UFC: Grapplers not welcome

[BJJ_Rage]

You'd see a lot more darce chokes, that's for sure. Guys are in vulnerable to those a lot in UFC, however, the gloves make it harder so it doesn't happen as much. The gloves actually make quite a few submissions harder to do. Not a huge factor, but a bit of one.

I would be fine with just:

- 1 round of 25 minutes
- No standups

That would make it much closer to a real fight.

not a huge? bro the best weapon of a grappler is the RNC, with gloves, its exponentially harder to sink one, take away the gloves and you will hardly see 12 minuts of back riding anymore, strikes plus no gloves makes the RNC extremely hard to avoid.

 

[BrainBar]

not a huge? bro the best weapon of a grappler is the RNC, with gloves, its exponentially harder to sink one, take away the gloves and you will hardly see 12 minuts of back riding anymore, strikes plus no gloves makes the RNC extremely hard to avoid.

Well....I didn't wanna sound like a BJJ homer, but you're right, its a big difference.

I did 2 amateur MMA matches a few years ago (1-1). And in the one I won, I had the guys back, was going for the RNC, and he was pulling the arm down to defend. He had a finger in the glove hooking it and the ref couldn't see it. Im sure this happens a lot. I just wrote it off as being just like grabbing the gi. But, yeah, without the gloves, I think it would be much easier.

But you're right. It wont affect finishing the choke once its in. But getting the choke locked in...much harder with gloves.

 

[Forceof1]

To be fair, Zapata did far more DAMAGE.

Last I checked, the point of the UFC is to inflict damage, or win by submission.

Also to be fair- UFC doesn't control or assign the judges.

Now- before you flame- I like grappling, and don't want it to be undervalued.

however, the dude literally did NOTHING with dominant position. If he even threw one strike the entire first round, I missed it. Even he wasn't sure he won that round (had to ask Edgar)

And again - I think the grappler should have won the fight as it was scored by the ref (with the point deduction).

But Zapata was beating the hell out of him, especially with the LEGAL elbows. I did see one in the first, when he was warned, that was illegal.

No one wants to watch a UFC where you get back control, hang out for 25 minutes and win the fight, never really doing any damage at all.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Well....I didn't wanna sound like a BJJ homer, but you're right, its a big difference.

I did 2 amateur MMA matches a few years ago (1-1). And in the one I won, I had the guys back, was going for the RNC, and he was pulling the arm down to defend. He had a finger in the glove hooking it and the ref couldn't see it. Im sure this happens a lot. I just wrote it off as being just like grabbing the gi. But, yeah, without the gloves, I think it would be much easier.

But you're right. It wont affect finishing the choke once its in. But getting the choke locked in...much harder with gloves.

thats the thing, getting it locked, people is allow to grab the gloves, or at least the base of it, trying to break free a 2 on 1 is hell and takes a shit ton of gas, plus getting the forearm under the chin is even harder. But that not being enough, locking it behind the head is also very hard, the size of the gloves takes away too much space, so most people choke with the non choking arm on top of the head, which makes it very easy for the defender to escape, unless you have already one arm under the chin, the defender will be pulling the arm down most likely...

 

[D3thr0n3d K1ng]

I dont think it is just grappling. Dana wants exciting fights. If two strikers put on a Mir-Crocop match he would also complain.

If youre a grappler and you fight like Jon Fitch you only have yourself to blame.

 

[Deltafarce]

It needs to go back to no gloves, no rounds no stupid rules that favor strikers

 

[MC Paul Barman]

Boxing for life!
What?!

 

[Human Bass]

I actually blame the grapplers. If you dont use your superior position and control to attack the guy with strikes,you are being dumb. A position is not only good because of submissions, but because it allows you to hit without little risk of being hit back. That why mounti earns more points than sidecontrol. See how Gunnar understood that and used the mount to obliterate the last guy.

 

[German Supplex]

Just saw the new TUF, and all I can say, is Dana White is absolutely making it known that grapplers aren't welcome in UFC.

First: The red fighter DOMINATED the blue fighter. For 10 minutes of 2 rounds, he had the guys back for at least 8 minutes of them. Total domination. SOMEHOW they gave that a tie, and gave it a 3rd round. White says "Good for the judges". WHAT??? This fight wasn't even close. Red only scored "strikes" by throwing little light punches behind his own head onto the guy who was holding his back and attempting chokes for 80% of the fight.

Second: The only damage done by blue was from illegal elbows. Elbows red could have used...but didn't, because they are illegal.

Red fighter had the opponents back for probably 12 of 15 minutes, and was NEVER at any point in the fight in any danger of losing. Blue was dominated on the ground, nearly choked several times, and if there was no time limit, he probably never would have gotten up and would've eventually been choked or beaten because he was so clearly outclassed on the ground.


Afterward, White says "I hate guys who just lay on you and wrestle".

And there it is boys. UFC is now officially K-1....with some occasional grappling.

UFC just absolutely ROBBED a fighter of a win. Simply because he dominated on the ground.

UFC is now a striking sport, glorified kickboxing. I'm just about officially done forever with it.

That just goes to show you that simply having position doesn't guarantee you a win.

Simply having position doesn't necessitate damaging/beating up your opponent either. It's ironic that Red had position but still got busted open by Blue who was supposedly in an "inferior" position.

What it boils down to is damage. If you can knock someone out from bottom side control, inside someones guard, or cut someone up from them having your back such as this case, so be it. Red got hurt and got his ass kicked despite having better positioning and thats what counts in MMA. This wasn't a grappling match.

 

[Garnett Silk]

Maia is still employed by the UFC.....he lost his last two fights and doesn't have a high finishing rate. Jacare, Teixeira, Barnett, Mir, Gonzaga, Weidman all grapplers with huge fan bases.....I don't see how UFC doesn't like grapplers.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Maia is still employed by the UFC.....he lost his last two fights and doesn't have a high finishing rate. Jacare, Teixeira, Barnett, Mir, Gonzaga, Weidman all grapplers with huge fan bases.....I don't see how UFC doesn't like grapplers.

he took care of fitch, big ass favor to dana.

 

[kintana]

How many people can really follow grappling?

I heard Ronda's mom talk about Judo. And she said her husband thought Judo was a bunch of guys grabbing each other and moving then one of them wins. My friends have seen me do BJJ and grappling tournaments unless i submit they can't follow the fight.

Everybody can follow a striking match because it is easy to tell who wins or his winning.

The more viewers the UFC the better the money hence better for MMA and the fighters. I wish more people understood grappling but they dont.

 

[Rod1]

he took care of fitch, big ass favor to dana.

So? fact is that if you are a grappler and doing nothing with position you are only playing cuddles.

If you are a grappler that actively hunts for submissions and strikes, you are exciting and you keep your job.

 

[Rod1]

UFC is not against grappling, is against people trying to convert a fight into a grappling match and who think they are being robbed because the judges arent scoring it as a wrestling/judo/BJJ match.

 

[German Supplex]

Maia is still employed by the UFC.....he lost his last two fights and doesn't have a high finishing rate. Jacare, Teixeira, Barnett, Mir, Gonzaga, Weidman all grapplers with huge fan bases.....I don't see how UFC doesn't like grapplers.

Fabricio Werdum, Cain Velasquez, Dan Henderson, Ronda Rousey, Dan Cormier, Chael Sonnen, Yoel Romero, etc etc in addition to the ones you named.

The UFC doesn't have anything against grapplers. They have everything against stallers and point scorers it seems, though.

 

[georgejjr]

I cant honestly refer to UFC fighters as "The best fighters in the world" anymore. They're great, for sure. But its so bias towards strikers now. And....boxing, K1, Muay Thai has plenty of pure strikers who would out-strike many UFC fighters.

They never were the best fighters in the world. The best fighters in the world use weapons and numbers. Humans learned hundreds of thousands of years ago that serious fighting is done with weapons.

MMA is a sport, and like all sports, its rules are arbitrary. Why is an uncoverted touchdown worth 6 points and a field goal 3? Why do you get three strikes in baseball? Someone decided those rules made for better sports.

Same with current MMA rules. Its not about fighting, hasn't been since the Roman gladiators, and probably never will be. Its about selling PPV's.

Want more grappling in MMA? All it takes is to get people to watch matches with a lot of grappling; the UFC and other organizations will happily follow. They're not biased for or against any style, they're biased to making money.

And its not just technical grappling they don't like. They came down on Condit for his fight with Diaz, which was technically very smart striking. GSP was taking heat for just jabbing people at the end of his career too.

If fans uneducated in the techniques can't follow it, the UFC doesn't want it. That goes beyond striking and grappling.

 

[aries]

I think you should allow pretty much all the stuff they've taken away from MMA, headbutts, knees to a grounded opponent, soccer kicks, strikes to the back of the head and 6-12 elbows (the most ridiculous one). This would really give good grapplers a lot more attacking options and open up more submission attempts. This business of giving a guy your back to get out of mount is only safer because you can't strike the back of the head. In a real fight it's the worst position you could be in. In MMA it can be a fairly safe since it's pretty difficult to get RNC's. Too many rules these days.

 

[Human Bass]

I think you should allow pretty much all the stuff they've taken away from MMA, headbutts, knees to a grounded opponent, soccer kicks, strikes to the back of the head and 6-12 elbows (the most ridiculous one). This would really give good grapplers a lot more attacking options and open up more submission attempts. This business of giving a guy your back to get out of mount is only safer because you can't strike the back of the head. In a real fight it's the worst position you could be in. In MMA it can be a fairly safe since it's pretty difficult to get RNC's. Too many rules these days.

Knees to the head all the time and 12-6 elbows against the body (quite good on of deep-half) would make things great already.

 

[Rod1]

I think you should allow pretty much all the stuff they've taken away from MMA, headbutts, knees to a grounded opponent, soccer kicks, strikes to the back of the head and 6-12 elbows (the most ridiculous one). This would really give good grapplers a lot more attacking options and open up more submission attempts. This business of giving a guy your back to get out of mount is only safer because you can't strike the back of the head. In a real fight it's the worst position you could be in. In MMA it can be a fairly safe since it's pretty difficult to get RNC's. Too many rules these days.

And they should allow steel pipes, shanks and sidekicks entering from backstage to join the fight when you are losing. Because realism.

 

[Protectandserve]

Just watching this fight now. In round 1 red did not throw a single strike on the ground and blue never even looked mildly uncomfortable from those RNC attempts. Round 2 red landed a few soft strikes , maybe 10 total and again, never threatened with a choke. He had the arm around the neck but was never close to a finish.

Positional domination but did almost nothing useful with it.