International Trump/Vance or Zelensky - Who look the worst off in terms of public image by that Oval Office meeting?

[Stoic1]

Only president I can remember who is siding with with Putin and the Kremlin over their European “allies”

He could have found a way out of that much more gracefully and politically than he did. Can you at least admit that? Bickering with another leader in front of the world looks weak as fuck. Ambushing them makes your intentions look questionable.

I love America but I honestly don’t blame the Europeans for being freaked out at what they saw. This administration is a wild card and doesn’t look like a sane one that can be trusted yet.

You live in a binary world. It must be difficult.

"IF YOU AREN'T FOR UKRAINE YOU ARE ARE FOR RUSSIA!" "RUSSIA! RUSSIA! RUSSIA!"

Maybe Trump is pro-America. Maybe Trump doesn't want to escalate this vertically like Nuclear Macron. Maybe Trump wants to see the dust settle so we can see where our $$$ went or what the all biolabs are doing. Maybe this is a European problem, not an American problem.

And no, I will not admit this bickering was weak. What was weak was all the blowjobs Zelinksy has gotten from Congress and our previous administration.

Lil Z wanted to change the agreement and challenge JD and the President on TV. FAFO. The free $$$ just ran out.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

Heartbreaking that this dude sold out to big butter.

 

[USA!USA!]

"IF YOU AREN'T FOR UKRAINE YOU ARE ARE FOR RUSSIA!" "RUSSIA! RUSSIA! RUSSIA!"

This would be a good point if he didn’t re-open friendly dialogue with Russians, had his administration meet with them, vote on their side in the UN, trash the leader of the nation that they are at war with, allow their state media into the White House, etc etc etc

I have said multiple times in many threads I am perfectly fine with stopping aid to Ukraine for the war. I am comfortable with the US staying out of it. STAYING OUT OF IT.

I am not comfortable sucking off the Russians and giving them literally every single thing they want though, and negotiating on THEIR behalf. Why would any American be OK with that?

 

[Boxiana]

Good. Then we're agreed. This is all bullshit.

If Europe didn't want Russia to have a strong military, they shouldn't have funded it.

It’s the same as the US funding Chinas military expansion - short term economics trumps long term strategy in the West - it’s a key weakness

 

[HereticBD]

This would be a good point if he didn’t re-open friendly dialogue with Russians, had his administration meet with them, vote on their side in the UN, trash the leader of the nation that they are at war with, allow their state media into the White House, etc etc etc

I have said multiple times in many threads I am perfectly fine with stopping aid to Ukraine for the war. I am comfortable with the US staying out of it. STAYING OUT OF IT.

I am not comfortable sucking off the Russians and giving them literally every single thing they want though, and negotiating on THEIR behalf. Why would any American be OK with that?

A lot of people would think that cutting off aid to Ukraine would also be appeasing Russia. Step down from the soapbox. You too are in the "pro-Russia Putin cocksucker" camp according to many invested in this war.

 

[USA!USA!]

A lot of people would think that cutting off aid to Ukraine would also be appeasing Russia. Step down from the soapbox. You too are in the "pro-Russia Putin cocksucker" camp according to many invested in this war.

Rational people don’t think that.

What have I said that is untrue though?

 

[HereticBD]

Rational people don’t think that.

Everyone thinks they have a rational position. Not supporting Ukraine is a big old +1 to Russia to the people making the same arguments you are.

What have I said that is untrue though?

Not much other than the deal we don't know much about, other than the obvious fact that Russia will get a few things, considering they're the ones negotiating from a position of strength.

Personally, I don't mind opening up friendly dialogue with hostile nuclear superpowers. I don't really see the big deal, considering all the other shitbag nations you have working/friendly relationships with.

 

[USA!USA!]

Everyone thinks they have a rational position. Not supporting Ukraine is a big old +1 to Russia to the people making the same arguments you are.

Not much other than the deal we don't know much about, other than the obvious fact that Russia will get a few things, considering they're the ones negotiating from a position of strength.

Personally, I don't mind opening up friendly dialogue with hostile nuclear superpowers. I don't really see the big deal, considering all the other shitbag nations you have working/friendly relationships with.

I don’t care what people think. Being neutral is fine - Europe seems more than willing to take care of this problem (at least that is what they claim). Being neutral is not befriending the other side of the war though.

So you are saying you’d rather the US be allied with Russia than with Europe? At least you are being honest and taking the mask off.

I’d prefer not to. I’d prefer to work with our European allies and make them spend more versus abandoning NATO and befriending a violent dictator who just invaded a sovereign country in Europe.

I’m American and you’re not though, so perhaps we just see things differently.

 

[Bob Sagat]

It took trump 30 days to destroy decades of good will with Europe. It’s comical that Europe existed to protect against Russia from America yet they are somehow the enemy now.

Trump made these guys realise that nukes are the only protectors out there. Nobody will ever trust a denuke effort from America again. I don’t think you realise how bad this is lol

It takes decades to build a good reputation and now it got destroyed by one man in less than a month. This will have repercussions for decades.

good to see you don't disagree with any of the previous points you pivoted from.

and I'm glad europe is taking their own security necessary. seriously!
if their support of america was only conditional because we were paying through the nose to a non-nato state then this was going to happen now or 200bil later.

 

[UberHere]

Caught ya, right? Flow that money into Israel.

Huh? I agreed with you.

 

[ShinkanPo]

Clown Show USA

Discount Hitler and The Couch fucker as they say in a subredit.

 

[Cajun]

Only president I can remember who is siding with with Putin and the Kremlin over their European “allies”

He could have found a way out of that much more gracefully and politically than he did. Can you at least admit that? Bickering with another leader in front of the world looks weak as fuck. Ambushing them makes your intentions look questionable.

I love America but I honestly don’t blame the Europeans for being freaked out at what they saw. This administration is a wild card and doesn’t look like a sane one that can be trusted yet.

I watched an interview zelinsky did right after the meeting and it seems as though he's eager to get back to the table. I think as long as Trump lets this all go then the deal was still get done. This was a misstep but I believe it will be resolved. I definitely agree that the European military needs to have more funding as a whole to make us all strong partners. I don't believe in the US supplying the bulk and if something does go down we are the only participants. I think the previous posters point is somewhat correct but they have been using the funds for other things and I think this was a good wake up call. You are also correct though Trump often puts things in a manner that is abrasive. I have never enjoyed his rhetoric

 

[USA!USA!]

I watched an interview zelinsky did right after the meeting and it seems as though he's eager to get back to the table. I think as long as Trump lets this all go then the deal was still get done. This was a misstep but I believe it will be resolved. I definitely agree that the European military needs to have more funding as a whole to make us all strong partners. I don't believe in the US supplying the bulk and if something does go down we are the only participants. I think the previous posters point is somewhat correct but they have been using the funds for other things and I think this was a good wake up call. You are also correct though Trump often puts things in a manner that is abrasive. I have never enjoyed his rhetoric

I genuinely hope they do reach a deal and there is peace.

I just hope it’s something that is genuinely agreed to by Ukraine and they aren’t strong armed into something by the US in a rush to end it.

I think people should look to the future when understanding deals and ceasefires. If Ukraine doesn’t get a good deal now they can be invaded again in the future - that doesn’t mean you want to keep fighting, that means you are being a responsible steward of your country’s sovereignty, and also saving future loss of life and preventing future wars.

 

[rearnakedchoke]

Imagine being so insecure you need to plant a question about the way another man dresses, as you sit there and laugh with orange makeup on and your sidekick has the eyeliner caked on.

 

[Cajun]

I genuinely hope they do reach a deal and there is peace.

I just hope it’s something that is genuinely agreed to by Ukraine and they aren’t strong armed into something by the US in a rush to end it.

I think people should look to the future when understanding deals and ceasefires. If Ukraine doesn’t get a good deal now they can be invaded again in the future - that doesn’t mean you want to keep fighting, that means you are being a responsible steward of your country’s sovereignty, and also saving future loss of life and preventing future wars.

100% agree. I think if they deal was terrible they would likely look to Europe for support. But I hope the same.

 

[ColemanwastheGOAT]

Can any MAGA defender sincerely explain why they're giving Israel aid but when it comes to Ukraine that's the redline?

Wheres the same energy for cutting off the funding for Netanyahu?

I am 100% against Trump's support of Israel. It's the biggest thing I've been critical of him for.

It's only in your minds that every Trump supporter agrees with everything he does.

Lots of us were also extremely critical of his handling of covid.

 

[ColemanwastheGOAT]

If Ukraine doesn’t get a good deal now they can be invaded again in the future

It doesn't matter what kind of deal Ukraine gets, they can get invaded again. A deal with Russia is hardly a guarantee of anything.

Ukraine has no hand here.

They need to make nice with Russia instead oact8ning like the little guy on the playground with a tough big brother. Big brother isn't interested in fighting all his battle for him anymore.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

I am 100% against Trump's support of Israel. It's the biggest thing I've been critical of him for.

It's only in your minds that every Trump supporter agrees with everything he does.

Lots of us were also extremely critical of his handling of covid.

A lot of maga people will support Trump with anything. A lot of anti maga people will disagree with him on anything. It's good that you're willing to call him out when you disagree with him though.

 

[MrShady]

I am 100% against Trump's support of Israel. It's the biggest thing I've been critical of him for.

It's only in your minds that every Trump supporter agrees with everything he does.

Lots of us were also extremely critical of his handling of covid.

Heres the issue. You and a few Trump supporters may be against these cases and recognize the contradiction in policy/agenda but the VAST majority of trump supporters are DEVOUT worshippers meaning even if you are critical and speak out against the hypocrisy, you will be drowned out by the sea of MAGA.

Do you dispute this notion? Will a member of his administration or cabinet speak out against funding Israel?

Will anyone challenge Trump?

 

[ColemanwastheGOAT]

A lot of maga people will support Trump with anything.

Nah. You guys just pretend that's the case so you can engage dishonestly. All the Trump supporters on here are regularly critical of him on a variety of issues.

It's actually the left here who refuses to call out their side on bullshit as seen during Biden's disastrous run.