Training Judo and BJJ

[Prokofievian]

At some point I, invariably, plan on training both. However, someone told me that it was perhaps a good idea to get really good at one, before training in the other, citing that one could then be better understood for the purposes of applying it to the other.

I just started BJJ a month ago, and I have little, to no, knowledge of how to efficiently take the fight to the ground. We have a 3 time olympian teaching somewhere here, and a bunch of blackbelts teaching Judo, so we have good clubs it looks like.

Would it be prudent to study both at the same time? Or should I perhaps wait until I'm at a more advanced level in BJJ before taking Judo?

The way I see it is at some point I'll probably enter a competition in BJJ, and 2 points are awarded for a takedown, so why not try to get 2 points off the bat? If you could harai-goshi someone into oblivion while going to the ground and get side-control, why wouldnt you?

Is there something I'm missing here?

 

[radman]

It depends on how much of you are at learning-physical learning. And also remember to be judicious when to apply techniques from Judo or BJJ in either trainning session.

But since your only beginning, when trainning BJJ, just be focused on the BJJ lessons at hand. When trainning Judo, stay focused on Judo. But the day you start doing stand up in BJJ, your Judo "bag of tricks" will come in handy. And much earlier, when doing Newaza, your BJJ will come in handy- especially at a much earlierpace.

But I believe starting as beginners in both disciplines will only help your game.:icon_chee

 

[ijustwannasurf]

Double post

 

[ijustwannasurf]

I don't think you're missing anything. I'm in somewhat of the same boat, and I've decided to stick with BJJ and have a shodan friend of mine school me on throws. My focus is jiujitsu competitions, so having the judo stand up will be an advantage, but I don't think I need the newaza, so I'd rather just get specific stand up instruction instead of formal judo training.
I'm lucky to have a cool friend that can help me out, so I don't need to officially attend two academies. But I'd say if you can fit judo in one day a week, do it. Judo clubs tend to be hella cheap compared to jiujitsu schools

 

[Jimmy Cerra]

I did 3 months of BJJ, and 5 more of no-gi, before I started judo. I found that they gave me a big head start on the ground. I was even tapping out black belts there (honestly, some of them pretty good judoka), but standup I was very much a noob. The main advantages of starting grappling sooner, however, were in my fighting spirit and a mentality of learning. This helped me train harder and thus improve faster than some of my peers.

I feel training judo and BJJ at the same time can be very helpful for you, not just in takedowns. Sweeps are just takedowns from your back. The pins, turnovers, turtle attacks, and more formal way of doing submissions that you learn in judo are sometimes glanced over by some BJJ instructors, but they can help you out a lot. It runs the other way too. The BJJ approach to fighting intellectually will be very beneficial to your judo too. They are great complements and I feel that they will both help your jiu-jitsu if you have a progressive instructor.

 

[georgejjr]

I'd start them simultaneously, they actually complement each other very well. Just remember, when you start do BJJ in the BJJ club, judo in the judo club (ie don't spend all your time in BJJ working on throws and all your time in judo working on submissions). After you get better at both you can mix and match both, combining them into your own personal combo.

 

[Prokofievian]

I was thinking that Judo newaza might actually be an interesting addition to BJJ being that it seems very focused on pins(to the layman's eye anyways) which I do find very difficult to do.

And apparently, according to Darkslide, doing Judo will make me less of a baby-eating heathen so that's positive.:icon_chee

 

[Joose]

I was thinking that Judo newaza might actually be an interesting addition to BJJ being that it seems very focused on pins(to the layman's eye anyways) which I do find very difficult to do.

And apparently, according to Darkslide, doing Judo will make me less of a baby-eating heathen so that's positive.:icon_chee

it is a beautiful addition to bjj. Pinning is one way to win in judo and it is practiced a lot and it will help your bjj game a ton. Being pinned sucks massive balls. You can waste a lot of energy getting out and open yourself up for submissions while escaping. Plus it is hard to breathe when someone is pinning you. Kills a lot of the fighters spirit.

 

[Cirno]

it is a beautiful addition to bjj. Pinning is one way to win in judo and it is practiced a lot and it will help your bjj game a ton. Being pinned sucks massive balls. You can waste a lot of energy getting out and open yourself up for submissions while escaping. Plus it is hard to breathe when someone is pinning you. Kills a lot of the fighters spirit.

Agreed. One thing I tell my jits friends while rolling is this:

The pin is to judo as the guard is to BJJ.

And then I pin the crap out of them. :icon_chee

 

[Prokofievian]

blargh, must have more opinions.

 

[wallsac]

Look up Dave Camarillo. Or go to dcacademy.tv

He's the man at crossing these two arts.

 

[yovan]

I'd say concentrate on one first.

I trained exclusively training in Judo (2nd degree Brown) before switching over to BJJ. It's hard enough grasping the basics of one discipline, I'd imagine doing both would be overload, but maybe that's just me.

Also, different Judo schools ahve different opinions on groundfighting. I'd do some research to ensure you pick a Judo school that likes to train on the ground.

Some Judo schools teach you to hit the ground and turtle up-- waiting for the ref to stand it back up. I'd avoid those schools.

 

[Nickynoneck]

well i have done judo for over a year an ahalf and iam gonna try bjj for the first time this summer and iam looking forward to it .

i would saying having a good base of either would help you in both arts either doing bjj or judo before trying one or the other .

 

[Dave Camarillo]

However, someone told me that it was perhaps a good idea to get really good at one, before training in the other, citing that one could then be better understood for the purposes of applying it to the other.

I agree. My choice is Judo.

Here

 

[Jimmy Cerra]

I agree. My choice is Judo.

Here’s why:

Judo gives you the ability to push your technique in stressful situations by focusing on hip coordination and core strength. BJJ falls short in that important area.

Stressful situations: Street fights or MMA.

JJ (BJJ) focuses on the application of “pure technique” before that of "powerful technique". The avenue of experience in JJ is traditionally short and narrow minded. With most time dedicated to the development and application of “pure technique” versus "powerful technique" there is an overwhelming tendency to over compensate and thus learn to not utilize and develop the proper attributes to counter stressful situations. The student tends to learn that using power is “bad” and thus learns to be, simply put, lazy.

The main line in JJ theory: If you find an obstacle, go around it, not through it. This turns into the student’s default setting. They hear it in their heads at the start and finish of every training session. Many times this becomes their only line of perspective. They become saturated in it, and in turn suffer the consequences. Their bodies are underdeveloped. They tire easy in stressful situations. And when pure technique is countered, they fold. They have a mental breakdown that coincides with the lack of options. A body that has been trained to relax will give up the battle when relaxing is not the answer.

I could continue on about the importance of core strength and hip movement and its momentous affect on learning Jiu-Jitsu, but I will end here to focus on the main question. What is the better option for ones initial push into Gi-Grappling arts?

By far the answer is Judo. Why? It is simple: Starting with JJ teaches you to be lazy, Starting with Judo teaches you to be strong. It is easier to learn “pure technique” at a later time (after years of initial investment). It is not as easy, by a long shot, to learn, or better develop, the precise hip movement and core strength that is required by today’s aspiring Martial Artist to reach an elite level. The ship sails with the current, not against it.

Note: I describe specific and general tendencies that I have seen as an instructor to answer this question. I recognize both positives and negatives of JJ and Judo. I have written about them many times in articles and threads on my message board.

Didn't Kano say the same thing about judo? That is, that you should use that "jj main line" theory when doing it? Indeed he did suggest it - just that it isn't applicable everywhere. And TTYTT, my own BJJ instructor says the exact same thing about BJJ. Sometimes you go around, sometimes you use your strength. Anyway, I agree with what you are saying, but I don't think it is a "judo" or "BJJ" stylistic philosophy. It's more of a general philosophy. Judo and BJJ can be taught using that style. I've seen judo schools that teach that passive strategy, and I've seen BJJ programs that have a very hard style.

From what I've seen, it would be hard to tell the difference between a kid's judo and kid's BJJ class. In fact, I think judo and BJJ are the same thing when taught to tots. The only exception is in competition. But there, you're arguing whether freestyle or folkstyle is better for children. I don't think the distinction matters as long as you are teaching them right. Just like the it doesn't matter if they play basketball over soccer, I don't think it makes a difference if they find BJJ or Judo better. As long as they are happy and learning right.

 

[Dave Camarillo]

repeat

 

[Dave Camarillo]

Basketball and soccer both require the student to stand and run. Judo and BJJ are totally different in that respect. You can go your whole career doing 90% ground and 10% standing in JJ. Judo is generally the opposite.

And at an Elite level I disagree about the philosophy. Grip fighting for example is a knock-out-drag-out battle of broken grips, smashed fingers, and rapid movement. That is almost never seen at an elite level BJJ comp. But is common practice in Olympic Judo.

And an out of shape JJ'er could win a JJ comp (with technique), not the same for Judo. They are very different in application and philosophy. Even if the wording is similar, the meaning changes when in practice and competition.

 

[vince89]

Good post Dave, I agree.

 

[Jimmy Cerra]

Basketball and soccer both require the student to stand and run. Judo and BJJ are totally different in that respect. You can go your whole career doing 90% ground and 10% standing in JJ. Judo is generally the opposite.

And at an Elite level I disagree about the philosophy. Grip fighting for example is a knock-out-drag-out battle of broken grips, smashed fingers, and rapid movement. That is almost never seen at an elite level BJJ comp. But is common practice in Olympic Judo.

And an out of shape JJ'er could win a JJ comp (with technique), not the same for Judo. They are very different in application and philosophy. Even if the wording is similar, the meaning changes when in practice and competition.

We're talking about kids not elite Olympians! Anyway, I don't think judo or BJJ should be practiced independently at all, but that's my bias showing there.

 

[Dave Camarillo]

I was using that as an extreme example to show that starting with Judo increases a students ability to retroactively learn "pure technique". That being because the student can already move like a well tuned machine.

This stems from the application of the art.

Olympians were once kids themselves. They have just reached an elite level because of their focus, which brings us back to the main point.

I am not against cross-training, I train UFC fighters. For them it is a must. But at an early age, if the question is one or the other, I choose Judo. And thats because of how different it is and the superior base it gives you.