UFC: Grapplers not welcome

[Irenaeus]

There was a grappling match posted here recently between Aj Azagarm and Durinho, two guys who, if sub grappling were MMA, would be considered top 15 or so in their weight class. These guys spent 3 minutes trying to take each other down, 3 minutes with Dorinho trying to pass AJ's guard (even though Dorinho was clearly superior from that position), and 3 minutes with Dorinho controlling AJ's back looking for the finish that eventually came. So, essentially, it took Dorinho almost 10 minutes to set up an eventual finish against an overmatched opponent. Was it because he was "stalling?"

Are you vehemently agreeing with me here? You're kind of making the same point as me.

Here:

None of the fighters needs to stall for a second for that to turn into a long stalemate, they just need to be determined not to fight stupid.

 

[trustdoesntrust]

Are you vehemently agreeing with me here? You're kind of making the same point as me.

Here:

That's a funny way to put it, but yeah, I vehemently agree with you.

 

[Irenaeus]

That's a funny way to put it, but yeah, I vehemently agree with you.

Lol. It confused me to no end. I'm too used to an adverserial tone when being quoted.

Cheers, then.

 

[knoxpk]

Stick with it fellas it always comes full circle...

Early UFC's favored grapplers that could finish because few trained grappling regularly, with the rules in tact but fighters changing their styles at some point grapplers will start competing and finishing. Then the cycle we are in will start over again.

 

[georgejjr]

Hmmm, as much civilized the human being is, they still look up to the toughest person in the room, is just like that. The UFC has made it to where it is because it was supposed to promote the best fighter in the world, the toughest sob around, that is what the UFC was based on (dont you remember, AS REAL AS IT GETS?) that was his whole marketing strategy, and it worked awesome for them. The biggest incomes from the UFC im pretty sure comes from regular joes wanna be tough man. So lets stop pretending the UFC isnt appealing to the "realism" factor.

Actually, most folks I talk to think unarmed fighting isn't an indication of being tough, but of being stupid enough to artificially limit themselves - ie to not use weapons. Equating fighting unarmed with proving toughness is on the same spectrum as equating say boxing to proving toughness - the equivalent of "sure you can win using grappling (or weapons), but you don't have to be tough to do that. Real men just punch". Sound familiar? Ever found it convincing?

If we fought for real unarmed, we'd mainly still be lion and bear kibbles.

 

[RTD1]

Didn't read the whole thread as I just watched it on DVR now.

Can someone explain to me how if 2 judges scored it 10-9 Zapata and 1 scored it 10-8 Stephens and then you take 1 point from Zapata, how Zapata could have won? It's mathematically impossible. Dana Douche White said something about it then being a tie and they asked the judges to go back and circle the winner, but it wasn't a tie after you subtract the point, and even so since when do the judges get asked to rescore after scoring?

 

[Rod1]

Of course you can, you can start shit ANYWHERE in the world, there are rich people, there are poor people there are "war zones" there are uptowns and downtowns, its like saying, cant you start shit in NY and get out untouch, yes in some parts, and no in others. Still not everyone in the world lives in a guetto, not everyone in the worlds is poor as fuck nor a drug dealer, you will hardly find that type of crazy mother fuckers carring in parts "good" parts of the city... I live in in the middle of the 3rd most corrupt country in the world, So I kind of know wtf am talking about, I can get stabbed in the chest if I try to start a fight in the middle of a paraguayan favela, just like Ive been and seen countless fights and no body ever got stabbed or shot.. why? I dont hang around in fabelas, simple as that.

Not everyone fights to the death, that is silly. Saying people will just shoot you is ridiculous, unless you are fucking with the wrooong people.

-Ryan Gracie robbed a regular motorcyclist, not a crimelord.

-Maiquel Falcao along with another bellator fighter got beat by 4 random guys, not crimelords.

Also you do realize that not all druglords live in slums right? mexican druglords and overall organized crime individuals or big organizations are not slum ghetto guys in tattoos they move in suits, regular clothes, go to regular clubs etc.

In my city you cant start shit with anyone because you dont know who the fuck someone is. These 3 guys were throwing shit telling they worked for a local druglord crashed a party and then beat up one guy who talked back, turns out that guy was actually the son of said druglord and these guys were taken away, tied up and beat to a pulp.

Still humans SUCK big time and fighting without weapons, we havent fought without weapons for 3 millions years when we were nothing but a chimp who walked straigth.

Nobody, until the coming of martial arts movies considered unarmed fighting as any form of real combat.

 

[Thrawn33]

UFC is not against grappling, is against people trying to convert a fight into a grappling match and who think they are being robbed because the judges arent scoring it as a wrestling/judo/BJJ match.

As a grappler (5 years wrestling, 4 years Judo, 1 year no-gi) I agree.

I also recognize stalling pretty well, from the top or bottom. Have not seen the match in question from the OT, and not insinuating anything, but I have seen grapplers in MMA who are content to only achieve dominant position and do nothing with it to game the system.

 

[JustinTime]

-
Nobody, until the coming of martial arts movies considered unarmed fighting as any form of real combat.

Nobody who's been punched in the face hasn't considered unarmed fighting to be combat.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

-Ryan Gracie robbed a regular motorcyclist, not a crimelord.

-Maiquel Falcao along with another bellator fighter got beat by 4 random guys, not crimelords.

Also you do realize that not all druglords live in slums right? mexican druglords and overall organized crime individuals or big organizations are not slum ghetto guys in tattoos they move in suits, regular clothes, go to regular clubs etc.

In my city you cant start shit with anyone because you dont know who the fuck someone is. These 3 guys were throwing shit telling they worked for a local druglord crashed a party and then beat up one guy who talked back, turns out that guy was actually the son of said druglord and these guys were taken away, tied up and beat to a pulp.

Still humans SUCK big time and fighting without weapons, we havent fought without weapons for 3 millions years when we were nothing but a chimp who walked straigth.

Nobody, until the coming of martial arts movies considered unarmed fighting as any form of real combat.

do you think druglords are the ones shooting people? they have other people doing that....

so you basically think every fight is a fight to the death? Paraguay must be the most civil country in the planet earth, because down here, if you know where you are going, you are expected not to get shot or stab just for the sake of it... Fights are not wars, and the human being has evolved enough to difference a fist fight from a fight to the death, stop being silly. Most people wont shot you or stab you just because, now if you bring a weapon to the fight, then it sure as hell the tone of the fight changed, there are literally 100000000 of fights on youtube and channels like those, guess those guys didnt get the memo that you either shot the mother fucker or you hare a 34000000 million years cave man.

Sadly, you may be talking from your point of view and the constant shit you hear and see, since mexico is probably one of the most dangerous places to live at (well the border is, although my friend got shot and killed a couple years back in mexico city though)

 

[Rod1]

do you think druglords are the ones shooting people? they have other people doing that....

All druglords carry weapons except when they are moving undercover, Chapo Guzman disguised himself as an old man and literally walked the streets of Sinaloa his hometown, its possible you could had seen the most wanted druglord of the XXI century worth billions of dollars in a lobby in an hotel.

so you basically think every fight is a fight to the death? Paraguay must be the most civil country in the planet earth, because down here, if you know where you are going, you are expected not to get shot or stab just for the sake of it... Fights are not wars, and the human being has evolved enough to difference a fist fight from a fight to the death, stop being silly.

Neither where i live, but where i live you cant either expect a fair fight.

Also weapons dont need to be deadly, blunt weapons are pretty damn common

Most people wont shot you or stab you just because, now if you bring a weapon to the fight, then it sure as hell the tone of the fight changed, there are literally 100000000 of fights on youtube and channels like those, guess those guys didnt get the memo that you either shot the mother fucker or you hare a 34000000 million years cave man.

Again Falcao and a friend, both bellator MMA fighters got beat by only 4 guys, one with a wooden board.

In another video a black guy, with no training fend off like 5 guys with a small baseball bat. My cuban judo coach when he came from cuba carried a baseball bat in his car and he is a 4th dan in judo, and also trained judo, karate and wrestling.

Sadly, you may be talking from your point of view and the constant shit you hear and see, since mexico is probably one of the most dangerous places to live at (well the border is, although my friend got shot and killed a couple years back in mexico city though)

Mexico is nowhere near as violent as the countries in central america and is even safer if you arent part of the drug trade.

Still there are cities you need to stay away (Texas border states).

Still its not the point, unarmed combat has never been the benchmark for being the toughest guy or a fighter until MA movies.

 

[EndlessCritic]

I love how people on sherdog are criticizing stephens for not finishing the rnc despite having zapata's back for 3 rounds.

You know who else couldn't finish the RNC in MMA? Maia against Fitch. You know who else? Marcelo Garcia.

 

[RTD1]

Why do we even have a "10 point must" scoring system in MMA? This method of scoring originated in boxing back when pro boxing fights were 12 or even 15 rounds as a way to evaluate the fighters earlier vs latter performance over the course of a long bout. It makes no sense in a 3 or 5 round MMA fight and it's ludicrous in the 2 + 1 format of TUF.

 

[JustinTime]

Still its not the point, unarmed combat has never been the benchmark for being the toughest guy or a fighter until MA movies.

And you know because you were around before these movies eh? Combat is combat. Yes there are different levels (duh), but my grandma could kill someone with a knife, and she's not exactly the "toughest" person. There hasn't been a single day in human history where the ability to kill or incapacitate someone with just your body wasn't considered with at least some esteem.

 

[Flippant]

It's depressing but yes they're dumbing down the sport.
At least now they can use closed gloves.

 

[tenniswhiz]

OP is correct that Dana was wrong and WAY out of line.

But the actual result is the fault of the judges.
The result was hard to imagine as is, but with Mazzagatti's point deduction, it should have been impossible.
Never seen anything like that; that was really bad.

I hate that grappling positions are not scored because the round just has to be 10-9.
So an even round with one guy taking the other guy down, even just for 10 seconds, is a 10-9 to the guy who got the TD.
A round where one guy takes the opponent down, passes guard, takes the back, goes for a couple subs, lands dozens of unanswered strikes? Still the same 10-9.
Lame.

 

[tenniswhiz]

Why do we even have a "10 point must" scoring system in MMA? This method of scoring originated in boxing back when pro boxing fights were 12 or even 15 rounds as a way to evaluate the fighters earlier vs latter performance over the course of a long bout. It makes no sense in a 3 or 5 round MMA fight and it's ludicrous in the 2 + 1 format of TUF.

Gotta do more 10-8 and 10-10.
May as well be a 1 point must right now.
A slight advantage and a domination shouldn't both be 10-9.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

I love how people on sherdog are criticizing stephens for not finishing the rnc despite having zapata's back for 3 rounds.

You know who else couldn't finish the RNC in MMA? Maia against Fitch. You know who else? Marcelo Garcia.

And roger, jaca rani bibiano silva, it is really really fucking hard to finish the rnc in Mma these days...

 

[georgejjr]

Not everyone fights to the death, that is silly. Saying people will just shoot you is ridiculous, unless you are fucking with the wrooong people.

Sure, most fights are really just sporting events - they have unwritten rules. But you can (and should) just walk away from those fights. I don't consider them important, because there's no need to participate.

Where I live, the fights you can't just walk away from almost always involve weapons and numbers. Even bar fights - they're never one on one (typically half the bar gets involved), and they almost always involve bottles, chairs, and whatever else is at hand. The cops say serious fights (meaning serious injuries) almost always involve weapons/numbers. So do the crime stats. If I'm worried about defending myself and my family, I'm thinking of defending against serious attacks, not ones that can be simply declined.

The point is, no one is denying that learning to fight unarmed isn't great against chest thumping optional fights. But anyone who thinks its the way to go against serious fights (ie your attacker means you serious harm and is not letting you just walk away) is living in an enviably gentle neighborhood.

 

[number9dream]

All druglords carry weapons except when they are moving undercover, Chapo Guzman disguised himself as an old man and literally walked the streets of Sinaloa his hometown, its possible you could had seen the most wanted druglord of the XXI century worth billions of dollars in a lobby in an hotel.



Neither where i live, but where i live you cant either expect a fair fight.

Also weapons dont need to be deadly, blunt weapons are pretty damn common



Again Falcao and a friend, both bellator MMA fighters got beat by only 4 guys, one with a wooden board.

In another video a black guy, with no training fend off like 5 guys with a small baseball bat. My cuban judo coach when he came from cuba carried a baseball bat in his car and he is a 4th dan in judo, and also trained judo, karate and wrestling.



Mexico is nowhere near as violent as the countries in central america and is even safer if you arent part of the drug trade.

Still there are cities you need to stay away (Texas border states).

Still its not the point, unarmed combat has never been the benchmark for being the toughest guy or a fighter until MA movies.

Duno what the falcao video is meant to prove... both of them were drunk and one of them literally got hit in the head from behind with a 2by4...

Also you seem to be ignoring a couple of millennia worth of wrestling and boxing competition.
Maybe not marks of being THE toughest guy around but definitely marks of toughness.