Law Trump says Biden Autopen pardons are invalid

[Scerpi]

Why would we opposed this? You know how UFC main careers waste time signing a couple hundred posters? Now imagine a president having to waste time doing that with much higher stakes.

You mean you don't expect the President to take the time to actually review the case and then sign it?

And not just sign several thousand like he's doing a book signing?

Retard

 

[Source]

electronic signing is not like an autosigner.
and there's literally zero presidential acts of any kind signed electronically anywhere in the world.
signing by hand is important because presidential acts like that are part of the historical record, and are archived as such.
it's not a receipt.

A mechanical device for signing documents, autopen has been used by prior presidents. Barack Obama was the first to use one to sign a bill into law back in 2011,

https://www.barrons.com/articles/autopen-biden-pardons-trump-47408b32

 

[Scerpi]

Please back that part up with a source other than Donnie said so.

You actually think Biden reviewed 8,000+ cases before carefully considering whether to issue a pardon?

The same man that the FBI said was too old and demented to charge a crime with...

lol

 

[GearSolidMetal]

 

[Rational Poster]

You actually think Biden reviewed 8,000+ cases before carefully considering whether to issue a pardon?

The same man that the FBI said was too old and demented to charge a crime with...

lol

Do you actually think Trump reads anything?

 

[Fox by the Sea]

A mechanical device for signing documents, autopen has been used by prior presidents. Barack Obama was the first to use one to sign a bill into law back in 2011,

https://www.barrons.com/articles/autopen-biden-pardons-trump-47408b32

point in that post was about electric signatures, not about autopens.
i don' care about autopen usage if it's in full knowledge of the president. in europe we have the ministerial stamp - the minister is away but some internal paperwork about maintenance expenses needs signing, so he is informed and if he agrees his chief of cabinet puts the stamp which looks just like a regular signature. it's not for high level documents though.
point of the whole thread is if biden was in full knowledge of the usage of said autopen. trump says no.
i imagine, given how shot biden was, a lot of people are wondering that too.

 

[avenue94]

You mean you don't expect the President to take the time to actually review the case and then sign it?

And not just sign several thousand like he's doing a book signing?

Retard

Reviewing it and signing it electronically is fine. You don't seem to understand how long it takes to sign things. What's the difference between signing manually or electronically?

This is probably going to blow your mind but modern presidents don't read every single page of the bills they sign either...

 

[Rob Battisti]

Why would we opposed this? You know how UFC main careers waste time signing a couple hundred posters? Now imagine a president having to waste time doing that with much higher stakes.

Well, Biden was the first to do it at the levels which would even entertain such a thing.

A. I don’t like it
B. Biden is a special case with the 25th hour pardons so I think these happening with a auto signed option is particularly troubling.

 

[cincymma79]

Please back that part up with a source other than Donnie said so.

FBI
Jake tapper…fucking autocorrect
Anyone watching the last 4 years

 

[syct23]

Well, Biden was the first to do it at the levels which would even entertain such a thing.

A. I don’t like it
B. Biden is a special case with the 25th hour pardons so I think these happening with a auto signed option is particularly troubling.

Rather interesting,

I work in the Judiciary and electronic signatures from judges and attorneys has become pretty common since Covid when the courts closed down.

It is pretty much still up for debate throughout the country within many jurisdictions. There are many courts that have amended their rules to allow electronic signatures and many courts that deal with it on a case to case bases, and depending on the Judge or Justices involved with the case.

Some don’t like it, naturalist and the others see it as convenient. Considering that the majority of judges/justices are considered contractors, and do not spend a 8-5 hour day at the courthouse.

Most of the time they are writing orders and opinions from home..

Also you have to remember that a majority of cases have a panel of justices assigned to a case, and at times not all of the justices are in the same state at once.

Esignatures are going nowhere imo.

 

[Rob Battisti]

Rather interesting,

I work in the Judiciary and electronic signatures from judges and attorneys has become pretty common since Covid when the courts closed down.

It is pretty much still up for debate throughout the country within many jurisdictions. There are many courts that have amended their rules to allow electronic signatures and many courts that deal with it on a case to case bases, and depending on the Judge or Justices involved with the case.

Some don’t like it, naturalist and the others see it as convenient. Considering that the majority of judges/justices are considered contractors, and do not spend a 8-5 hour day at the courthouse.

Most of the time they are writing orders and opinions from home..

Also you have to remember that a majority of cases have a panel of justices assigned to a case, and at times not all of the justices are in the same state at once.

Esignatures are going nowhere imo.

I don’t hate esignatures as a thing, but presidential pardons should be considered special. Especially given this particular situation

 

[Rational Poster]

Well, Biden was the first to do it at the levels which would even entertain such a thing.

A. I don’t like it
B. Biden is a special case with the 25th hour pardons so I think these happening with a auto signed option is particularly troubling.

Generally speaking, Presidential pardons are some of the last official acts of an administration. So calling them 25th hour is a bit disingenuous. That's usually how they're done.

It's far more unusual for a President to blanket pardon 1600+ people found guilty by the DoJ, some of them violent criminals as one of their first acts.

 

[avenue94]

Well, Biden was the first to do it at the levels which would even entertain such a thing.

A. I don’t like it
B. Biden is a special case with the 25th hour pardons so I think these happening with a auto signed option is particularly troubling.

Firs to do what? Mass pardons, or autopen?

Every president does final hour pardons. I'd prefer we strip the executive of that power over all and give it to a board, like lots of states do these days.

 

[Whippy McGee]

Can anyone illuminate the law on the auto pen?

I'm not going to lie. I used the auto pen for virtually every contract I have signed for my company in the last decade. I think it's legal, unless there is some other law regarding the President? But, I doubt it.

I'd just like to know who was making all the decisions for POTATUS Biden. The man was clearly checked out.

 

[Rob Battisti]

Generally speaking, Presidential pardons are some of the last official acts of an administration. So calling them 25th hour is a bit disingenuous. That's usually how they're done.

It's far more unusual for a President to blanket pardon 1600+ people found guilty by the DoJ, some of them violent criminals as one of their first acts.

My brother in Christ, he did it literally within hours of Trump becoming president. Don’t normalize it.

 

[Rob Battisti]

Firs to do what? Mass pardons, or autopen?

Every president does final hour pardons. I'd prefer we strip the executive of that power over all and give it to a board, like lots of states do these days.

Pardons at the scale of thousands.

No one has done it on the same day of the inauguration.

 

[Rational Poster]

My brother in Christ, he did it literally within hours of Trump becoming president. Don’t normalize it.

Why would pre-emptive pardons like this be necessary if Trump lost?

It's pretty clear now that Biden was correct to pre-emptive pardon, Trump wants to weaponize the DOJ against everyone who slighted him.

This is him whining about it because he can't.

 

[syct23]

I don’t hate esignatures as a thing, but presidential pardons should be considered special. Especially given this particular situation

I see your point and agree,

I have had the opportunity to be apart of many cases and in my experience and what I have had the privy to see from other courts is unless the court has it amended on their rules it is pretty much up to the court on what direction to go.

Most courts that do not have the e signature updated on their rules post Covid tend to stay away from it, incase a party brings it up on appeal of not being in the rules.

The simple thing would to just look up the rules of the court that handed down the decision to pardon. But in this case it wasn’t a judge or court that ordered it. It was the president.

And I’m sure somewhere the WH amended some type of rule to allow the president to Esignature during the pandemic or when he had Covid and had to sign documents.

But I agree Important Documents should have a real signature.

In my experience, cases that Esigs were common were simple Motions, certain dismissal cases, some Orders and Opinions but if it was a big case that took months or weeks and really set precedent then those cases no questions asked only received real signatures.

 

[Mr Holmes]

Trump used autopen on the ~1600 pardons for Jan 6th rioters.

Rules for thee, but not for me.

Source?

 

[HereticBD]

How does one pardon someone who has not been convicted or even prosecuted for a crime?

It's a good question. The pardon power is insane on it's own. "Pre-emptive" pardons seem cartoonishly corrupt. On day 1, you may as well pardon your entire administration and your family and friends, and their children and their children's children, for the prior and future time of, oh' I don't know, a nice round number like 100 years, and then just do whatever the fuck you want. It's so silly.