UFC 205 - Conor vs Alvarez - NY

[t6p]

I disagree with firas about the cardio. Not about the fact that mcgregor did indeed have cardio problems in both the diaz fights and also around a similar timeframe. The thing I disagree with is him saying with a fair amount of confidence that his cardiovascular system will probably look the same in the alvarez fight simply because this was his most recent fight and the quick turnaround.

The only reason I am disagreeing with him is simply because this fight is at lightweight and not at welterweight (I found it odd he didn't mention this) . I've gone back and watched some tape on mcgregor in his cage warrior days when he was fighting at lightweight and he most definitely looked leaner there than he did in both diaz fights.

Mcgregor looked great against holloway for 3 rounds with no signs of fatigue and with a high output as well. I believe firas mentions this also. Of course this is at featherweight.

Point I'm trying to make is that his cardio is a bit of an unkown at lightweight. I just don't think it is justified to make strong claims either way.

Good points. Another example would be the Mendes fight, which was only a few seconds away from going to the third round and Conor basically spent the entire second round on his back. His cardio held up well enough there to escape Chad's attempt at a choke and drop him almost immediately when they stood back up. I agree that his cardio is an unknown at this point at 155. Granted, Eddie's cardio looked amazing in his 5 round wars with Chandler but I feel it's been overstated in his UFC tenure thus far.

Another reason I'm favoring Conor here is that Eddie just gets hit so damn much. Virtually every fight he's been hit and hit hard. He's going to have to really execute his gameplan to get this done IMO. That said, I do agree with @LEMONZEST that LNP is his most likely path to victory.

 

[plekz]

Point I'm trying to make

''point'' you should have made (assuming you have eyes) is that conor was alot younger then, and have since put on muscle (it happens naturally as someone grows into their frame while continously lifting) second ''point'' is that he didn't have a very high output against holloway, and he dictated the pace of that fight completly from bell one through two all the way to three. and any grappling that took place conor was working from top.

 

[LEMONZEST]

Plekz - what are your thoughts on the fight? Who is your pick?

to all - I do agree that Eddie is hittable and a KO early is possible. I am just trusting Eddie to be experienced enough and cautious enough to avoid it. You have to look at the Aldo KO with some measure of respect and mind your p's and q's with Conor. 13s is fast...

 

[SBJJ]

Man. Remember when stuff like Mcgregor can't win a decision were being thrown around before the 2nd Diaz fight.

Keep in mind Conor might look a lot better at 155 than he did at 170

 

[cCrown]

''point'' you should have made (assuming you have eyes) is that conor was alot younger then, and have since put on muscle (it happens naturally as someone grows into their frame while continously lifting) second ''point'' is that he didn't have a very high output against holloway, and he dictated the pace of that fight completly from bell one through two all the way to three. and any grappling that took place conor was working from top.

Someone does not magically put on muscle because they "grow" into their frame as a consequence of continuous lifting. I could lift for years but still look the same. Muscle will be built if there is an intent to actually build muscle through progressive overload (muscle density however is a consequence of continuous lifting). Muscle does not get built by the mere practice of lifting weights unless you are an absolute beginner and by definition there is progressive overload. So unless he did not use any weight training back in the cage warrior days or he has changed his weight lifting routine there is no reason to assume he has more muscle. I'm not saying that he hasn't but not because of the reason you stated.

Ill concede that mcgregor did not have high output throughout all 3 rounds. But for almost 2 rounds he most certainly did. Up until the first 3 minutes of the second round it all took place on the feet. The last two minutes of round 2 were an active two minutes on the ground although like you mentioned he was working from the top. Round 3 was almost entirely on the ground. In the diaz fights he was dominating as well(more so in the second than the first) until he gassed but probably not to the same extent as with holloway.

I do however still maintain my initial position that there is too little (convincing) evidence to make strong claims either way.

 

[plekz]

Plekz - what are your thoughts on the fight? Who is your pick?

to all - I do agree that Eddie is hittable and a KO early is possible. I am just trusting Eddie to be experienced enough and cautious enough to avoid it. You have to look at the Aldo KO with some measure of respect and mind your p's and q's with Conor. 13s is fast...

conor in the first 10 or he loses. and i don't put it out of the question that eddie can get him out of there in those first 10 either. eddie has good solid boxing, good fundamentals. and is way faster then diaz. and he's an accomplished well versed grappler both bjj and wrestling.

magically

never said magically, quit acting like a pissy brat, just because someone smacked you in the mouth when you tried to claim one and one makes three on the internet. in closing, it's a complete waste of time when you are trying to compare fights against elite competition, to a max holloway fresh out of a fucking garage on hawaii with few fights and not even a proper camp.

the two diaz fights, quite clearly shows that conor gasses, period. it's extremely unlikely he'll all of a sudden be even fresher when he has to cut down to 155, and keep a higher energy output, when he's failed to do so @ 145 (looked far from fresh at the end of the mendes fight and quite winded) and he definetly didn't do it either of the times he fought diaz (where he didn't have to cut weight, ate cake and deserts the first fight, claimed gassing was because of this, and then gassed again in the 2nd fight)

and yeah, people who cannot use simple logical reasoning to create a proper train of thought iirks the fuck out of me.

 

[cCrown]

conor in the first 10 or he loses. and i don't put it out of the question that eddie can get him out of there in those first 10 either. eddie has good solid boxing, good fundamentals. and is way faster then diaz. and he's an accomplished well versed grappler both bjj and wrestling.



never said magically, quit acting like a pissy brat, just because someone smacked you in the mouth when you tried to claim one and one makes three on the internet. in closing, it's a complete waste of time when you are trying to compare fights against elite competition, to a max holloway fresh out of a fucking garage on hawaii with few fights and not even a proper camp.

the two diaz fights, quite clearly shows that conor gasses, period. it's extremely unlikely he'll all of a sudden be even fresher when he has to cut down to 155, and keep a higher energy output, when he's failed to do so @ 145 (looked far from fresh at the end of the mendes fight and quite winded) and he definetly didn't do it either of the times he fought diaz (where he didn't have to cut weight, ate cake and deserts the first fight, claimed gassing was because of this, and then gassed again in the 2nd fight)

and yeah, people who cannot use simple logical reasoning to create a proper train of thought iirks the fuck out of me.

What is your problem man. I answered in a polite and logical manner (which you obviously disagree with apparently) to your first post which was already pretty passive agressive to begin with for whatever reason. I treated you with respect even when you didn't from the get go.

The way you phrased your argument does imply that continous lifting in and of itself leads to muscle gains which in my opinion means you are creating muscle out of thin air unless there is progressive overload in some form so the word magically is completely appropriate given the context and was in no way meant as an insult.

I never said that mcgregor did not gas, i clearly said that he did TWICE. It's fine that you think it's unlikely that he will be fresher at 155 given his fights at 145. Let's agree to disagree here on the basis of a difference of interpretation of available evidence.

 

[EzFlyer]

Just hit these:

0.25u Conor RD2 +625
0.5u KK Decision +530
0.25u Stephens Decision +850

If Conor finishes Eddie it'll probably be in the first round or two. KK probably loses but I still see value there when it's her only real path to victory. Edgar has never been finished and that fight is most likely going the distance so again, I see value at +850.

yet another good prop spot by you, ty, i'm on KK DEC +530, too. 0.4u - she can't finish a tuna sandwich. but she can win 3 rds vs jj.

 

[mkess101]

Eddie obviously has his blueprint to beat Conor. Basically just a replay of his fight with Pettis but over 5 rounds instead of 3. He's certainly capable. But I do think Conor catches him and hurts him and finishes. Eddie is tough as hell though and as Plekz pointed out has very solid boxing of his own.


Conor itd +101
Eddit dec +460
Conor rd 2 +625

Like all of these.

 

[PuertoRican]

What is your problem man. I answered in a polite and logical manner (which you obviously disagree with apparently) to your first post which was already pretty passive agressive to begin with for whatever reason. I treated you with respect even when you didn't from the get go.

The way you phrased your argument does imply that continous lifting in and of itself leads to muscle gains which in my opinion means you are creating muscle out of thin air unless there is progressive overload in some form so the word magically is completely appropriate given the context and was in no way meant as an insult.

I never said that mcgregor did not gas, i clearly said that he did TWICE. It's fine that you think it's unlikely that he will be fresher at 155 given his fights at 145. Let's agree to disagree here on the basis of a difference of interpretation of available evidence.

If you don't like to argue, then don't acknowledge him. He's one of the drama queens in this forum and will generally act like an idiot when someone questions his intelligence and attempts to have a civilized conversation.

 

[SBJJ]

I can't believe posters are actually saying Conor can't win a decision here. He just won a 5 rounder against Diaz at 170

 

[bruthead]

People saying Conor might have better cardio at lightweight. Won't he weigh similar in the cage as the Diaz fights? Given he only weighed in at 168 both times when he could have been 171.

 

[SBJJ]

People saying Conor might have better cardio at lightweight. Won't he weigh similar in the cage as the Diaz fights? Given he only weighed in at 168 both times when he could have been 171.

Whole thing is it is harder to hit the cardio during training if u are eating your way up to 170. He even said he did that.

But I find it so crazy that people think he can't win a decision against Eddie when he won a 5 rounder against one of the best 5 round fighters on the planet.

And Eddie probably won't weigh 190 like Diaz did

 

[NinjaCat456]

I can't believe posters are actually saying Conor can't win a decision here. He just won a 5 rounder against Diaz at 170

Agree. Conor is the poster boy for the organisation after all, if they can find a way to bum Eddie out of a decision they'll do it.

Providing it gets out the 1st round I'm going for Conor by controversial split decision.

 

[plekz]

Whole thing

he can't use that gameplan against eddie, nor can he really use anything else he's shown in previous fights to get him to last 25 minutes and pick up a decision, barring he clips eddie real early and then eddie just refuses to go away. (kind of like penn did with sanchez or t.j did barao in the first fight, where they were practicly over from early on, but both were to tough for their own good so they hung in there 20+ more minutes)

and if it isn't for two knockdowns in round 2 (where diaz just got sat on his ass, and popped back up, and showed no sign of being shaken afterwards) he very likely loses that fight against diaz. and if we are talking about 'how' he made it through diaz the second time? then compared to eddies grappling in terms of takedowns, then diaz ability to get takedowns is abyssmal, and extremely easy to defend against compared to someone who can actually chain wrestle and who shoots blasts from all kinda angles. (that would be eddie)

-----------

rican: there's nothing 'drama' about it, it's just nonsensical creating 'what if' scenarios that have no basis in reality based on past footage, you are basicly making assessments based on your 'hopes' and 'dreams' which is daft. and if that's the basis for it all, then i can also create a theory where eddie wins this fight by 20 feet piledriver ending with a laser barrage, all it would require for it to actually happen is that we place it in a reality where people develop x-facor like mutations or put it in a dream simalcurium and we are there.

bottom line is, he ate cake and deserts for the first diaz fight, claimed he gassed as a result, then spent 300k on a camp for the 2nd fight, claimed he was eating well, doing everything 'military style' and guess what? still gassed out badly, the only difference is he didn't deflate like a baloon the 2nd time around when he got hit, plus he'd also done enough damage to where he could last in there with diaz to make it to the bell.

now if you watch both these fights, and your conclusion is still that conor's cardio is (?) then you are a daftie. when the same thing happens, at the exact same point, two fights in a row? that's not coincidence anymore, it's signs of a pattern, which weighs alot more heavily then a singular instance years past.

 

[Sham5916910]

Plekz you always make massive argumentative posts when conor is fighting and you are always wrong

 

[SBJJ]

he can't use that gameplan against eddie, nor can he really use anything else he's shown in previous fights to get him to last 25 minutes and pick up a decision, barring he clips eddie real early and then eddie just refuses to go away. (kind of like penn did with sanchez or t.j did barao in the first fight, where they were practicly over from early on, but both were to tough for their own good so they hung in there 20+ more minutes)

and if it isn't for two knockdowns in round 2 (where diaz just got sat on his ass, and popped back up, and showed no sign of being shaken afterwards) he very likely loses that fight against diaz. and if we are talking about 'how' he made it through diaz the second time? then compared to eddies grappling in terms of takedowns, then diaz ability to get takedowns is abyssmal, and extremely easy to defend against compared to someone who can actually chain wrestle and who shoots blasts from all kinda angles. (that would be eddie)

-----------

rican: there's nothing 'drama' about it, it's just nonsensical creating 'what if' scenarios that have no basis in reality based on past footage, you are basicly making assessments based on your 'hopes' and 'dreams' which is daft. and if that's the basis for it all, then i can also create a theory where eddie wins this fight by 20 feet piledriver ending with a laser barrage, all it would require for it to actually happen is that we place it in a reality where people develop x-facor like mutations or put it in a dream simalcurium and we are there.

bottom line is, he ate cake and deserts for the first diaz fight, claimed he gassed as a result, then spent 300k on a camp for the 2nd fight, claimed he was eating well, doing everything 'military style' and guess what? still gassed out badly, the only difference is he didn't deflate like a baloon the 2nd time around when he got hit, plus he'd also done enough damage to where he could last in there with diaz to make it to the bell.

now if you watch both these fights, and your conclusion is still that conor's cardio is (?) then you are a daftie. when the same thing happens, at the exact same point, two fights in a row? that's not coincidence anymore, it's signs of a pattern, which weighs alot more heavily then a singular instance years past.

W
H
A
T
THE
F
U
C
K
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Sham5916910]

W
H
A
T
THE
F
U
C
K
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If it wasnt for two knockdowns in r2 is my fav part!

 

[bruthead]

If it wasnt for two knockdowns in r2 is my fav part!

I'm with plekz here. If McGregor hadn't done the things he did to win that fight, he would have lost the fight.

 

[sonhow]

Rashad on Conor at ww

"Another problem was the fact that he didn’t have to cut weight," he said. "Now every single thing that goes into a fight is a process. For me, putting on my suit — making sure I’m suited and booted before I go out there — that helps me get to my rhythm so then I’m not analyzing every aspect of a fight before it’s time to. So for him not cutting weight, for him not having that on his mind, he then put other things on his plate that he wouldn’t normally do because he was cutting weight.

"And then, if you add the physical attributes to it, you have a guy in Conor McGregor who is dominating at his weight class because really, he’s tall and he as a cannon for his left hand. But he makes people make mistakes because he leads them to believe that he’s a lot closer than he is and then he pulls back, and then he catches them reaching. He’s either able to catch them with counter strikes or he makes them have a huge range to fulfill."

http://www.mmafighting.com/2016/3/1...gregor-was-putting-on-too-much-before-ufc-196