Law Trump Says Undocumented Immigrants Shouldn’t Get Trials Before Deportation

[Satsui Ryu]

I hear what you're saying. It would be ideal if everyone was put in front of a judge, I just don't know how practical it is. The process needs to be overhauled dramatically. The problem is that a lot of these illegals and their lawyers can stretch out what otherwise should be a very simple case that should take a day at the most to adjudicate

This whole thing smacks of stuff like the war on drugs and the war on terror. Both were overtly heavy handed endeavors that are universally considered abject failures with big reasons being massive human rights violations and what was only supposed to affect "them" turned out to start impacting not them. Just like these past matters this whole thing could potentially backfire and we end up in a worse position than if we simply did nothing. Especially if we see a lot of litigation due to these "oopsies." Considering this whole thing is being driven by bloodthirsty morons and compulsive liars so all this as well leads me to believe this will be another failure like the other things mentioned.

 

[Lycandroid]

How would you know any of this without doing some level of investigation outside of maybe the top one and even then there are likely many instances of legal immigrants working with illegal immigrants. For your last one, my wife is brown with an accent but is a citizen. You are essentially saying if she goes out and forgets her purse it would be fine to have a bunch of masked dudes snatch her up and send her to El Salvador?

Yes it would require investigation, that is what ICE is for.

Does the government not have a record of every legal citizen ? Should be super easy, barely an inconvenience, to figure that out.

The government should have definitive proof you aren't a citizen, what im saying is that should be relatively easy to prove one way or the other from either side. I don't think long trials costing tax payers millions is warranted

 

[Area809]

Spending money on trials for people who aren't citizens? No.

What would you suggest we cut to pay for all these trials? How should we manage the justice system, which would be increasingly clogged?

You can start by cutting Trump’s trips to Mar-a-Lago and sporting events.

 

[Satsui Ryu]

Yes it would require investigation, that is what ICE is for.

Does the government not have a record of every legal citizen ? Should be super easy, barely an inconvenience, to figure that out.

The government should have definitive proof you aren't a citizen, what im saying is that should be relatively easy to prove one way or the other from either side. I don't think long trials costing tax payers millions is warranted

Hate to break it to you, but not having ID is not an investigation. That first line screams bullshit. Considering it's been less than a quarter and we are having all kinds of fuckups already clearly the proper investigations are not being conducted. What we are seeing happening right now proves the claims you are making are wrong.

 

[oldshadow]

Odd that you would say they dont need a trial, all that should be needed is to establish that they're here undocumented. How would you "establish" that and who would be deciding it? Accusatory neighbors? Malicious Cops? I had a student born in Chicago who was visiting Family in Mexico, upon return he showed his birth certificate and CBP accused him of forging it. He was 14. How do you resolve that accusation if not in front of a judge?

I don't see any good coming from this mentality. Due process is largely what makes us a "free" Country, and I use that term generously considering how many people we have in prison and the statistical likelihood that a good chunk of them are innocent.

How do you establish that without due process? The Admin has already admitted to one mistake in it's deportations carried out without due process, what's to stop them from doing that again and again without due process?

If they are here already they can go before and magistrate appointed by the state department to show proof if they have it.

A passport or passport card is required to enter Mexico and come from Mexico for starters

If they are here they should be able to show a visa of some type.

 

[panamaican]

More foolishness from Trump. We've been having trials on this subject for literally centuries. Shit, we tried this issue in the courts before we even started enforcing legal borders.

 

[Strychnine]

No. Every person should get due process. If you want the process to go faster, then hire more judges and start arresting/penalizing the people that keep hiring non-documented workers.

They want the border wall, but they'll NEVER turn off that "Help Wanted" sign that glows neon 24-7.

 

[Lycandroid]

Hate to break it to you, but not having ID is not an investigation. That first line screams bullshit. Considering it's been less than a quarter and we are having all kinds of fuckups already clearly the proper investigations are being conducted. What we are seeing happening right now proves the claims you are making are wrong.

are we really though ? There have been several high profile cases where verified criminals are deported and the left shits their pants about it.

The US is just holding its self to the same standard of nearly every country on the face of the earth.

You get deported much faster trying the same crap in Japan

 

[Islam Imamate]

If they are here already they can go before and magistrate appointed by the state department to show proof if they have it.

A passport or passport card is required to enter Mexico and come from Mexico for starters

If they are here they should be able to show a visa of some type.

Right but that's a form of due process though isn't it? I doubt anyone is saying that illegal aliens are entitled to a full jury trial before deportation but Trump has already deported hundreds of people with no judicial oversight and is trying to assert his right to continue to do so despite being held in contempt of court for the first round of extrajudicial deportations.

You don't see how that's potentially a grave power grab by the executive here?

 

[helltoupee]

The majority of Americans want them all deported.

It's going to hurt the Democrats in future elections trying to stop Trump from deporting the illegals.

Except if they work in Trump's hotels or golf courses of course.

And are you positive "the majority of Americans" all want them deported without any semblance of a trial, or due process? Just round up whomever law enforcement thinks should be deported and send them to CECOT?

Here's why Trump supporters are dumb. The "majority of Americans" don't want what Trump is doing. He's just trying to distract you with his bull in a China shop rush to give you something other than what is either absolute idiocy with his flip-flopping all over the place tariffs, or his clear market manipulation by flip-flopping on tariffs. Which is it?

And btw, you got a source for your claim? You want to make a bet who wins the next "future election" based on the disaster of a Presidency Trump 2.0 has been?

 

[Limbo Pete]

Right but that's a form of due process though isn't it? I doubt anyone is saying that illegal aliens are entitled to a full jury trial before deportation but Trump has already deported hundreds of people with no judicial oversight and is trying to assert his right to continue to do so despite being held in contempt of court for the first round of extrajudicial deportations.

You don't see how that's potentially a grave power grab by the executive here?

Oh he sees the power grab. They all do. It's what they want.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Except if they work in Trump's hotels or golf courses of course.

And are you positive "the majority of Americans" all want them deported without any semblance of a trial, or due process? Just round up whomever law enforcement thinks should be deported and send them to CECOT?

Here's why Trump supporters are dumb. The "majority of Americans" don't want what Trump is doing. He's just trying to distract you with his bull in a China shop rush to give you something other than what is either absolute idiocy with his flip-flopping all over the place tariffs, or his clear market manipulation by flip-flopping on tariffs. Which is it?

And btw, you got a source for your claim? You want to make a bet who wins the next "future election" based on the disaster of a Presidency Trump 2.0 has been?

In fairness to his claim immigration is the one issue where Trump still has positive approval ratings, +4% last I checked. Now that's not to say that all his actions on that front are approved, its well known that the public will feel one way about a general issue and another about the specifics. "Obamacare" was famously unpopular when it was polled under that name but if you polled folks on the individual provisions without telling them it was part of Obamacare all of them polled noticeably higher than "Obamacare" itself.

 

[Satsui Ryu]

are we really though ? There have been several high profile cases where verified criminals are deported and the left shits their pants about it.

The US is just holding its self to the same standard of nearly every country on the face of the earth.

You get deported much faster trying the same crap in Japan

Got evidence of the first paragraph? And Japan is a shitshow of a society right now. Wouldn't look to them for anything. The fact is the stuff we are willing to give up for this will cause much worse issues. I mentioned the war on drugs and war on terror which seemed very similar to all this. We are looking at another instance where what may have sounded great on paper is just not in practice.

 

[cooks1]

Trump probably thinks all trials are all as long, thorough, and time consuming as his trial was, but they're not. Immigration trials are much, much quicker than your normal trials from what I understand. Trump is basically like, "the constitution is not convenient to me, so, I'll just ignore that"

Agreed. Unless someone is 'in process' (seeking asylum, already begun formal legal immigration process etc) they are not legally entitled to a trial. Just a hearing. Because deportation proceedings are civil, not criminal. All the government needs to show in a hearing is show the person is not a US citizen and removable under law.

 

[helltoupee]

In fairness to his claim immigration is the one issue where Trump still has positive approval ratings, +4% last I checked. Now that's not to say that all his actions on that front are approved, its well known that the public will feel one way about a general issue and another about the specifics. "Obamacare" was famously unpopular when it was polled under that name but if you polled folks on the individual provisions without telling them it was part of Obamacare all of them polled noticeably higher than "Obamacare" itself.

His claim implied that if people are against deportations without due process, this was going to hurt the Democrat's chances to win "future elections", completely ignoring all of the other things that Trump 2.0 has been, and my suggestion that any claims of this nature will be absolutely overshadowed by said idiocy.

My bet stands to anyone and everyone who wants to take me up on it. If you think that opposing illegal deportations is going to sink any chance of the Democrats winning future elections, by all means, hit me up in the bet thread. The outcome will be crystal clear. If Trump, or the Republicans, win the next, "future election", you win and can ban me for life for all I care. If the Dems win, I get to choose your AV and screen name for 6 months. Deal?

 

[nostradumbass]

When the argument starts with words that you can paraphrase to "I don't believe in trials" then the rest is meaningless.

Lol, yeah, hardly a surprise that you have no response because you didn't know how immigration works.

Why do they need a trial/due process ? Shouldn't it take a few minutes to run somebodies name and see if they are in the system ?
Why would they need a trial to figure that out ?

Of course they have record of who's here legally, the whole point of pretending you need 20 million "trials" to find out if someone's here illegally is that it isn't possible, which means anybody in the world who comes here just gets to stay.

Obviously "due process" doesn't mean you need a trial to take illegal residency away from noncitizens who never had a right to it in the first place. Due process is for taking away your natural rights of life, liberty and property, ie a criminal trial before executing you or sentencing you to federal prison, not taking away the imaginary "right" of foreign nationals to squat here, which of course they specifically don't have a right to.

The constitution gives congress the power to set immigration standards, and the executive to carry them out, and the immigration agencies generally do give hearings t order deportation, but it's not required, and immigration officials can also order expedited removal with no hearing.

If you are a citizen and get deported, then you can sue the government and that could have a trial, but even that probably wouldn't and would be settled without trial.

 

[DoctorTaco]

Are the arresting random brown people for being brown

Yes. They admitted to arresting the wrong kid and shipped him off to CECOT anyways.

immigrant that should be enough ? There are plenty of indicators of someone being an illegal migrant that have nothing to do with skin color.

I was going to ask you to list them.

working on jobsite with 20 other illegals

living with known illegals

constantly using fake names

avoiding interactions with authorities, community, neighbors for no reason

not having a drivers license or any form of Id

As a red blooded American who has worked day labor, construction, and line cooking I have checked all of these boxes at one time or another in my life.

Innocent until PROVEN guilty. None of those things prove someone is illegal.

 

[CyberRubberDuck]

Thanks for being direct in admitting you don't give a shit about the Constitution. Now we all know you're opinions are completely worthless.

Certain parts of the constitution have been taken advantage of and abused. So no, you don't get to badge me as not giving a shit about the entire constitution purely because I'm addressing one aspect of it that has been abused to high heaven, and pussies like you are too scared to put your hand up and say you want something done about such abuse.

My initial comment was actually stated with a certain amount of tongue in cheek, but fuck it. Go Trump.

 

[panamaican]

Yes. They admitted to arresting the wrong kid and shipped him off to CECOT anyways.

I was going to ask you to list them.

As a red blooded American who has worked day labor, construction, and line cooking I have checked all of these boxes at one time or another in my life.

Innocent until PROVEN guilty. None of those things prove someone is illegal.

The crazy thing is that his list is also pretty common for anyone who wants to live off the grid and minimize government interaction.

 

[nostradumbass]

Right but that's a form of due process though isn't it? I doubt anyone is saying that illegal aliens are entitled to a full jury trial before deportation but Trump has already deported hundreds of people with no judicial oversight and is trying to assert his right to continue to do so despite being held in contempt of court for the first round of extrajudicial deportations.

You don't see how that's potentially a grave power grab by the executive here?

Except they are saying that, that's literally the title of the thread we're in and I haven't seen a single left winger disagreeing or saying they shouldn't.

The judicial does not get to decide foreign policy or immigration policy. If a citizen is deported, then they would obviously sue the government for the wrongful deportation because that is illegal. I don't know if you think it's just incredible luck that they haven't deported any citizens, but if they were just snatching people up and deporting them for "looking illegal" or "being too brown" as others have suggested, then it's pretty miraculous that they just keep getting lucky that the random "black and brown people" they keep deporting just happen to be illegals, and not a single citizen, considering there are over 100 million black and Hispanic citizens.

The guy you cited earlier has had multiple immigration hearings at which he was found to be a gang member and was denied asylum. He then requested a non deportation order on the grounds that he IS in a gang, and that his being in MS-13 puts him at risk of being harmed by Barrio 18, their "rival gang", and he temporarily avoided deportation to El Salvador then BECAUSE he was in a gang, which is just great. His grounds for avoiding deportation to El Salvador no longer applies because El Salvador is now the safest country in the western hemisphere and Bukele has eradicated the gangs, and the homicide rate in Baltimore where he was living is 1900% greater than the homicide rate of the place he's claiming was "too dangerous".

Saying he can't be deported back to El Salvador because it's too dangerous with a homicide rate of 1.9/100,000, and instead needs to be taken back to Baltimore with a homicide rate of 36/100,000 is bit rich.