Opinion Trump orders swathes of US forests to be cut down for timber

[Deorum]

Tell us all about how this rape of the legacy of the nation is a good thing.

"There is just one hope of repulsing the tyrannical ambition of civilization to conquer every niche on the whole earth. That hope is the organization of spirited people who will fight for the freedom of the wilderness."

 

[Deorum]

It still is. There are literally over 110 million acres of designated wilderness where all forms of agriculture, drilling, grazing, logging, mining, mechanized vehicles, motorized vehicles, roads, and permanent structures are prohibited. All forms of commercial development are prohibited. Unlike the formal national parks that are often buzzing with tourists and complete with visitor centers and concessions for modern convenience, WPAs are almost completely devoid of any hints of human civilization at all. They're fucking dangerous quite frankly, and most people stay the hell out. They will never step foot there, and that's great for the ecosystems.

 

[Aegon Spengler]

You can’t expect anything from these scumbags or their Nazi rapist president. Everyone who voted for Trump is a coward and a piece of shit who should burn in hell.

 

[Seano]

You can’t expect anything from these scumbags or their Nazi rapist president. Everyone who voted for Trump is a coward and a piece of shit who should burn in hell.

See a psychiatrist, you loon.

 

[rearnakedchoke]

Can’t have forest fires if you have no forests. Trumping thinking bigly here. I like it.

 

[Kassitus]

I was going to post my usual scathing, sarcastic rebuttal to this, but this is just too sad. Do you honestly not realize what has happened to the conservative party in this country over the last decade? Are you under the impression that Trump and his ilk care about conservative values in any way? They care about enriching themselves and their billionaire buddies at any, and all costs. That's it. That's the whole thing. That one sentence defines the movement in its entirety.

You think Trump cares about the national forests? Are you fucking kidding me? Trump would burn every acre of it to the ground if it meant being able to erect a golden statue of himself in the middle of Yellowstone.

Trump has plenty of flaws of course. The issue with the two party system is its either him or someone like Harris and that's the extent of democracy. Sad at best, a sham at worst.

 

[Boxiana]

Timber is renewable. Its dumb for us to buy it from other countries.

But the ecosystems and other plant and animal life that old growth forests support are not renewable.

 

[Blayt7hh]

I don’t think this is a surprise to anyone. Trump has no regard for the environment. I guess the idea that we could stop the destruction of our planet was naive- someone was probably always going to come along and deliver the final blow.

 

[Teppodama]

I don’t think this is a surprise to anyone. Trump has no regard for the environment. I guess the idea that we could stop the destruction of our planet was naive- someone was probably always going to come along and deliver the final blow.

As long as humanity keeps increasing on the planet it will never be "saved". More people require more resources and those resources have to come from somewhere since we aren't mining, farming or manufacturing in space or on another planet. Also, humanity as a whole is only so willing to deny themselves the luxuries modern humanity has become used to.


This however does suck. I enjoy forests and prefer forrested areas to any city I've been to.

 

[gspieler]

As long as humanity keeps increasing on the planet it will never be "saved". More people require more resources and those resources have to come from somewhere since we aren't mining, farming or manufacturing in space or on another planet. Also, humanity as a whole is only so willing to deny themselves the luxuries modern humanity has become used to.


This however does suck. I enjoy forests and prefer forrested areas to any city I've been to.

This is something the declining-birthrate-alarmists don't seem to grasp. We live in a closed system with a finite amount of resources. Perpetual growth is not a viable option for our species.

 

[markg171]

Jesus Christ what a cunt.

I don't care Margaret

 

[Teppodama]

This is something the declining-birthrate-alarmists don't seem to grasp. We live in a closed system with a finite amount of resources. Perpetual growth is not a viable option for our species.

Fortunately, unfortunately depending on how you view it, birthrates in 1st world nations have been on the decline for some time. Infertility is a real issue as well as increased instances of autism for births that ARE happening. Throw in the ease of access to and the socially acceptability of abortions in the West and its easy to understand some of the business and political imperative toward migrant influx from 2nd and 3rd world nations which still have a more normal birth rate.

It's a dilemma in many ways, bring in migrants to shore up a nation/society that aren't producing enough offspring to maintain needs but see that nation/society fundamentally changed by that influx of migrants that were supposed to save the day. England is very much an example of this.

Regardless of that though the point still stands that there are only so many resources that can be grown, built, mined, etc. As the world population grows so much the demands for those resources and the areas from which to gather them. One reason why war, while horrible, is probably a truly necessary safety valve for the planet and species. We have no natural predators above us on the food chain, we've progressed enough that human lifespans are probably at their greatest, medicine sees us survive more than at any other time in history, at least half the planet enjoys a level of potential nutrition our ancestors could only dream of. We've by and large tamed every environment on the planet except for the most extreme like the ocean floor and the arctic and we can at least visit those in one fashion or another.

War is unfortunately the only current means of truly culling our species and the pressures of over population and resource scarcity are going to see that to likely happen more and more often till we have a right proper world war at some point. Remember, it's mostly 3rd world nations that still seeing a boom in their population growths and those societies tend to have a more pragmatic view when it comes to taking what is needed for one's self and one's people. Their sensibilities are not those of the West by and large.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

I don't care Margaret

I bet you'd care if some alien species decided we were expendable so they could buy more cheap plastic shite.

 

[markg171]

I bet you'd care if some alien species decided we were expendable so they could buy more cheap plastic shite.

Alien species aren't minnows.

Christ you guys are dumb.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

Alien species aren't minnows.

Christ you guys are dumb.

How the fuck do you know what alien species are?

Are you religious? I'm hoping not.

 

[markg171]

How the fuck do you know what alien species are?

Are you religious? I'm hoping not.

If an alien species successfully makes it across space to Earth and can reasonably threaten our species I'm pretty sure they're a tad more intelligent than a minnow.

Just a guess though.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

If an alien species successfully makes it across space to Earth and can reasonably threaten our species I'm pretty sure they're a tad more intelligent than a minnow.

Just a guess though.

They might think we're minnows in comparison to them tbf.

 

[Lycandroid]

You morons realize that before this happens lumber comes from other places ? Cutting down trees in the US doesn't effect the environment any more or less than cutting them down if it happens on the other side of the 49th parallel.

Be prepared to never be able to afford a home if you don't want it made out of lumber.

 

[Rational Poster]

You morons realize that before this happens lumber comes from other places ? Cutting down trees in the US doesn't effect the environment any more or less than cutting them down if it happens on the other side of the 49th parallel.

Be prepared to never be able to afford a home if you don't want it made out of lumber.

The United States prior to this already had over 500M acres of lumber legal to harvest from.

The issues isn't the amount of land available for exploitation, it's the availability of workers in the lumber and sawmill industry.

 

[Andy Capp]

Fortunately, unfortunately depending on how you view it, birthrates in 1st world nations have been on the decline for some time. Infertility is a real issue as well as increased instances of autism for births that ARE happening. Throw in the ease of access to and the socially acceptability of abortions in the West and its easy to understand some of the business and political imperative toward migrant influx from 2nd and 3rd world nations which still have a more normal birth rate.

It's a dilemma in many ways, bring in migrants to shore up a nation/society that aren't producing enough offspring to maintain needs but see that nation/society fundamentally changed by that influx of migrants that were supposed to save the day. England is very much an example of this.

Regardless of that though the point still stands that there are only so many resources that can be grown, built, mined, etc. As the world population grows so much the demands for those resources and the areas from which to gather them. One reason why war, while horrible, is probably a truly necessary safety valve for the planet and species. We have no natural predators above us on the food chain, we've progressed enough that human lifespans are probably at their greatest, medicine sees us survive more than at any other time in history, at least half the planet enjoys a level of potential nutrition our ancestors could only dream of. We've by and large tamed every environment on the planet except for the most extreme like the ocean floor and the arctic and we can at least visit those in one fashion or another.

War is unfortunately the only current means of truly culling our species and the pressures of over population and resource scarcity are going to see that to likely happen more and more often till we have a right proper world war at some point. Remember, it's mostly 3rd world nations that still seeing a boom in their population growths and those societies tend to have a more pragmatic view when it comes to taking what is needed for one's self and one's people. Their sensibilities are not those of the West by and large.

This is quite a long post so please forgive me for disregarding the bulk of it in my response, though I disagree with almost all of it. For example, I don't buy the "we must preserve our culture" argument, nor that wars are necessary because we need to cull the human herd now and then, but I lack the time or interest to try to change your mind on those.

Instead, I have a rather more concrete question for you. Do you have any data that demonstrates an increase in autism cases and/or anything that shows the supposed increase is not due to better diagnostic medicine, rather than a raw per capita change?