic boxing, Zhang's boxing is way less developed & she relies more on throwing a lot of kicks from distance.

Joanna has classic conventional Muay Thai. REally strong Muay Thai would have overcome Rose... at least bloodied her in rematch.

If you look at Weili's fight with Santos you will see there was a lot of sloppy wild exchanges where Santos tagged her hard. If she gets lured into that kind of fight with Andrade she gets Ko'd likely. She is a strong girl though, so maybe she can try to grapple & give Andrade another submission loss? We'll see.

Precisely. Dicey taking Jessica on by matching strength. MMA training typically gets over-powered in these cases.

There you have it. More insight in one post than hours of MMA Roundtable chit chat.

 

[KarateStylist]

This is one of those things I wish we had a discord to discuss. Hard to get across in text.

Yes, text cannot do justice to martial arts. Only point the way, aid understanding..

I'll just say you are alluding to her downfall for which there were many reasons. People prefer to attribute everything to skill. They are wrong. How your liver functions is not a skill a fighter can fully command. It's why they hire experts. Experts that can turn out to be fakes.

Yes, the scope of my comment was too narrow, speaking of an overall fighter manager.

Then you might bring up the 2nd Rose fight. I'll mention that coach of the year coached her to lose not just pre-fight but during and in between rounds. Go back and watch it with corner audio from JJ's side. It's going to take me years to get over that one. Also listen in on Rose's corner in a re-watch.

Was that the 303 guy? I have a philosophical divide, a huge one with MMA on cornering. The need for it.

She is not perfect but you are comparing a fighter who the UFC ran into the ground cause she was about to retire. They timed it perfectly. Just as well as the Holly vs Ronda fight.

Yes, the broader perspective of yours is accurate. I've commented on same dynamic much to chagrin of establishment. Nevertheless, I do believe Holly Holm was perfectly prepared for the Ronda Rousey fight. Rose was not so well prepared for Joanna II, nor for Jessica Andrade. What seemed smart technical s in those bouts was a ticking time bomb, martially speaking.

Anyway JJ has erased mistakes she made from one fight to the next but sometimes that means nothing (Val).

No, I disagree. Joanna patched holes, and ramped up her game against Rose II, but DID NOT raise the bar on martial skill. That's why for all her considerable effort and coaching... she LOST the decision.

Her technical skill in the standup is far ahead of where it was in 2017 and much more polished since 2018.

I'll stipulate to your view... with the proviso that Joanna's MMA training (along with UFC promotional demands along w weight cutting stresses), is her current downfall.

Anyway your entire comment is odd considering the subject at hand. The point here was that she doesn't watch fights because she spends her time training and the rest of the time decompressing. They burned her out the last time. They are trying not to do that this time.

My comment isn't odd. What's odd is forums espousing martial arts without grounding in a curriculum based art. The interviewer of Esquibel is asking third grade level questions... purportedly of socially meaning content.

I wasn't speaking so much to the tape watching. Media could hire me and provide an editor, but that would be the equivalent of melting the MMA Iron Throne. Blasphemy.

Besides what is she going to pick up from watching the other girls? How terrible most of them are. Doesn't make sense. Her head coach is supposed to do the game planning and tell her what to do. She then uses the skill she picked up in training to do it as best she can.

See my reply above. I commented on the limitations of tape watching before,,, against getting pelted with rotton MMA produce. Furthermore in karate kumite @ the class level, we don't get game planning coaching. We are responsible for fighting opponents we don't know and haven't seen before. Generally everyone is sparring at the same time, so it's not like you sit around gawking at other students. Least not @ the TMA schools in my area.

I've posted much, much more about the principles of fighting with traditional karate @ TSF... but that's not embraced by MMA, even though karate provides comprehensive principles for all these questions MMA competitors don't seem to have an answer for.

 

[KarateStylist]

...This is because she is dedicated. She is taking what she is doing seriously and is still all in. She is a real pro. Any girl who wants to fight at her level has to compete at her level every single day of every month of every year. It's why she primarily dominates everybody....

Can't fault Joanna Jedrzejczyk on dedication & work ethic. She's tops.

 

[Sausage_Carius]

Yes, text cannot do justice to martial arts. Only point the way, aid understanding..


Yes, the scope of my comment was too narrow, speaking of an overall fighter manager.


Was that the 303 guy? I have a philosophical divide, a huge one with MMA on cornering. The need for it.


Yes, the broader perspective of yours is accurate. I've commented on same dynamic much to chagrin of establishment. Nevertheless, I do believe Holly Holm was perfectly prepared for the Ronda Rousey fight. Rose was not so well prepared for Joanna II, nor for Jessica Andrade. What seemed smart technical s in those bouts was a ticking time bomb, martially speaking.


No, I disagree. Joanna patched holes, and ramped up her game against Rose II, but DID NOT raise the bar on martial skill. That's why for all her considerable effort and coaching... she LOST the decision.


I'll stipulate to your view... with the proviso that Joanna's MMA training (along with UFC promotional demands along w weight cutting stresses), is her current downfall.


My comment isn't odd. What's odd is forums espousing martial arts without grounding in a curriculum based art. The interviewer of Esquibel is asking third grade level questions... purportedly of socially meaning content.

I wasn't speaking so much to the tape watching. Media could hire me and provide an editor, but that would be the equivalent of melting the MMA Iron Throne. Blasphemy.


See my reply above. I commented on the limitations of tape watching before,,, against getting pelted with rotton MMA produce. Furthermore in karate kumite @ the class level, we don't get game planning coaching. We are responsible for fighting opponents we don't know and haven't seen before. Generally everyone is sparring at the same time, so it's not like you sit around gawking at other students. Least not @ the TMA schools in my area.

I've posted much, much more about the principles of fighting with traditional karate @ TSF... but that's not embraced by MMA, even though karate provides comprehensive principles for all these questions MMA competitors don't seem to have an answer for.

Good points. The only thing I would add to this is really a question.

Considering how much of Joanna's life we do see now (she practically shares her entire life on IG in stories etc.) what could she possibly do to improve her game. Or has the candle been burned too long.

She finally took more or less 6 months off before really settling back into training. It was her first real break since entering the UFC. She says she is back to her old self.

 

[blurple]

No. Doesn't really work. Ask Conor as he fumbles the comeback.

What?

 

[KarateStylist]

Good points. The only thing I would add to this is really a question.

Considering how much of Joanna's life we do see now (she practically shares her entire life on IG in stories etc.) what could she possibly do to improve her game. Or has the candle been burned too long.

She finally took more or less 6 months off before really settling back into training. It was her first real break since entering the UFC. She says she is back to her old self.

This is an in-depth question. I'm glad to see her enjoying the fruits of her labours. She & Rose are @ at the same divide, for some different reasons.

 

[KarateStylist]

What?

Exactly. Conor is @ .

 

[Fight To Win]

Zhang picks her apart to a decision. Andrade isn't the most cerebral and unpredictable fighter ever. She either Wanderleis her way in or wrestles or both.

 

[KarateStylist]

Good points. The only thing I would add to this is really a question.

Considering how much of Joanna's life we do see now (she practically shares her entire life on IG in stories etc.) what could she possibly do to improve her game. Or has the candle been burned too long.

She finally took more or less 6 months off before really settling back into training. It was her first real break since entering the UFC. She says she is back to her old self.

My quicke follow-on.

For Joanna to profit, not just bang away at the same ole, same ole despite respite break, she needs new coaching talent. The warning sign was the decision loss to Rose. Not for lack of effort or drive. This is one of the foundation myths of sport fighters... the JUST DO IT!. That's a 50-50 proposition @ best. Skill is what carries the day. Martial wise. There is nothing to be lost, and perhaps significant benefit to be gained by seeking out higher level training. Take her striking base to a notch up in level. Dedicated Muay Thai coach or camp could be that ticket.*

As discussed before, watch the weight cutting make as scientific as possible. Watch out for the UFC promotional demands... they are a killer all on their own.

EDIT: *Or, Professional kick boxing? Which starts with what?

 

[humdizzle]

should be a good fight. I think Zhang is gonna pull it off

 

[blurple]

Exactly. Conor is @ .

I don't know what Conor has to do with me liking thicc Chinese girls.

90% of your posts don't make sense.