Law Trump Says Undocumented Immigrants Shouldn’t Get Trials Before Deportation

panamaican said:
Kind of minimizing some steps there.

Reasonably suspecting you of committing a crime has rules to it. Has to be articulable facts that would lead a reasonable person to believe that a crime is being committed.

So, no, ICE can't just stop random people and demand identification because some person looks illegal. They need some really articulable facts to justify it. "He looks Hispanic and wasn't speaking English," doesn't cut it.
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Or, worse yet -and as he seems to be intimating- "they didn't have their papers on them"
 
Limbo Pete said:
Reasonable suspicion of a crime requires probable cause. Arrests get ruled invalid all the time because they are found to have been conducted without probable cause.
And once you are arrested, you are required to have due process
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Negatory, good buddy. Reasonable suspicion <> probably cause.

The police only need reasonable suspicion to stop you. They need probable cause to arrest you.

Once again, I believe that we owe these illegal aliens the same due process they exercised when crossing our border.
 
DanSavage said:
Negatory, good buddy. Reasonable suspicion <> probably cause.

The police only need reasonable suspicion to stop you. They need probable cause to arrest you.

Once again, I believe that we owe these illegal aliens the same due process they exercised when crossing our border.
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No, you're missing the point, and also not making sense, especially that last part; you're saying we don't need to follow the law because people broke the law coming here, which is absolutely asinine and flagrantly unconstitutional. You can't _stop_ a person walking down the street for no reason and then _demand_ ID and then send them to prison for non compliance. You tell me- who "looks" illegal?
 
DanSavage said:
Negatory, good buddy. Reasonable suspicion <> probably cause.

The police only need reasonable suspicion to stop you. They need probable cause to arrest you.

Once again, I believe that we owe these illegal aliens the same due process they exercised when crossing our border.
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They need reasonable articulatable suspension that a crime has or is about to occur. The distinction is important because it determines the legality of the stop
 
ShadowRun said:
I knew you were fragile minded , but I didn’t think it was on this level . What can we do about this crisis bro ? How can we stop project 2025

I know you’re awareness is a little dull .. but
QUOTE="ShadowRun, post: 175053591, member: 237219"]
Yea I think Trump should bring him back, go throught he legal steps then deport him. It will be a dog and pony show per say but it's more of the right thing
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[/QUOTE]

I don't give a shit if you once said "Trump should bring him back". Because every other post you've made about this issue just completely dismisses the Trump administration's blatant violations of due process, one of the bedrock principles of our legal system. You can't have it both ways.

I love the polls from MARCH 11th, as if they have any relevance now. Here let me check if those numbers still hold up....

Trump approval on immigration drops to 45 percent: Survey

President Trump’s approval rating on immigration has dropped by 5 percentage points since the beginning of the month, according to a new poll from The Economist/YouGov.

In the poll, 45 percent said that when it comes to the way Trump is handling immigration, they “strongly” or “somewhat” back it. A poll from earlier this month found 50 percent of respondents backed the approach.
New polling shows a collapse in Trump’s approval numbers

Several major polling outlets are beginning to release survey research data to examine President Trump’s first 100 days in office. The numbers are to put it as nicely as possible, not good for the Trump team. To put it more bluntly: The bottom has fallen out of Trump’s job approval ratings.

You should just cut your losses now and admit your positions on this issue are idiotic. But I'm sure you don't have the integrity to do that.
 
Deorum said:
😵



What happened here, @Possum Jenkins?
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The same that happened with all other groups, really.

Republicans made gains with every single group so Latino men were no different. For the last couple of decades, Latinos have been the most conservative of the three major minority groups (in the 90s, Asians were the most conservative), and men are more conservative than women in every single ethnic group as well.

So in an election where the Republican candidate had some of the best performances ever with all minorities, it's no surprise that Latino males went slightly above 50% GOP.

Not sure it's a permanent thing, though. George W. Bush pulled VERY similar numbers among Latinos in 2004 and then Obama came in and got almost 70% of them.
 
Deorum said:
😵



What happened here, @Possum Jenkins?
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Latinos and Catholics in general are very similar to Eastern Orthodox, a culture of serfs who only worry about 2 things.

Safety and Economy.

Trump sold himself as a strongman who was good for the economy and that would go against "criminal aliens" which most Latinos assumed to be gang-members, not hardworking individuals.

Now that Trump showed his true colors by claiming "criminal aliens" = all immigrants including citizens born out immigrants and that he just made the economy implode, its not surprising that Trump who went from -5 against all Latinos in 2024 he is now at -45 approval rate among all Hispanics.

Its normal, as i have told many people, Latin Americans in general are decent individuals, but as a group, they got to be the most retarded voting bloc around the world.
 
And this type of sh*t is part of the culmination of of this systemic xenophobia:


- 2 year-old girl born in the US detained by Ice with her Honduran Mother.
- ICE denies phone call with Father
- ICE claims the Mother wanted to take the girl to Honduras with her, but deported her before the Judge could verify via phone, and before the scheduled hearing. Instead the produced a hand-written letter allegedly written by the Mother.
- The Judge, a Trump appointee, says this is bullsh*t.
 
Limbo Pete said:
Or, worse yet -and as he seems to be intimating- "they didn't have their papers on them"
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The thing is that "didn't have their papers on them" comes after the stop. They need a justification to make the stop in the first place before they can even ask the question about papers.
 
panamaican said:
The thing is that "didn't have their papers on them" comes after the stop. They need a justification to make the stop in the first place before they can even ask the question about papers.
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No way man, didn't you get the memo? "Suspicion of being illegal" oughtta do it. Don't ask me where the suspicion comes from, it's certainly not the ol eyeball race test.
 
Sinister said:
And this type of sh*t is part of the culmination of of this systemic xenophobia:


- 2 year-old girl born in the US detained by Ice with her Honduran Mother.
- ICE denies phone call with Father
- ICE claims the Mother wanted to take the girl to Honduras with her, but deported her before the Judge could verify via phone, and before the scheduled hearing. Instead the produced a hand-written letter allegedly written by the Mother.
- The Judge, a Trump appointee, says this is bullsh*t.
Click to expand...
- Come to post that. Men, not even Lord Zedd would do that!
 
panamaican said:
The thing is that "didn't have their papers on them" comes after the stop. They need a justification to make the stop in the first place before they can even ask the question about papers.
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I don't know the law, but I have been pulled over a few times. LEOs can invent probable cause if they want to. It's like when they hold you and bring out the dog to sniff around. They'll say the dog reacted to something even if he licks his balls. PC can be fabricated so easily.
 
IDGETKTFO said:
Well he's right you know.
tenor.gif


Illegals have no rights. They are not US citizens. They were not given due process when they illegally came into this country, and they should not be given due process when they are booted out of this country.
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Except that is not what the constitution says. Being a US Citizen is not a fundamental pre-requisite to receiving due process. You may not like that and want to see it changed, but the law is the law.
 
Brampton_Boy said:
Except that is not what the constitution says. Being a US Citizen is not a fundamental pre-requisite to receiving due process. You may not like that and want to see it changed, but the law is the law.
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It wont be long before all these "originalists" and "Federalists" start openly saying who the Constitution was intended to favor. They've had to deny it since the Emancipation movement, Suffrage movement, Civil Rights movement, etc. Itll suck, but at least at that point they'll be being honest.

They admit it within their own circles. But just not boldly out in the open.
 
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