UFC 308: Topuria vs. Holloway

[mkess101]

So styles make fights, people still realize that right?

If you were gonna come up with a fighter to nullify Topuria, what would the important traits be for that guy?

1. A granite chin. Topuria hits like a truck and in a 5 round fight, you're not gonna completely avoid exchanges in the pocket. You can choose not to engage in them too often, but it's the nature of the game that they'll happen. Better have a chin that's sturdy as hell.
2. Great counter grappling. The ability to use range and angles to limit Ilia's ability to get to the hips and take you down. And the experience and years of knowing every trick in the book to get back up if you do happen to be taken down.
3. Great cardio. It's a 5 round fight against a guy who's never had to fight 25 grueling minutes. The ability to push a pace and try to drag him to deep waters because he's essentially been the bully every time out. Always the hammer, never the nail.
4. Big fight experience. Having been there, done that. The ability to not only not be overwhelmed by the moment, but to relish it and know that you've been there before. That a war under the bright lights is nothing new, and if you do face some adversity you've seen it all plenty of times.

Where is Max really lacking in any of these areas?

 

[Hellowhosthat]

So styles make fights, people still realize that right?

If you were gonna come up with a fighter to nullify Topuria, what would the important traits be for that guy?

1. A granite chin. Topuria hits like a truck and in a 5 round fight, you're not gonna completely avoid exchanges in the pocket. You can choose not to engage in them too often, but it's the nature of the game that they'll happen. Better have a chin that's sturdy as hell.
2. Great counter grappling. The ability to use range and angles to limit Ilia's ability to get to the hips and take you down. And the experience and years of knowing every trick in the book to get back up if you do happen to be taken down.
3. Great cardio. It's a 5 round fight against a guy who's never had to fight 25 grueling minutes. The ability to push a pace and try to drag him to deep waters because he's essentially been the bully every time out. Always the hammer, never the nail.
4. Big fight experience. Having been there, done that. The ability to not only not be overwhelmed by the moment, but to relish it and know that you've been there before. That a war under the bright lights is nothing new, and if you do face some adversity you've seen it all plenty of times.

Where is Max really lacking in any of these areas?

For me I'd be looking for a really good wrestler who can take him down or someone who's got really good kicks and can work at range, especially hard calf kicks.

I don't really like anyone in boxing range against him.

 

[mkess101]

For me I'd be looking for a really good wrestler who can take him down or someone who's got really good kicks and can work at range, especially hard calf kicks.

I don't really like anyone in boxing range against him.

With his build and grappling ability, you'd need better than a "really good" wrestler imo. You'd need the 145 lb version of Khabib. Like, imo Evloev isn't even good enough to do it and he's a pretty damn good wrestler. Mitchell has nullified most guys with his grappling and Ilia shut his shit down easily.

Max doesn't have good kicks and I'd agree if he did that would benefit him but the issue with throwing kicks vs a guy like Ilia is that once he gets the timing, you're gonna eat straight punches when you throw those low kicks. Max can work at range but uses his jab instead.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

With his build and grappling ability, you'd need better than a "really good" wrestler imo. You'd need the 145 lb version of Khabib. Like, imo Evloev isn't even good enough to do it and he's a pretty damn good wrestler. Mitchell has nullified most guys with his grappling and Ilia shut his shit down easily.

Max doesn't have good kicks and I'd agree if he did that would benefit him but the issue with throwing kicks vs a guy like Ilia is that once he gets the timing, you're gonna eat straight punches when you throw those low kicks. Max can work at range but uses his jab instead.

Yeah I think the issue with Bryce is he's not an explosive grappler. I think an explosive and strong wrestler like Islam Omarov would be interesting.

I tend to agree that if anyone has a chance with Ilia in boxing range it's probably Max, I'm just sceptical if anyone can beat him there.

 

[Thesnake101]

Yeah I think the issue with Bryce is he's not an explosive grappler. I think an explosive and strong wrestler like Islam Omarov would be interesting.

I tend to agree that if anyone has a chance with Ilia in boxing range it's probably Max, I'm just sceptical if anyone can beat him there.

On paper Ilia seems like absolute poison for any grappler/wrestler. Aside from his top notch killer instinct and boxing he's got a background in wrestling and a BJJ black belt if I'm not mistaken. Current judging criteria would also favor Topuria's approach unless he got controlled for most of the fight, which I have a hard time seeing given how good he's looked before.

I think Max has the best style to beat Ilia even if his defense can leave something to be desired at times. If he can't defeat Ilia then I think we're heading for a long reign.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

On paper Ilia seems like absolute poison for any grappler/wrestler. Aside from his top notch killer instinct and boxing he's got a background in wrestling and a BJJ black belt if I'm not mistaken. Current judging criteria would also favor Topuria's approach unless he got controlled for most of the fight, which I have a hard time seeing given how good he's looked before.

I think Max has the best style to beat Ilia even if his defense can leave something to be desired at times. If he can't defeat Ilia then I think we're heading for a long reign.

Yeah, I tend to think we're heading for a long reign. He's a superb fighter really.

 

[Stat_Collector]

Volk outstruck Max too though. Are we worried about Max landing a bunch of leg kicks here?

he attacks the body and leg with kicks, they aren't damaging, but they win rounds.

And Ilia doesn't kick much in return, he's a boxer with the occasional leg kick.

 

[mkess101]

Kennedy/Barnett over 1.5 at + odds.

Kennedy is a massive favorite, but he's not a guy who blitzes dudes and hunts early stoppages. He's patient and looks to counter or wear the opponent down. And now he's moving up to HW, will his power carry up? This has the feel of a fight that goes past 2 rounds to me.

 

[Guld]

Looks like Rinat vs Ruziboev is scratched.
Same thing with Nurmagomedov vs Santos.

Now it's Rinat vs. Leal

(Maybe everyone knew this, but it's news to me lol)

 

[mkess101]

Looks like Rinat vs Ruziboev is scratched.
Same thing with Nurmagomedov vs Santos.

Now it's Rinat vs. Leal

(Maybe everyone knew this, but it's news to me lol)

Ha yeah. Already odds on Rinat/Leal

 

[Thesnake101]

Ha yeah. Already odds on Rinat/Leal

+180 for Leal is more than playable for me, gonna wait a bit more though. Money should come in on Rinat.

 

[mkess101]

+180 for Leal is more than playable for me, gonna wait a bit more though. Money should come in on Rinat.

Feels like 29-28 Rinat but yeah Leal +200 or so is a play.

 

[guesswhoseback]

Yeah, I tend to think we're heading for a long reign. He's a superb fighter really.

Lol didn't you say the same thing about omalley and Edwards

 

[Hellowhosthat]

Lol didn't you say the same thing about omalley and Edwards

Nope

 

[guesswhoseback]

Nope

Hmmm...must of been hellowhosethat lol your evil twin

 

[Hellowhosthat]

Hmmm...must of been hellowhosethat lol your evil twin

I am wrong about things all the time but those are not things I was wrong about.

 

[guesswhoseback]

I am wrong about things all the time but those are not things I was wrong about.

Lol just messing around man

 

[Stat_Collector]

So styles make fights, people still realize that right?

If you were gonna come up with a fighter to nullify Topuria, what would the important traits be for that guy?

1. A granite chin. Topuria hits like a truck and in a 5 round fight, you're not gonna completely avoid exchanges in the pocket. You can choose not to engage in them too often, but it's the nature of the game that they'll happen. Better have a chin that's sturdy as hell.
2. Great counter grappling. The ability to use range and angles to limit Ilia's ability to get to the hips and take you down. And the experience and years of knowing every trick in the book to get back up if you do happen to be taken down.
3. Great cardio. It's a 5 round fight against a guy who's never had to fight 25 grueling minutes. The ability to push a pace and try to drag him to deep waters because he's essentially been the bully every time out. Always the hammer, never the nail.
4. Big fight experience. Having been there, done that. The ability to not only not be overwhelmed by the moment, but to relish it and know that you've been there before. That a war under the bright lights is nothing new, and if you do face some adversity you've seen it all plenty of times.

Where is Max really lacking in any of these areas?

Max has 4 inch height too.

Tuporia punches very low . he had to bite down and slip underneath to catch Herbert , and was dropped earlier.

On the same side Max has to be careful too because Tuporia is good at timing punches and slipping to get a heavy overhand.

It would help to watch more tape of Max and how he deals with short fighters.

The Volk fights comes to mind.

 

[sonhow]

I like how people are betting Murphy with what seems like big bucks considering his line has went down a lot in last few days -and the fight isnt even happening! Shows how much people are just betting blind. But at the same time why is the line still up?

 

[mkess101]

Max has 4 inch height too.

Tuporia punches very low . he had to bite down and slip underneath to catch Herbert , and was dropped earlier.

On the same side Max has to be careful too because Tuporia is good at timing punches and slipping to get a heavy overhand.

It would help to watch more tape of Max and how he deals with short fighters.

The Volk fights comes to mind.

They do, but Volk used leg kicks a crazy amount in at least 2 of the 3 fights. Ilia doesn't really do that so it's not the best comparison imo. Ilia seems to want to feint his way into the pocket to throw power shots in tight. Volk is that rare short guy that uses leg kicks and timing to fight well at distance.