Law Trump Says Undocumented Immigrants Shouldn’t Get Trials Before Deportation

If Trump was just talking about deporting undocumented immigrants to their country of origin than I can see his point.

Unfortunately for Trump he started off by deporting a bunch of Venezuelans to rot in a jail in El Salvador. That's sort of like an American in Japan who overstayed their visa getting "deported" to north Korean labor camp.
 
If Trump was just talking about deporting undocumented immigrants to their country of origin than I can see his point.

Unfortunately for Trump he started off by deporting a bunch of Venezuelans to rot in a jail in El Salvador. That's sort of like an American in Japan who overstayed their visa getting "deported" to north Korean labor camp.

He wants to also send American prisoners to countries like El Salvador too.
 
"Juan Carlos Lopez-Gomez maintains he said he was born in Georgia and handed over Real ID and Social Security card"
You sure snipped out a lot of that story. The guy didn't speak English or Spanish, moved back to Mexico when he was 2 and just came back a few years ago and filled out the wrong form saying he was visiting, and the trooper asked if they were here illegally and he said yes, so he was detained when he said he was here illegally and had an expired I-94, and was then let out the next day when he showed that he filled out the I-94 by mistake and showed his documents.


What is that process without a trial? You say they are undocumented, but without a trial where evidence can be presented, how can you know? Why couldn't it be you? Why couldn't you or people you know be imprisoned or deported if there's no trial?

The purpose of a trial is to be transparent, open and free of political influence. It's for evidence to be provided and fairly assessed. If someone is documented, the trial will reveal that quickly. If not, it won't, and goodbye.
Lol, no it's not, trials are full of political influence, and judges are either appointed or are politicians themselves. You don't need a trial to show that you're a citizen or legal immigrant, it's pretty cut and dry, either you have documents or you don't. They have records of people who come in legally and where they came from, which is how the entire immigration system works.

What exactly do you think should happen here? Having over 20 million trials for each illegal isn't a possibility, and the play from open borders supporters isn't exactly well hidden here. The entire reason they're telling you there's some imaginary part of the constitution that unlimited illegals can flood in and you can never get rid of them is because the goal is to clog the system so anybody in the world can just show up and it would take more than their lifetime to get rid of them.

The constitution gives congress the right set uniform immigration standards, which they have, and the executive branch executes them. The "due process" is for the government to execute or sentence you to federal prison, aka deny you life or liberty. Foreign nationals do not have some inherent right to live here, and those here illegally can be sent back to their own country for any reason. They are starting with people who committed addional crimes here, but they don't have to, and most of them have had immigration hearings, though that's not required either for expedited removal. The constitution gives congress the right to set immigration standards, and they have granted immigration officials the ability to remove noncitizens before an official hearing.


 
Trump is right on this one. There's no way to process tens of millions of illegals, which was the entire point of allowing the flood to happen. People that engineered it to import future voters knew it and are only looking to create another politically subservient underclass.
 
For those of you who still support this man while he openly ignores the Constitution...Why?

Because they don't care about democracy, or the constitution. There are no reasons, or they are invented ad hoc to support whatever he does.

Followers support Trump unconditionally, because they think him getting away with everything, including illegality, is a victory against liberals. When one points out "this is illegal" or "this is immoral" they laugh. Because it's a sport for them.

"Cry harder! We won!" is always going to be the answer.

It's not politics, or civic debate, it's the mob mentality that results from populist propaganda.
 
Because they don't care about democracy, or the constitution. There are no reasons, or they are invented ad hoc to support whatever he does.

Followers support Trump unconditionally, because they think him getting away with everything, including illegality, is a victory against liberals. When one points out "this is illegal" or "this is immoral" they laugh. Because it's a sport for them.

"Cry harder! We won!" is always going to be the answer.

It's not politics, or civic debate, it's the mob mentality that results from populist propaganda.
Both sides do this. It's one giant shit slinging contest and the pendulum is going to keep swinging back and forth while we delve into a darker place every year, every election.

This team politics two party system shit has got to go.

George Washington warned of this exact thing in his 1796 Presidential Address.

“The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, ... is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism.”

“It serves always to distract the public councils and enfeeble the public administration. It agitates the community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms, kindles the animosity of one part against another...”

Washington feared that political parties would:


  • Divide the nation
  • Undermine national unity
  • Distract from the common good
  • Encourage power struggles and revenge politics
  • Pave the way toward despotism (tyranny)
 
Both sides do this. It's one giant shit slinging contest and the pendulum is going to keep swinging back and forth while we delve into a darker place every year, every election.

This team politics two party system shit has got to go.

George Washington warned of this exact thing in his 1796 Presidential Address.

“The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, ... is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism.”

“It serves always to distract the public councils and enfeeble the public administration. It agitates the community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms, kindles the animosity of one part against another...”

Washington feared that political parties would:


  • Divide the nation
  • Undermine national unity
  • Distract from the common good
  • Encourage power struggles and revenge politics
  • Pave the way toward despotism (tyranny)

I agree that this is a general feature of the political system. But I would argue it is not a crisis only of the American two party system, but of democratic politics more generally and their tendency to degenerate into forms of oligarchy and plutocracy, if not tyranny. The same problems occur in countries where we have a plurality of parties, like in Latin American countries. There is a deeper problem at work here.

The idea of a functional democracy is that power derives from the people, and that power represents the people. The civil population have the power of decision, not only to elect officials, but to operate as a feedback mechanism on the basis of performance. But in practice the political class does not function as an organ that collects feedback to correct performance for administrative capability but uses feedback to become trained in mastery of public opinion.

That is, politicians become trained in efficiency at propaganda. The electorate becomes in the words of Land "an object of indoctrination", and as a result populism becomes the default state of politics. Plato already noted this, that democracy degenerates into the rule of sophistry, and so that it eventually relapses to tyranny, since power knows how to get the electorate to applaud its concentration of power, even by illegal means.

"Yes! President Trump is finally taking the power back from the disastrous corruption of the liberals!"

This quote by Land from the article "The Problem with Democracy" is pretty on point:

"The assertion of popular voice has led, by retrospective inevitability, to a specialized, super-competent political devotion to ventriloquism. The disaster, therefore, is two-fold. On the one hand, government competence in its primary responsibility — efficient governance — is systematically eroded, to be replaced by a facility at propaganda (in a process akin to the accumulation of junk DNA). As government is swallowed by messaging, residual administrative competences are maintained by a bureaucratic machine or ‘permanent government’, largely insulated from the increasingly senseless signals of democratic opinion, but still assimilated to the opinion-formation establishment by direct (extra-democratic) processes of cultivation. Lacking feedback from anything but its own experiments in mind-control, quality of government collapses.

Secondly, and even more calamitously from certain perspectives, culture is devastated by the politicization of opinion. Under a political dispensation in which opinion has no formal power, it is broadly free to develop in accordance with its own experiences, concerns, and curiosities. In a significant minority of cases, cultural achievements of enduring value result. Only in cases of extreme, provocative dissent will the government have any interest in what the people think. Once politicized, however, correct public opinion is a matter of central — indeed all-consuming — government attention. Ideologically installed as the foundation of political legitimacy, it becomes the supreme object of political manipulation. Any thought is now dissent if it is not positively aligned with society’s leading political direction. To think outside the Cathedral is to attack the government. Culture is destroyed."

With that said, what we are witnessing with the current administration is this last aspect of the equation: a complete an utter degeneration of culture, the repudiation and destruction of academic technocratic knowledge, censorship, policing, and forced alignment to the official state ideology to an extreme extent.
 
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Trump Says Undocumented Immigrants Shouldn’t Get Trials Before Deportation

“I hope we get cooperation from the courts, because we have thousands of people that are ready to go out and you can’t have a trial for all of these people,” Mr. Trump said. “It wasn’t meant. The system wasn’t meant. And we don’t think there’s anything that says that.”

“We’re getting them out, and a judge can’t say, ‘No, you have to have a trial,’” Mr. Trump said. “The trial is going to take two years. We’re going to have a very dangerous country if we’re not allowed to do what we’re entitled to do.”



In case it wasn't clear how much disdain this man has for the Constitution he already made it very clear years ago....


Trump rebuked for call to suspend Constitution over election

“A Massive Fraud of this type and magnitude allows for the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution,” he wrote. “Our great ‘Founders’ did not want, and would not condone, False & Fraudulent Elections!”

For those of you who still support this man while he openly ignores the Constitution...Why?
Yay, another trump thread.

He's doing what needs to be done. Whether whiney little bitches can take it or not, he's doing what others have been too scared to do.
 
Lol, no it's not, trials are full of political influence, and judges are either appointed or are politicians themselves. You don't need a trial to show that you're a citizen or legal immigrant, it's pretty cut and dry, either you have documents or you don't. They have records of people who come in legally and where they came from, which is how the entire immigration system works.

What exactly do you think should happen here? Having over 20 million trials for each illegal isn't a possibility, and the play from open borders supporters isn't exactly well hidden here. The entire reason they're telling you there's some imaginary part of the constitution that unlimited illegals can flood in and you can never get rid of them is because the goal is to clog the system so anybody in the world can just show up and it would take more than their lifetime to get rid of them.

The constitution gives congress the right set uniform immigration standards, which they have, and the executive branch executes them. The "due process" is for the government to execute or sentence you to federal prison, aka deny you life or liberty. Foreign nationals do not have some inherent right to live here, and those here illegally can be sent back to their own country for any reason. They are starting with people who committed addional crimes here, but they don't have to, and most of them have had immigration hearings, though that's not required either for expedited removal. The constitution gives congress the right to set immigration standards, and they have granted immigration officials the ability to remove noncitizens before an official hearing.



When the argument starts with words that you can paraphrase to "I don't believe in trials" then the rest is meaningless.
 
Both sides do this. It's one giant shit slinging contest and the pendulum is going to keep swinging back and forth while we delve into a darker place every year, every election. This team politics two party system shit has got to go.

George Washington warned of this exact thing in his 1796 Presidential Address.

“The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, ... is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism.”

“It serves always to distract the public councils and enfeeble the public administration. It agitates the community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms, kindles the animosity of one part against another...”

Washington feared that political parties would:
  • Divide the nation
  • Undermine national unity
  • Distract from the common good
  • Encourage power struggles and revenge politics
  • Pave the way toward despotism (tyranny)

"However political parties may now and then answer popular ends, they are likely in the course of time and things, to become potent engines, by which cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the power of the people and to usurp for themselves the reins of government, destroying afterwards the very engines which have lifted them to unjust dominion."

500px-Gilbert_Stuart_Williamstown_Portrait_of_George_Washington.jpg
 
Just post how you think the President saying how people not getting a trial is not a big deal...
How soon will you make this next thread expressing your outrage and alarmist opinions.

Straight out of project 2025
 
Of course we shouldn't waste time and resources on trials for illegals. How is that even controversial?

Having trials just sends the message to potential illegals that it's worth coming because even if you get caught it may take ages to get deported with their bureaucratic inefficient politicized system, you might even get lucky and get to stay.
 
Very unconstitutional of you.

"No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

Doesnt say "citizens only."

It's implied, the founding fathers just assumed we wouldn't be dumb enough to be wasting tax payers money on stupid trials for illegals and sex changes for El Salvadorian illegals.
 
Anytime the queefers are mad you’re doing something right. One giant trial for all of them, 1000 at a time every 3 days. Then off to their home country or a blue city
 
If they are here ileagly then no they don't need one. All that is needed is to establish they are here ileagly and back rhey go. If they commit a crime (other then being here ileagly) then yes a trial may be needed.
 
I agree, there should be something resembling an arraignment hearing to verify the illegal status and make sure there’s not some special provision that ICE wasn’t aware of for that particular individual.

But this needs to be something that takes a short time, as in a week or two tops. Not this years long drug out nonsense where they get let loose awaiting a hearing then never show up.

I know you disagree, and I respect that, but project “Round ‘em up and get ‘em the fuck out” is an issue that has majority support amongst Americans including many who don’t like or support President Trump.
Trump doesn't even want that bare minimum due process and deported hundreds of people with no due process to include those like Abrego Garcia who was specifically granted protection from deportation, you don't see an issue with that kind of thing?
 
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