Opinion Trump is not the problem

[WarDosAnjos]

The left that gave us the option of Hillary is equally to blame. Never underestimate how many people voted against Hillary rather than for Trump.

Oh I agree. Two horrible choices

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

I'd guess that 95% of the non-Evangelical population is incapable of the kind of shameless dishonesty that Inga showed in that exchange.

It's not dishonesty. I asked why you supported conspiracy theories. You clearly did, right at the beginning of the conversation, by defending a post filled with conspiracy theories related to Trump seizing power contrary to the outcome of elections. You are the one who established the principle that in these forums defending a post or even liking it means you agree with it comprehensively.

Here is the post in question:

trump is an entirely different (and bigger) problem, an egomaniacal dictator who took advantage of our cultural and societal weaknesses and is now poised to seize complete power. everyone seems to think he's gonna fuckin leave in 2020 or 2024 and everyone's talking like it's still the same ol' talk from 15 years ago.

whatever problems we have as a society are completely dwarfed right now to the threat of trump and republicans. while democrats are whining about health care and banks, trump and republicans are literally trying to begin the early stages of transforming the country and reengineer it in a conservative image. they seized the supreme court with cheating, they seize the senate with gerrymandering and voter suppression, they control the bulk of governorships and state legislatures, and they understand inherent biases in the system towards their wholly unappealing agenda by manipulating propaganda and our 2 senator for every shit kicker state rules in our constitution.

when the time comes, trump supporters will completely support trump in his decisions. suspending elections, arresting political opponents and suspending term limits. he even said as much at his pennsylvania rally and then all his supporters go clucking around like little puppet twats saying "he was just joking, calm down." but trump didn't coerce that ground to chant "lock them up" and they cheered rather hard at the thought of him serving 5 terms. then when it actually happens, you see the little snakes and their fuckin viper fangs come out. so people should be far more fucking scared right now than they are with their eyes on the real threats.

but this is why democrats will lose in 2020. they are all afraid or too naive to understand the reality of what is happening. they are unprepared for this battle in 2020 and beyond. trump and republicans will absolutely win this war, and when they do, liberals and anyone that opposed him best realize quickly what a dangerous world that'll be.

To which you replied :

What do you think is a CT in that?

The CT in that is obvious. I responded by suggesting that your known habit of demonizing political groups that oppose your wishes leads you to non-objective conclusions. I think your response of demonizing me as part of a category of people you disdain, evangelicals, rather than as an individual, is a superb illustration of how you have developed the political blindspots that have led you to support and defend political conspiracy theories.

 

[Licensed2Shrimp]

Since Trump's just going to stay in office and ignore the elections, liberals can just skip voting and get to work on selling their house and finally moving to Canada like they've been promising for decades.

 

[Jack V Savage]

It's not dishonesty. I asked why you supported conspiracy theories. You clearly did, right at the beginning of the conversation, by defending a post filled with conspiracy theories related to Trump seizing power contrary to the outcome of elections. You are the one who established the principle that in these forums defending a post or even liking it means you agree with it comprehensively.

Here is the post in question:


To which you replied :

The CT in that is obvious. I responded by suggesting that your known habit of demonizing political groups that oppose your wishes leads you to non-objective conclusions. I think your response of demonizing me as part of a category of people you disdain, evangelicals, rather than as an individual, is a superb illustration of how you have developed the political blindspots that have led you to support and defend political conspiracy theories.

So here's more shameless dishonesty. "What's the CT in that?" is what is called a "question." And in this case, the question was leading in to my own commentary that spelled out some objections to the post. Yet your response to me ignored my own points and treated me as fully endorsing sloppy's points. That is, simply, dishonest and indefensible behavior by you.

Then note that it is you as an individual whose behavior I criticized. So the second half of your post is as dishonest as the first (and you repeat the clearly false allegations that I'm peddling a CT).

Note that what you label is "CT" is my belief that Trump is likely to engage in the same behavior in the next campaign as he did in the last and my observation that his power has grown since then, and thus the threat such behavior poses to America is higher.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

So here's more shameless dishonesty. "What's the CT in that?" is what is called a "question." And in this case, the question was leading in to my own commentary that spelled out some objections to the post. Yet your response to me ignored my own points and treated me as fully endorsing sloppy's points. That is, simply, dishonest and indefensible behavior by you.

Then note that it is you as an individual whose behavior I criticized. So the second half of your post is as dishonest as the first (and you repeat the clearly false allegations that I'm peddling a CT).

Yes, and that question clearly inferred that you did not see a CT in that conspiracy laden comment.

You also liked an unsourced comment claiming polls show 50% of Republicans want to cancel the next election or would support that action if it were taken. Why would someone of your vast intellect fall for such a silly and flimsy claim?

 

[Licensed2Shrimp]

Note that what you label is "CT" is my belief that Trump is likely to engage in the same behavior in the next campaign as he did in the last and my observation that his power has grown since then, and thus the threat such behavior poses to America is higher.

Hillary Clinton actually did what she was accused of, Jackie boy. Unlike your little Piss Dossier Russian Collusion fairy tale.

We're not Hillary's whipping boys, her and her surrogates can stop accusing everyone else of the shit she did now. The election's over.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Yes, and that question clearly inferred that you did not see a CT in that conspiracy laden comment.

You mean "implied," but that's wrong, too, given that I followed the question by pointing out some problems with the post and listing some areas of legitimate concern. If my appeal to common sense and normal English doesn't work for you, you might also note that you're talking to the guy whose words we're interpreting, and that if your initial misreading was an honest mistake, your persistence in advancing it in the face of my subsequent comments closes off that possibility. Again, I don't see any way to avoid the conclusion that you were simply lying.

You also liked an unsourced comment claiming polls show 50% of Republicans want to cancel the next election or would support that action if it were taken. Why would someone of your vast intellect fall for such a silly and flimsy claim?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/555769001

The Atlantic had a piece urging some caution in interpreting the results that makes some solid points, but the results remain and are scary to those of us who believe in the American project.

 

[godking]

Old but Gold from Jimmy Dore

“Trump is not the problem, he’s a symptom of the problem.

Why do you think people voted for Trump? Because everything is going great in their lives?

Trump didn’t take us to Iraq, Trump didn’t pass NAFTA, Trump didn’t bail out the banks and screw the home owners.

If people actually knew what Bill Clinton and Barack Obama actually did, they would be screaming bloody murder.

The Democratic Party completely turned their back on workers, they got in bed with Wall Street and Silicon Valley.

In order to get better we have to come to terms with this. We have to come to terms with what’s wrong.

People are hurting, half the country is POOR you assholes!

When both parties turn their back on the workers their gonna go to a demigod (Trump)

Which is why Hilary lost to an orange clown.

-Jimmy Dore

A true liberal.

Trump is a reaction to the status quo which is why he won against the status quo candidate Hillary Clinton.

As dissapointing as a president Trump has proven to be for good and for ill his election has effectivelly ended the era of status quo leave things as they are politicians.

 

[Licensed2Shrimp]

Watching Hillary Clinton go on her apology farewell tour and visibly seethe with envy has been one of the best things about Trump.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

You mean "implied," but that's wrong, too, given that I followed the question by pointing out some problems with the post and listing some areas of legitimate concern.

Ah, I see, so liking or initially supporting a post doesn't mean you agree comprehensively? That's quite an admission of hypocrisy given your recent attacks on myself and others on such grounds. You don't much like playing by the rules you set for others.

I've got to run and probably won;t be on for a few days or more, so please enjoy having the last word. Make it real nasty like only you can. Hope you have a nice Memorial Day tomorrow.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Ah, I see, so liking or initially supporting a post doesn't mean you agree comprehensively? That's quite an admission of hypocrisy given your recent attacks on myself and others on such grounds. You don't much like playing by the rules you set for others.

That's yet another dishonest interpretation. I asked a question leading into a balanced critique of a post. And you have tried to assert that that means that I fully endorse the post (and your ungenerous interpretation of it at that).

I've got to run and probably won;t be on for a few days or more, so please enjoy having the last word. Make it real nasty like only you can. Hope you have a nice Memorial Day tomorrow.

I like that noirish comment here. As Sam Spade says, "the cheaper the crook, the gaudier the patter."

 

[Wingslaught]

Since Trump's just going to stay in office and ignore the elections, liberals can just skip voting and get to work on selling their house and finally moving to Canada like they've been promising for decades.

Yes, they should put their money where their mouths are, so to speak. If you really believe Trump will not vacate if he loses, please do not vote

 

[Licensed2Shrimp]

Yes, they should put their money where their mouths are, so to speak. If you really believe Trump will not vacate if he loses, please do not vote

To behave otherwise would suggest that they don't really believe what they're shovelling. If America's already a fascist dictatorship, why legitimize it by showing up to the polls?

 

[Trotsky]

I recently read something online that stated more than 50% of republicans polled would gladly cancel the 2020 election

So yeah your point of arresting the front runner in 2016 is completely logical. It’s something the republican base wanted.

Source? Seems like obvious bullshit.

I think the inference that Trump will not vacate the presidency in 2020 or 2024 is irrational and hysterical. The idea that the right is systematically preparing to suspend term limits to prolong Trump's ascendancy is a straightforward CT.

@IngaVovchanchyn I think you owe Kong an apology. His terminology is inaccurate ("cancel" versus "postpone") but the position is fundamentally the same: Republicans don't give a shit about democracy.

A poll found that 52% of people who identify as or lean Republican said they would support postponing the 2020 election to ensure that only eligible citizens could vote if it was proposed by President Trump.

The survey, conducted by two academics and published in the Washington Post on Thursday, interviewed a sample of 1,325 Americans from June 5-20 and focused on the 650 people who said they were or leaned toward the GOP.

The poll also found that 56% said they would support such action — which would be taken to stop alleged voter fraud — if it was supported by both Trump and Republican members of Congress.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...d-support-postponing-2020-election/555769001/

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

@IngaVovchanchyn I think you owe Kong an apology. His terminology is inaccurate ("cancel" versus "postpone") but the position is fundamentally the same: Republicans don't give a shit about democracy.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...d-support-postponing-2020-election/555769001/

Yes postpone. But they would be happy with canceling it completely.

Semantics really

 

[ferrisjso]

Old but Gold from Jimmy Dore

“Trump is not the problem, he’s a symptom of the problem.

Why do you think people voted for Trump? Because everything is going great in their lives?

Trump didn’t take us to Iraq, Trump didn’t pass NAFTA, Trump didn’t bail out the banks and screw the home owners.

If people actually knew what Bill Clinton and Barack Obama actually did, they would be screaming bloody murder.

The Democratic Party completely turned their back on workers, they got in bed with Wall Street and Silicon Valley.

In order to get better we have to come to terms with this. We have to come to terms with what’s wrong.

People are hurting, half the country is POOR you assholes!

When both parties turn their back on the workers their gonna go to a demigod (Trump)

Which is why Hilary lost to an orange clown.

-Jimmy Dore

A true liberal.

Well yeah. If you think some polite monster like Ted Cruz or Marco Rubio is an improvement cause of the magic of manners you shouldn't be commenting on politics. Yet most of the people commenting professionally on politics firmly believe that cause they are conservatives at heart. Conservatives confuse Trump hate for conservative hate.

Course Trump is awful but one or two qualifiers all the shitty things he's done would be done under a generic Republican President and were done almost to a t by George Bush II. The him being uniquely evil really just has to do with crap that doesn't matter.

 

[franklinstower]

edit

 

[PEB]

@IngaVovchanchyn I think you owe Kong an apology. His terminology is inaccurate ("cancel" versus "postpone") but the position is fundamentally the same: Republicans don't give a shit about democracy.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...d-support-postponing-2020-election/555769001/

Trump wants to ride this like an oligarch and rule like a king and like minded people like Putin wants to disband the UN and NATO and destroy people's rights to free press and "Rage about the liberal media and some over-the-top claims that they have a neoliberal agenda" while claiming its all a secret agenda by Hillary, Bill and Obama. I do blame the Democratic party for getting us into this mess and Hillary for how horrible she was as a candidate and hanging around the same social circles as Trump seriously. Democrats need to distance themselves from the Hillary machine and even if they don't like Bernie at least entertain ideas like making college more affordable and raising wages for people who work in largely dead end areas such as in the services area like restaurants and department stores. But the big one is making healthcare more affordable Colorado just pasted legislation making the highest price one has to pay for diabetes medication at 100 dollars per month. An example they give for one of the popular prescriptions cost people between 495 to 750 per month. I have not seen into specifics but my guess that Colorado subsidizes some of this cost.

 

[franklinstower]

The left that gave us the option of Hillary is equally to blame. Never underestimate how many people voted against Hillary rather than for Trump.

Unfortunately it seems they have learned absolutely nothing from that self defeat and are making the exact same mistakes this time around. I really, really hope it does not work for them as I am sick of being a part of that shitty party.

 

[ultramanhyata]

As dissapointing as a president Trump has proven to be for good and for ill his election has effectivelly ended the era of status quo leave things as they are politicians.

The only type of non "status quo" politicians Trump's presidency may have ushered in by example would be unqualified, inept, belligerent, immature and autocratic.

Are those the type of new breed politicians we should be looking for to improve the US government?