• Xenforo Cloud will be upgrading us to version 2.3.5 on March 3rd at 12 AM GMT. This version has increased stability and fixes several bugs. We expect downtime for the duration of the update. The admin team will continue to work on existing issues, templates and upgrade all necessary available addons to minimize impact of this new version.

International Trump is Truly a Putin Cuck - Russia and Trump Says Ukraine Must Elect a New President as Part of a Peace Deal

The rest of the world expects the USA to be their police then shits on us for doing so.

The US has been peddling its army abroad like a pimp peddles his prostitutes. Can't blame other countries for taking you up on your offer.

Also, korea vietnam yugoslavia gulf war afghanistan iraq libya syria lebanon somalia haiti yemen pakistan - we've helped the US in all of those conflicts, and often dealt with the fallout in ways you haven't had to. When has the US helped us again, post-WW2? Niger, maybe?
 
I'm pretty sure people not dying anymore is a concession. Ukraine was never going to be in NATO. That is the consensus of every Russian president since the end of the cold war. They'd never allow it. It would be nuclear armaggeddon and the end of the world as we know it now. Also, Zelensky was literally a regional TV actor of no great wealth and is now a billionaire. He was installed to do a job and he did it amazingly. I'm pretty sure Ukraine is better off with out him at this point.
No, people not dying anymore is not a concession. What Russian leaders think of Ukraine being in NATO is meaningless, as it's not up to them, and they're not going to start a nuclear war over it. Just like they didn't start a nuclear war over Finland joining. It's not interesting whether you think Ukraine is better off without Zelenskyy.
 
To end the war? Save the USA potentially trillions fighting a proxy war Ukraine can't win? To stop sending Russian and Ukranian men to their deaths? To end the war before more nations get involved?

I don't really think this is all that complex. No one, literally no one, is benefitting from this war and its having catastrophic effects on the region and rest of the world.
You're delusional if you think the US is going to end up spending trillions. Not wanting more people to die is a great argument to advocate for Putin stopping the invasion. Not complex at all.
 
Fair deal. The US installed a puppet government to kick things off in 2014, now Russia gets to install their own puppet to end it.
All thru the USSR days they had puppet governments in Ukraine, of course Russia wants it back. During the years of puppet governments the Russians took all the best houses and lands and jobs...
 
It makes sense. They sign a ceasefire, Ukraine gets its overdue election, Zelensky is wildly unpopular and Putin knows it so they will get a leader who is more willing to negotiate and sympathize with Russia. Then they do Instanbul all over again but without anyone sabotaging it. What can Zelensky really say against it when Trump supports it and it's all about democracy.
 
The rest of the world expects the USA to be their police then shits on us for doing so.
oh please, usa haven't fought a war not for their own interest. if you want the soft power and being the global hegemon. you also take up the responsibility of the world police. if you want deglobalization, go ahead nobody is stopping you. just don't come crying when china become the top dog by taking the vacant spot.
 
I think what's happening is that the military industrial complex of America, CIA etc arranged the western support of Ukraine as a provocation of Russia, to reduce Russian power and influence elsewhere, also to sell a hell of a lot of weapons etc at home and away. It also isolates Russia and reduces the influence of their gas on the international market.

It makes everyone except Russia and Ukraine more wealthy.

Trump is not the military industrial complex candidate, indeed they tried to get rid of him several times. Trump has come into Ukraine with the interests of the US people at heart (and by proxy the russian and Ukrainian people's too) and has no cause to support the current war effort.

Of course Russia wants Zelenski gone and for free elections to happen, the current administration of Ukraine is a American military industrial complex funded organisation. It was instrumental.

Europe meanwhile is actually more in bed with the US military industrial complex/CIA than the American democratic government, real electoral change happened in the US not the EU.

So Russia and the US meeting about Ukraine is hilarious, it's appropriate being as they are the countries that can pursue a different narrative.

We live in a clown world where the clowns are the most sane. Go figure.
Lmao
 
To end the war? Save the USA potentially trillions fighting a proxy war Ukraine can't win? To stop sending Russian and Ukranian men to their deaths? To end the war before more nations get involved?

I don't really think this is all that complex. No one, literally no one, is benefitting from this war and its having catastrophic effects on the region and rest of the world.

LMAO trillions?

Hopefully, Taiwan will not make the same mistake and will stop behaving like a belligerant cretin towards China.

You do this in every thread. Somehow bring it back to China discussion. You're a Chinese shill.
 
Last edited:
It makes sense. They sign a ceasefire, Ukraine gets its overdue election, Zelensky is wildly unpopular and Putin knows it so they will get a leader who is more willing to negotiate and sympathize with Russia. Then they do Instanbul all over again but without anyone sabotaging it. What can Zelensky really say against it when Trump supports it and it's all about democracy.

Recent polling suggests Zelensky's approval in Ukraine is higher than Trump's in USA.

This is fake news.
 
To end the war? Save the USA potentially trillions fighting a proxy war Ukraine can't win? To stop sending Russian and Ukranian men to their deaths? To end the war before more nations get involved?

I don't really think this is all that complex. No one, literally no one, is benefitting from this war and its having catastrophic effects on the region and rest of the world.
- I did post this before:

How America’s Aid to Ukraine Actually Works​

Anastasiia Lapatina
Tuesday, July 16, 2024, 1:00 PM

Only a small percentage of the overall aid package takes the form of cash transfers to Kyiv; the vast majority goes right back into the U.S. economy.

It’s been nearly three months since President Biden signed the long-delayed and much-awaited Ukraine supplemental appropriations act, which allocated $62 billion to help Ukraine fight off the Russian full-scale invasion.

So why, six military aid packages later, has U.S. assistance failed to make a meaningful difference on Ukraine’s frontlines? Why have Russian forces continued to advance despite billions of dollars’ worth of promised military spending?

The reason is that after Congress finally acted, aid delivery has been proceeding slowly—at least, too slowly by Ukrainian lights. “The United States gives us too little to even stop Russia from advancing,” Ukrainian military analyst Ivan Kyrychevskyi said in an interview. Karolina Hird, an analyst at the Institute for the Study of War, sees this as a problem of both scale and speed. “Western aid is not yet necessarily arriving at the scale necessary for Ukrainian forces to fully turn the tide,” she added.

There’s also a third problem: the type of assistance. The last six aid packages, all made possible by the supplemental appropriations act, included many shells and air defense munitions but not enough long-range capabilities.

To be sure, the aid has made some difference. Months before the long-awaited supplemental funding was passed, when Ukraine was facing a serious shortage of interceptors for its air defense systems, the Kremlin began capitalizing on the mayhem in Congress. Russia targeted Ukraine’s civilian energy infrastructure, severely damaging the country’s largest hydroelectric power plant and destroying nearly all of the energy infrastructure in the city of Kharkiv, as well as other power plants around the country. Every assistance package passed since April has included air defense munitions to patch up this vulnerability, as Ukraine rushes to repair its energy grid.

And some analysts, including Hird, say American deliveries helped Ukraine stabilize the front, especially in northern Kharkiv Oblast, where Russians launched a short-lived but costly offensive in early May.

Yet Ukrainian analysts and officials are careful about drawing such connections, saying that Ukraine hasn’t yet received enough aid to see a decisive difference on the front line.

“You can’t really say that Russians stopped [in the Kharkiv area] because they were met with intense fire,” said Kyrychevskyi.

Responding to a request for comment, Ukraine’s Ministry of Defense emphasized the country’s acute need for high-precision and long-range weapons to hit Russian airfields and weapons caches inside Russia.

“Our artillery units are getting more ammunition,” the statement concedes. “But the number of shells provided to us by our Western allies is not yet sufficient to satiate all areas of the front, and the Russian army still prevails in terms of artillery fire intensity.” The full statement is available here. A translation into English is available here.

Ukrainian calls for more aid might sound never-ending, but there is a big misconception about how much aid Ukraine truly needs, one Ukrainian defense official told me on condition of anonymity.

“They pledge to give us a million shells and announce it like it’s a huge deal. Meanwhile Russia sometimes spends that many shells in a number of weeks,” the official said.

There are actually a lot of misconceptions about the way U.S. security and financial assistance to Ukraine work.

Since Russia launched its full-scale invasion of Ukraine in 2022, the U.S. has poured tens of billions of dollars into the country’s attempt to survive. For many American voters and commentators, Ukraine aid headlines may evoke images of planes delivering palettes of cash to Kyiv, but this isn’t how the system works.

In reality, only a small percentage of the overall aid package takes the form of cash transfers to Kyiv; the vast majority goes right back into the U.S. economy through several federal government mechanisms.

One of the main mechanisms through which the U.S. provides security assistance to Ukraine is the Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative (USAI)—a funding program led by the Department of Defense. Aimed at bolstering Ukraine’s armed forces, USAI provides funds for training and advising of Ukrainian military personnel, as well as for procurement of weapons. Nearly $32 billion has been allocated to USAI in three years of Russia’s all-out war.

The State Department’s Foreign Military Financing (FMF) program is a similar tool, yet its focus is not only on Ukraine but, rather, U.S. foreign policy goals more broadly. FMF helps American allies like Ukraine buy weapons specifically from U.S. manufacturers, supporting U.S. international interests and its military-industrial complex. FMF funding is not transferred to the recipient and is executed by American government agencies. Congress has allocated roughly $6.3 billion to this program for Ukraine security purposes since 2022.

And then there is the Presidential Drawdown Authority (PDA), which allows the president to authorize the provision of weapons or services from Defense Department stockpiles to partners. This mechanism provides almost immediate help to allies in emergencies, with assistance sometimes arriving within days of presidential approval. Between August 2021 and April 2024, the State Department used PDA 44 times, providing Ukraine with military assistance worth $23.8 billion.

The U.S. also sends direct financial assistance to the Ukrainian government through the United States Agency for International Development (USAID). The majority of USAID funds fill up Ukraine’s budget and keep the country’s government running by paying salaries to state employees. A fraction of those funds address humanitarian projects of one sort or another.

The State Department also supports development initiatives in Ukraine through its Economic Support Funds and provides aid to Ukrainian refugees.

Taken together, these tools form the almost continuous flow of security and financial assistance to Ukraine.

The administration gets money for all these programs mainly through supplemental funding requests to Congress. Since the beginning of Russia’s full-scale invasion in 2022, Congress has approved five Ukraine supplemental appropriation acts, worth a total worth of $174.2 billion.

But that figure can be misleading. Importantly, every supplemental includes many more dollars than end up directly in Ukraine. Things that also fall under the umbrella of “Ukraine aid” include the financing of increased U.S. military presence in Europe, intelligence operations vis-a-vis Ukraine and Russia, support of European states that have also been affected by Russia’s war, and every other activity in any way related to Russia’s war in Ukraine.

The majority of weapons and munitions the U.S. government has sent to Ukraine are pulled from America’s own stockpiles using presidential drawdowns, since this program allows for the quickest delivery. The supplementals then provide the Pentagon with funding to replenish those stockpiles, which it does primarily through the military contractors that build weapons for the U.S. military.

For example, the fifth supplemental covers the costs of the latest assistance package by giving money to the Pentagon to replenish its inventories of the air defense interceptors and artillery shells provided to Ukraine in April. The supplemental will also cover similar assistance packages this upcoming year.

The $62 billion package, however, does nothing to lift some of the key limitations placed on the use and supply of certain American weapons to Ukraine.

For example, to much frustration in Kyiv, Ukraine is still not allowed to use its longest-range weapons, like the Army Tactical Missile System (ATACMS), against military targets far away inside Russia. A recent relaxation of this policy allows Ukraine to use U.S. weapons to target forces inside of Russia who are actively targeting the Kharkiv area, but the general restrictions remain in place.

The package also doesn’t specifically pledge to provide the longest-range missiles the U.S. has; these are needed if Ukraine is to destroy Russian weapons caches and bases deep inside Russia that are being used to attack Ukrainian cities.

Both the relief the current aid package has delivered and its limits highlight the degree of Ukrainian dependence on the United States right now. Indeed, it’s hard to underestimate just how much Ukraine relies on American aid for survival.

“Without (American) support, we don’t have a chance of winning,” Ukraine’s President Volodymyr Zelenskyy told PBS.

The numbers speak for themselves: As of April 2024, the United States has allocated just over $80 billion in military, humanitarian, and financial aid to Ukraine, while European states and institutions have allocated $110 billion, according to the Kiel Institute for the World Economy. Crucially, the U.S. remained the top donor of military assistance to Ukraine, allocating over $2.7 billion more than all European donors. The Kiel Institute defines allocated aid as aid that has already been delivered or is earmarked for delivery, as opposed to future pledges.

In other words, America is responsible for more than half of all military aid to Ukraine.

When the flow of aid stopped because of intra-Republican squabbling, the consequences for Ukraine were catastrophic.

The Ukraine-Russia artillery shell ratio fell as low as 1:10, Zelenskyy said in an interview on PBS NewsHour in April.

Commanders all across the frontline reported rationing munitions and losing men due to scarce resources.

“It is a great miracle that in such conditions the line of defense is where it is now and not further west or north,” Mykola Bielieskov, senior analyst at Ukraine’s Come Back Alive foundation and a research fellow at the National Institute for Strategic Studies, said in an interview. He continued:

The loss of Avdiivka and the further movement of the frontline in that direction, the lost opportunity to inflict greater losses on the enemy …[,] the opportunity for Muscovy to gradually build up groups and open new fronts, the inability to better protect critical infrastructure and people …[,] all these are the consequences of the fact that since October 2023 the Armed Forces of Ukraine have been on starvation rations for munitions and weapons.

The fall of Avdiivka is widely perceived in Ukraine as a direct consequence of the temporary halt in American aid.

Analysis done by the New York Times also revealed that Ukraine’s air defense capabilities dropped significantly due to the halt of American aid.



https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/how-america-s-aid-to-ukraine-actually-works

- US is making money, Brazil is making money, so does UK. Trump could care less about the people dying.
 
The US likes to be the world police. I don't think they'd really want an EU army which is the natural next step if the US withdrew support.

Maybe they do want that, I guess we'll see.

I don't think the EU member states really want an EU army as that's essentially just a new German army and we all know how that ends.
 
Back
Top