Economy Trump's April 2nd Tariffs

I'll throw in my 2 cents on tariffs. Tariffs are actually a good thing when applied in an intelligent and logical way, as was done by Britain during the industrial revolution and the US from the mid 1800s to around 1950 or so. When done properly it encourages domestic investment in production & technology, but there are certain conditions which have to be met to make things work.

The first condition is we need to have existing production in our country for the stuff were tariffing. For example, the US has no domestic production of titanium or any sources of it on our land so putting tariffs on Chinese & Russian titanium isn't going to create any jobs or production in the US, all it'll do is make everything more expensive for our aerospace companies. Tariffs on machine tools on the other hand would make sense since US has several domestic manufacturers but they can't compete against the cheap stuff from China. What we could do in that case is put a small 5% tariff on machine tools from friendly nations such as Japan & Germany while hitting China with 100% tariff on their tools. At the same time we offer some buy American subsidies to encourage domestic investment & production of machine tools, over time, this will increase domestic production and bring costs down while creating well paying jobs for Americans.

Next, we have to decide which parts of our economy are worth investing in and which parts can be left to other nations. For instance, does it make sense to make toilet brushes in the US or is it better to let China make it for cheap and import it for a dollar? For some things it'll be obvious, anything related to the defence industry should be 100% domestic from start to finish, aerospace is the same, but for stuff like computers or consumer electronics there's an argument to be made either way.

We then go through every sector of our economy like this and apply the tariffs accordingly against various nations. This was an important part of how Britain and the US became industrial superpowers, both nations figured out what was important to their industry & economies and applied tariffs accordingly to encourage investment and improve production & quality. That's the right way to do it. Trump's throwing shit at a wall tariffs are going to be a failure since they don't take any of the above into account.

The only reason for blanket tariffs is to save an industry is when its strategic as in a sudden cut off can fuck you up badly and that's still better done via subsidies or simply by having government set strategic reserves to manipulate prices to keep them competitive.

Command economies fail because government is too slow to react and because markets are extremely complex to really understand the ramifications of planned economies.

Take your examples of machine tools, they are inputs for other industries and if the US government is artificially tampering the economy the costs get passed down the line, now the US industries that depend on machine tools and need to use expensive American tools stop being competitive, so the US does a knee jerk reaction and tariffs the fuck out of the competition, but then there are other industries who depend on that secondary industry etc, etc.

Tariffs are best left to be used against nations that do unfair market practices and as a tool of soft power.
 
I would hope so , everyone should want the president to succeed no matter the party.

Everyone wants the president to succeed except MAGAtards who cheer and defend even the most stupid decisions made by Donald J Trump.

The economy is going to shit because nobody on the GOP has the balls to tell the president "Don't do that, its stupid as FUCK".
 
Seeing other heavies mods in here made me think of you, not to put you on the spot but I’d be curious your thoughts on this @Zebra Cheeks as you’re a good and reasonable guy and I think(?) voted Trump last election?
Bro I am so fucking confused right now I have no idea what’s going on. My wife keeps watching these Tik toks from time travelers telling us to flee the country before we get fucked my Canada, and she’s buying these crank batteries in case the grid gets shut down. And I guess everyone’s rioting but they won’t show it even though it was cool on 2020 I guess?

I try my best to keep up, but it’s like everyday there’s a million new stories to sort through and I have no idea wtf is going on.
 
#TrumpPuts closed at +37%. Thank you Old Ass Idiot and the Dum Dum’s who elected you. Thanks Fox for convincing the Dum Dums a guy who failed at 2 casinos is a financial wizard. What a day for my bank account today.
Also thanks Warren Buffet for showing me the way to make money off of Trump
 
I mean, the reason countries import products from elsewhere is literally price.

The US is big enough to have it's own manufacturing industry, but it certainly can't afford to manufacture everything - nor should it want to.

It doesn't even make sense.

It would literally be the most expensive place in the world unless you're gonna find some good US-born citizens prepared to compete with wages in Bangladeshi sweatshops.

US citizens mostly won't want to do those jobs anyway if we're being honest.
 
Curious. If jobs were one of the key parts of Trump putting on the tariffs was to increase American jobs why not go after the offshore jobs instead of tariffs on products? When I say offshore jobs I mean the jobs where American companies hire someone who works and lives offshore to deal with American based clients if they have qualified workers for the jobs in the country already? Wasn't that a big complaint during the Bush 2 administration?
 
The only reason for blanket tariffs is to save an industry is when its strategic as in a sudden cut off can fuck you up badly and that's still better done via subsidies or simply by having government set strategic reserves to manipulate prices to keep them competitive.

Command economies fail because government is too slow to react and because markets are extremely complex to really understand the ramifications of planned economies.

Take your examples of machine tools, they are inputs for other industries and if the US government is artificially tampering the economy the costs get passed down the line, now the US industries that depend on machine tools and need to use expensive American tools stop being competitive, so the US does a knee jerk reaction and tariffs the fuck out of the competition, but then there are other industries who depend on that secondary industry etc, etc.

Tariffs are best left to be used against nations that do unfair market practices and as a tool of soft power.
- Honestly Trump team is very incompetent. They cant strong arm the world, we aren't in 1950. Every economist alerted how those tarifs were bad.
 

Asian countries riven by war and disaster face some of steepest Trump tariffs​

Myanmar, Cambodia and Laos hit with rates over 40% as experts say the real target is China

Kate Lamb and Rebecca Ratcliffe in Bangkok

Developing nations in south-east Asia, including wartorn and earthquake-hit Myanmar, and several African nations are among the trading partners facing the highest tariffs set by Donald Trump.

Upending decades of US trade policy and threatening to unleash a global trade war, the US president announced a raft of tariffs on Wednesday that he said were designed to stop the US economy from being “cheated”.

“This is one of the most important days, in my opinion, in American history,” said Trump on Wednesday. “It’s our declaration of economic independence.”
He hailed the moment as “liberation day”, but the tariffs are likely to be met with loud protests from some of the world’s weakest economies. One expert said Trump was likely to be targeting countries that received investment from China, regardless of the situation in that country. Chinese manufacturers have previously relocated to countries such as Vietnam and Cambodia not only due to lower operating costs, but also to avoid tariffs.

The tariffs come as many countries in south-east Asia are already grappling with the fallout from the cuts to USAID, which provides humanitarian assistance to a region vulnerable to natural disasters and support for pro-democracy activists battling repressive regimes.

Cambodia, a developing economy where 17.8% of the population live below the poverty line, according to the Asian Development Bank (ADB), is the worst-hit country in the region with a tariff rate of 49%. More than half of the country’s factories are reportedly Chinese-owned, with the countries exports dominated by garments and footwear.

Next worse-hit is the landlocked south-east Asian nation of Laos, a country heavily bombed by the US during the cold war, with 48%. According to the ADB, Laos has a poverty rate of 18.3%.

Not far behind is Vietnam with 46% and Myanmar, a nation reeling from a devastating earthquake on Friday, and years of civil war following a 2021 military coup, with 44%.

Indonesia, the biggest economy in south-east Asia, faces a 32% tariff rate, while Thailand, the second-largest, has been hit with a rate of 36%.

Major US rival and trading partner China has been hit with a 34% reciprocal tariff, on top of the 20% levy already imposed.

Dr Siwage Dharma Negara, a senior fellow at the ISEAS-Yusof Ishak Institute in Singapore, said the tariffs on south-east Asian nations were intended to hurt China.

“The administration thinks that by targeting these countries they can target Chinese investment in countries like Cambodia, Laos, Myanmar, Indonesia. By targeting their products maybe it will affect Chinese exports and the economy,” he said.

“The real target is China but the real impact on those countries will be quite significant because this investment creates jobs and export revenue.”

Tariffs on countries such as Indonesia, he said, would be counterproductive for the US, and the detail of how they would be applied remained unclear.

“Some garments and footwear [companies] are American brands like Nike, or Adidas, US companies that have factories in Indonesia. Will they face the same tariffs as well?” he said.

Stephen Olson, a former US trade negotiator, said countries in south-east Asia would be forced to reconsider their relationships with Washington. “A closer tilt towards China could be the result. It’s hard to have constructive, productive relations with a country that has just dropped a ton of bricks on your head,” said Olson, a visiting senior fellow at the ISEAS – Yusof Ishak Institute.


“The world’s largest importer has now essentially hung a sign on its border saying ‘closed for business’,” he added. “We are now faced with two plausible scenarios: Either the impacted trade partners hold firm and retaliate in the hope that Trump will be forced to back down, or they look to cut deals with Trump in order to avoid the tariffs. It is unlikely that either scenario will end well.”

Other nations among the hardest hit are several nations in Africa, including Lesotho – a country that Trump claimed “nobody has ever heard of” – with 50%, Madagascar with 47% and Botswana with 37%. Lesotho, a small mountainous kingdom surrounded by South Africa, has the second-highest level of HIV infection of the world, with almost one in four adults HIV-positive.

In south Asia, Sri Lanka is facing a 44% tariff. In Europe, Serbia faces a 37% rate.

In addition to the reciprocal tariffs on a few dozen countries, Trump will impose a 10% universal tariff on all imported goods. That tariff will go into effect on 5 April, while the reciprocal tariffs will begin on 9 April.

The US president has justified the changes by saying they are retribution for countries that have long “cheated” America, and the levies will bring jobs back to the US.

But economists have warned the sweeping changes will raise costs, threaten jobs, slow growth and isolate the US from a system of global trade it pioneered, and furthered over several decades.

“This is how you sabotage the world’s economic engine while claiming to supercharge it,” said Nigel Green, the CEO of global financial advisory deVere Group.

“The reality is stark: these tariffs will push prices higher on thousands of everyday goods – from phones to food – and that will fuel inflation at a time when it is already uncomfortably persistent.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...ountries-biggest-rates-china-myanmar-mandalay
 
Curious. If jobs were one of the key parts of Trump putting on the tariffs was to increase American jobs why not go after the offshore jobs instead of tariffs on products? When I say offshore jobs I mean the jobs where American companies hire someone who works and lives offshore to deal with American based clients if they have qualified workers for the jobs in the country already? Wasn't that a big complaint during the Bush 2 administration?
- HIs tarifs cost already 900 jobs at Stellantis

https://www.reuters.com/business/au...f-900-us-workers-following-tariff-2025-04-03/
 
Everyone wants the president to succeed except MAGAtards who cheer and defend even the most stupid decisions made by Donald J Trump.

The economy is going to shit because nobody on the GOP has the balls to tell the president "Don't do that, its stupid as FUCK".
Can’t take off the partisan hat for 1 second huh , that’s cool bro do you . Some people have a serious case of TDS
 

Macron suggests pause on US investment as EU leaders condemn Trump tariffs​

Von der Leyen calls tariffs ‘a major blow to world economy’ while calling for last-ditch negotiations

Jennifer Rankin in Brussels and Sam Jones in Madrid

European leaders have condemned Donald Trump’s tariffs as “fundamentally wrong” and creating an “immense difficulty for Europe”, while appealing for last-ditch negotiations to avert an all-out trade war.

The French president, Emmanuel Macron, said Trump’s decision to impose tariffs was “brutal and unfounded” and appeared to call for a suspension of French investment in the US until the tariffs were clarified.


“Future investments, investments announced in the last weeks, should be suspended for a time for as long as the situation with the United States is not clarified,” Macron told a meeting of French companies.

Suggesting measures against the US tech sector “where the United States benefits enormously from Europe”, he added: “Nothing is excluded. All the elements are on the table.”

Spain’s prime minister, Pedro Sánchez, lambasted Donald Trump’s “protectionist” tariffs, saying they ran “contrary to the interests of millions of citizens on this side of the Atlantic and in the US, who will unfortunately see their businesses and their purchase power” affected by the measures.

In a strongly worded and defiant speech in Madrid on Thursday morning, Sánchez said the US administration did not distinguish between friends and enemies: “It goes against everyone and everything.”

Sánchez described the tariffs as an “unprecedented” and “unilateral” US attack on Europe, adding: “Returning to the protectionism of the 19th century isn’t a smart way of tackling the challenges of the 21st century.”

Germany’s outgoing chancellor, Olaf Scholz, said Trump’s decision was “fundamentally wrong” and “an attack on a trade system that has created prosperity all round the world, itself an American achievement”.

France’s prime minister, François Bayrou, said the tariffs were “an immense difficulty for Europe” as well as “a catastrophe for the United States and for US citizens”.

The head of the European Commission, Ursula von der Leyen, described the tariffs as “a major blow to the world economy” spelling “dire” consequences for millions of people. She said the EU was prepared to respond, but urged Trump to “move from confrontation to negotiation”.

The EU is expected to announce retaliatory tariffs on US consumer and industrial goods – likely to include emblematic products such as orange juice, blue jeans and Harley-Davidson motorbikes – in mid-April, in response to steel and aluminium tariffs previously announced by Trump.

The bloc has yet to respond to the 25% duties on EU cars that entered into force on 3 April, nor the latest round of reciprocal tariffs announced on Trump’s so-called “liberation day”, dubbed variously “inflation day” and “resentment day” by senior politicians in the European parliament.

The US president announced a 20% tariff on EU exports to the US on Wednesday as part of a sweeping set of measures targeting countries around the world, rich and poor, large and small.

The tariffs would affect 70% of all EU exports to the US, raising a theoretical €80bn (£67bn) for the US treasury, if trade remained unchanged, EU officials estimated.

Von der Leyen said the EU was “preparing for further countermeasures to protect our interests and our businesses if negotiations fail”.

The EU executive is facing growing calls to broaden its armoury by targeting US services, from tech companies to big banks.

Bernd Lange, the head of the European parliament’s international trade committee, said: “If we are really on an escalation ladder, then of course we will have a look to the tech giants as well,” although he added: “This is not the first choice.”

The German Social Democrat MEP, who travels to Washington next week, also favours negotiations, but is sceptical. He said only Trump and his trade adviser, Peter Navarro, controlled trade policy and until they were willing to take part in discussions, “negotiations are not possible – that’s really a mess”.

Lange also suggested Trump’s grievances went far beyond European tariffs, as the US’s stated grievances concerned EU legislation, from food law to safe internet rules. “This is of course not the ground for negotiation,” he said.

EU retaliation will have to be agreed by a weighted majority of member states, amid deep alarm over the consequences for European jobs and industry.

The Italian prime minister, Giorgia Meloni, who cleared her diary on Thursday to focus on the issue, said: “We will do everything we can to work towards an agreement with the United States, with the goal of avoiding a trade war that would inevitably weaken the west in favour of other global players.”

The Polish prime minister, Donald Tusk, described the tariffs as “a painful and bitter blow” that may reduce Polish GDP by 0.4%.

Belgium’s prime minister Bart De Wever said he hoped the western world would abandon “wealth-destroying protectionist madness” and cautioned against rushing into a trade war, saying “stupidity should not be met with stupidity”.

He also said that countermeasures were necessary, but should remain proportional.

The EU-US trade relationship was worth €1.6tn (£1.3tn) in 2023: the EU sells more goods to the US, a surplus of €154bn, thanks to cars and medicines, while the US has a €109bn surplus in services, reflecting the success of its banks and tech companies in Europe.

Senior EU officials declined to speculate on what further countermeasures could look like, but said nothing was off the table. “Retaliation is not a punishment. Retaliation is a means to an end,” said one senior EU official stressing the wish for a negotiated outcome.

Meanwhile, officials are seeking to finalise the first round of retaliatory tariffs amid national lobbying. Behind the scenes, France has been calling for US bourbon to be removed in the hope of avoiding a counter-punch against the French drinks industry. Trump threatened “200%” tariffs on wines, spirits and champagne from France and other EU countries when he learned of the plan to target US whiskey.

The commission is also facing questions over whether it will invoke for the first time the EU’s anti-coercion law, which gives the bloc wide leeway to impose trade and investment restrictions on a foreign government deemed to be using trade as a weapon.

This law could, in theory, allow the EU to revoke banking licences for large US banks, cancel US intellectual property rights in Europe and block US companies from bidding for European government contracts. It can be triggered only by a weighted majority of EU member states – a big step against an old ally many EU governments still hope to win round.

The EU’s most senior trade official, Maroš Šefčovič, is due to speak to his US counterparts on Friday. “We’ll act in a calm, carefully phased, unified way, as we calibrate our response, while allowing adequate time for talks. But we won’t stand idly by, should we be unable to reach a fair deal,” Šefčovič wrote on social media.

EU officials are also bracing for sectoral tariffs to hit three further industries: pharmaceutical, semiconductors and lumber.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...-wrong-european-leaders-condemn-trump-tariffs
 
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