Crime Trump-Ukraine Megathread v4

[PainIsLIfe]

I do? Well I’d rather sound poor than dumb

I thought it was a given that you sound dumb - hence my IQ is higher than yours.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

@PainIsLIfe voice: See he's praising Sessions for rooting out corruption in the GOP. What a hero!

Have I ever claimed Trump is concerned with corruption? Stick to arguements that Ive actually made.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

Even if it wasn't blatantly illegal. POTUS shouldn't be begging(with zero evidence) foreign countries to investigate his political rivals. It's simply improper, and his motives are obvious.

I like that quote.

Should we expect charges against the myriad of democrats involved in the dossier and those (Schiff) that asked Ukraine for the pee tape?

 

[VivaRevolution]

My girlfriend is very anti-Trump, like most girls her age (22).

She came to me all fired up about how “You can’t support Trump anymore after all this!!!” I let her ramble for about 10 minutes, then asked what specifically she had that Trump did that was illegal.

She wanted to end the conversation once I started to ask about specific examples.

Here’s the problem liberals: many of you are rejoicing now because “We caught him!” The problem for moderates is you’ve said this before, and were dead wrong.

I’m waiting for more facts to come out. It appears grim for Trump at the moment, but the problem is our news is so corrupt and hateful it’s almost impossible to tell the truth from lies.

If I went off the first news only several innocent police officers would have been hanged for what ended up being self defense against black men.

Let’s quit jumping the gun and let the story play out.

Let me ask you this. Do you believe Trump has plausible deniability on the decision to freeze aid to the Ukraine?

I don't. I think that this is documented, and the transcript from the call show him very clearly engaging in either extortion or quid pro quo, however you want to frame it.

There was never anything like that for the Mueller investigation. They couldn't tie anything Russian to Trump directly. They had him on obstruction of no crime.

This is different. I don't know if it will go anywhere because it's about votes not guilt, but that doesn't really change whether he is guilty of either extortion or quid pro quo.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

Comparing some random nobody on a message board suggesting something to that of the President doing it as a defense/point speaks volumes about the level of false equivocation and straw-grasping you'll resort to, and since it never sinks in ...

---->It is against the law for the President to do it.<-------

Seriously, what would it take? Is there anything that his supporters/defenders wont simply dismiss as fake news/liberal lies/whataboutism? I am genuinely curious as to what would be your red line of him going too far...

Show me where he asked China to investigate and I'll gladly eat crow, but the fact is that he didn't ask China to investigate and posters of a certain polital persuasion tefuse to admit that.

 

[zebby23]

I like that quote.

Should we expect charges against the myriad of democrats involved in the dossier and those (Schiff) that asked Ukraine for the pee tape?

Are all those democrats presidents?

but but look over there

 

[PainIsLIfe]

Haha. I didn't quote mine. Obviously lefties have some sort of reading comprehension deficiency - explains a lot.

Quoting your IQ on a karate forum=Gotten too.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

Are all those democrats presidents?

but but look over there

On Friday’s edition of Morning Joe, FEC chair Ellen Weintraub declined to talk about the specifics of Trump’s case but noted that “the law is pretty clear. ... It is absolutely illegal for anyone to solicit, accept, or receive anything of value from a foreign national in connection with any election in the United States.”

 

[Jack V Savage]

Have I ever claimed Trump is concerned with corruption? Stick to arguements that Ive actually made.

You've claimed that only a syntactical reading is appropriate. That's the basis for your ludicrous claims that Trump wasn't asking China for help, isn't it? So being consistent, you'd fail to catch the sarcasm in Trump's "praise" for Sessions.

 

[zebby23]

On Friday’s edition of Morning Joe, FEC chair Ellen Weintraub declined to talk about the specifics of Trump’s case but noted that “the law is pretty clear. ... It is absolutely illegal for anyone to solicit, accept, or receive anything of value from a foreign national in connection with any election in the United States.”

wow, you are saying we should prosecute Trump? About time you jumped on board. It takes people with IQs in the 99-106 range a little longer to come around... I get it

 

[zebby23]

Haha. I didn't quote mine. Obviously lefties have some sort of reading comprehension deficiency - explains a lot.

quoting your sons is even more pathetic.

I may not be smarter than you but but but my son sure is lol

TDS has gotchu shook

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

Demanding/ requesting help from

China

Russia

Ukraine

Australia

MAGA

 

[ObamaPhoneLady]

Any chance you want to approach the question with a simple answer?

I already did.

 

[ObamaPhoneLady]

If it happened under Obama I'd probably be annoyed sure, but I wuldn't be bleating on about impeachment.

Also the MSM would be ignoring it and the Dems would be laughing it off or possibly calling anyone with a problem with it racist, so there you are.

That's politics.

Here's your simple answer @overpressure.

 

[Shoemaker]

Demanding/ requesting help from

China

This is the one that actually makes me scratch my head. We're suppose to trust that communist regime? The currency manipulator? That climate-change fabricating sweatshop shithole? The place that's committed more human rights violations than there are drops of water in the ocean?

We're gonna trust that China to conduct a fair and impartial investigation? There's not a town called "China" somewhere in Texas?

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

This is the one that actually makes me scratch my head. We're suppose to trust that communist regime? The currency manipulator? That climate-change fabricating sweatshop shithole? The place that's committed more human rights violations than there are drops of water in the ocean?

We're gonna trust that China to conduct a fair and impartial investigation? There's not a town called "China" somewhere in Texas?

Another that confuses me is asking (demanding, strong-arming) Ukraine.

They're not exactly known for integrity.

 

[FireKidWS]

Let me ask you this. Do you believe Trump has plausible deniability on the decision to freeze aid to the Ukraine?

I don't. I think that this is documented, and the transcript from the call show him very clearly engaging in either extortion or quid pro quo, however you want to frame it.

There was never anything like that for the Mueller investigation. They couldn't tie anything Russian to Trump directly. They had him on obstruction of no crime.

This is different. I don't know if it will go anywhere because it's about votes not guilt, but that doesn't really change whether he is guilty of either extortion or quid pro quo.

From what I have read, i don’t think he has plausible deniability on withholding aid from Ukraine. It seems, again from what I’ve read, he was directly behind that.

Now- the question of motive. If you have ever witnessed a trial, motive is an extremely tricky thing to Prove. You can suggest this motive, and I could suggest this motive- and a reasonable person might see Both as plausible- even if they are extremely different.

That’s why it’s very hard for one side or the other to prove motive.

No to mention, people are hardly ever single motivated. I might go out to a bar with some friends. I might deciede to go for several reasons:

1) I want to drink
2) im craving bar food
3). I want to talk to friends
4). I want to get out of the house
5). I want an excuse to get some breathing room from my girlfriend

Which is the #1 motive? I usually even can’t tell, because it’s hard to put %s on feelings or desires.

 

[Striderxdj]

Show me where he asked China to investigate and I'll gladly eat crow, but the fact is that he didn't ask China to investigate and posters of a certain polital persuasion tefuse to admit that.

So the bar you have set is that he would specifically have to say "China/Ukraine/etc. Will you please look into Biden for me?" I'm sure it wouldnt even be enough if he didnt include the for me part as then it would argued as a favor to the U.S, and not him personally.

It's amazing that the only way of detecting any subtext or intent is if it involves a democrat.

"We have a golfing picture of biden and know his son traveled places with him, and the company his son worked for paid him money... Therefore clearly everything is shady, and he should be investigated for corruption. Our own countries law enforcement apparatus is corrupt too, even the ones appointed by Trump himself (also, somehow not his fault) so it makes more sense to have communist countries do it, or strongarm new leaders into doing it instead."

 

[VivaRevolution]

From what I have read, i don’t think he has plausible deniability on withholding aid from Ukraine. It seems, again from what I’ve read, he was directly behind that.

Now- the question of motive. If you have ever witnessed a trial, motive is an extremely tricky thing to Prove. You can suggest this motive, and I could suggest this motive- and a reasonable person might see Both as plausible- even if they are extremely different.

That’s why it’s very hard for one side or the other to prove motive.

Why do you need motive to show Trump abusing his office?

Look, a cop doesn't need an excuse to put the screws to a suspect. We are all basically OK with that as long as kept in bounds. When a cop uses his office, to put the screws to his ex-GF, we used to all agree that is illegal, and we don't tolerate it.

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

So the bar you have set is that he would specifically have to say "China/Ukraine/etc. Will you please look into Biden for me?"