Social Transgender Megathread Vol. 2

[Hog-train]

If they are trans, they certainly had been suffering from gender dysphoria at least at some point in their lives otherwise they wouldn't be trans. I was just chiming in that gender dysphoria cannot be written off as basic as a delusion.

The majority of the trans actvists are now claiming you don't need to have gender dysphoria to be trans. This includes a lot of the female born nonbinary people we're seeing.

There is now a split in the community between the "old school" trans people who believe you need to have dysphoria to be trans and that it's a medical issue. These people are called trans-medicalists or truscum.

And then the new school who think it's any or all people can be trans.

 

[El Panteron]

The majority of the trans actvists are now claiming you don't need to have gender dysphoria to be trans. This includes a lot of the female born nonbinary people we're seeing.

There is now a split in the community between the "old school" trans people who believe you need to have dysphoria to be trans and that it's a medical issue. These people are called trans-medicalists or truscum.

And then the new school who think it's any or all people can be trans.

That's a consequence of the experiences OG trans had with their care. Until I think 2002-ish (don't quote me on that) gender dysphoria was classified as "gender identity disorder" in the DSM and it was thought the suffering was a core part of the experience.
Also in past decades no one ever really cared about NBs and the likes, while now you could argue they fall under the trans umbrella - not my words, have NB friends.
The only issue here is about political alliance, and who these people want to associate with in fighting for rights.

 

[El Panteron]

Gender Dysphoria is a mental illness defined by the DSM-5 though. That is much different than me saying that I KO Jon Jones, that's a bad faith comparison

Brother don't take the DSM as the bible, they fuck up and have to make changes all the time. People put way too much trust in that thing and in experiencing mental illness as a clearly defined and predictable thing. It isn't.
Remember these are just definitions for practical use, handy to treat people and access funds in a way that makes sense.

 

[Soggust]

You've got the spirit but it isn't exactly right, gender dysphoria is controversial among both specialists and the trans themselves, as it doesn't really present with a standard set of symptoms and it just describes a general discomfort in your body, coming (probably) from dissonance between your idea of self and your looks. It's by all means a "functional" illness as the diagnosis allows trans to access the care they need and take hormons or chop they dick off or whatever, but it's a reach to describe it as an actual illness.

Sorry my friend, I have no idea how I missed this response.

I don't understand why it isn't an apt comparison. Isn't that how depression is? Aren't there many symptoms to depression? Many differing degrees of depression?

Some folks get sad, some don't clean their house, some don't shower, etc. It "doesn't really present with a standard set of symptoms and it just describes a general discomfort in your body"? Wouldn't you agree that some folks who have a little depression from getting dumped by a shitty girlfriend might not be "mentally ill" the same way a guy who lost his wife and kids in a car accident or suffered chronic lifelong depression might be? Certainly, some trans folks do have a high level of discomfort and dysphoria and others may not but just use it for healthcare access, right?

My only point was that not all trans people suffer from dysphoria. I say that because when people use the DSM-5 to claim gender dysphoria as being a mental illness, they often exclude the part mentioning that it is not the same as being transgender.

The DSM–5 articulates explicitly that “gender non-conformity is not in itself a mental disorder.”

src

 

[El Panteron]

Sorry my friend, I have no idea how I missed this response.

I don't understand why it isn't an apt comparison. Isn't that how depression is? Aren't there many symptoms to depression? Many differing degrees of depression?

Some folks get sad, some don't clean their house, some don't shower, etc. It "doesn't really present with a standard set of symptoms and it just describes a general discomfort in your body"? Wouldn't you agree that some folks who have a little depression from getting dumped by a shitty girlfriend might not be "mentally ill" the same way a guy who lost his wife and kids in a car accident or suffered chronic lifelong depression might be? Certainly, some trans folks do have a high level of discomfort and dysphoria and others may not but just use it for healthcare access, right?

My only point was that not all trans people suffer from dysphoria. I say that because when people use the DSM-5 to claim gender dysphoria as being a mental illness, they often exclude the part mentioning that it is not the same as being transgender.



src

Then I guess I misinterpreted your post as you say all agreeable stuff.
But yes there are different manifestations of depression, not all symptoms need to show up for it to be classified as such, just any 5 of 9 criteria.

Also when someone gets dumped and gets "depressed" we actually don't even call it depression but grieving, and yes it presents exactly the same way, only it's something "normal" and doesn't need to be treated as an illness.

Also yes to the last paragraph.

Ninja edit: reminder that the DSM is for practical use and it's best not to use it for theoretical understanding of illnesses

 

[RoastBeast]

Brother it's obviously not the same thing, I get you struggle to empathise but not all conflics are of the same scale. I would hope this'd be an apparent thing.

Wanting to be something you're not is something that everyone deals with.

 

[El Panteron]

Wanting to be something you're not is something that everyone deals with.

It isn't wanting to be something else. It's noticing you have a different sense of self than what you look like. It's something they notice not something they wish. They don't wish to be something they're not.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

 

[Fox by the Sea]

And then the new school who think it's any or all people can be trans.

Used to be, to be a real tranny was a very expensive, almost luxury life. required a lot of effort, money, dedication, painful operations. the poors were just crossdressers, the weirdo ones with five oclock shadows and manhands wearing bad-fitting dresses and scaring children.

now, you don't need any effort to be one. just say you are and that's it. it completely impoverished the tranny life experience and made the entire tranny category 99% poverty lifestyle.

 

[BigDeadFreak]

It isn't wanting to be something else. It's noticing you have a different sense of self than what you look like. It's something they notice not something they wish. They don't wish to be something they're not.

Exactly. I look like an ugly bloke but deep down my sense of self is very hansom. I think women should treat me according to my identity, not the external 'reality'.

 

[Flower2dPeople]

Did the "Why does it bother you" crew left this thread already?

 

[The_Renaissance]

This is fucking INSANE, but not surprising in the slightest. Cannot believe there are people out there who support this sick, twisted group of people.

 

[Rob Battisti]

Why are you so obsessed with what bathroom they go into?

 

[El Panteron]

Exactly. I look like an ugly bloke but deep down my sense of self is very hansom. I think women should treat me according to my identity, not the external 'reality'.

Wow, never herd this joke before, you should take up comedy full time

 

[BigDeadFreak]

Wow, never herd this joke before, you should take up comedy full time

What we both said is a joke, the only difference is I have the self-awareness to realise it.

 

[SummerStriker]

I spent 10 minutes in his links and couldn't figure out where the chart is from. Looks like bullshit LARPing as a researcher.

 

[El Panteron]

What we both said is a joke, the only difference is I have the self-awareness to realise it.

Oh no some guy on the internet told me decades of research are a joke!

 

[El Panteron]

I spent 10 minutes in his links and couldn't figure out where the chart is from. Looks like bullshit LARPing as a researcher.

Also checking prison data for sexual assault is meaningless, 99% of predators don't ever get caught (without even accounting for the fact the vast majority of assaults isn't even reported). Might as well check Sherdog data for women.

EDIT: checked the stats and it's actually 94% not 99%. I'd like to apologise for that extra 5%, god prorect our brave policemen

 

[BigDeadFreak]

Oh no some guy on the internet told me decades of research are a joke!

What research? Men cannot become women.

 

[El Panteron]

What research? Men cannot become women.

Brother no one becomes anything. It's folks changing their appearance how they like. What they "are", I don't care. Not here to argue metaphysics with a halfwit.