Training Judo and BJJ

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Prokofievian, Apr 1, 2008.

  1. Prokofievian

    Prokofievian Silver Belt

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    At some point I, invariably, plan on training both. However, someone told me that it was perhaps a good idea to get really good at one, before training in the other, citing that one could then be better understood for the purposes of applying it to the other.

    I just started BJJ a month ago, and I have little, to no, knowledge of how to efficiently take the fight to the ground. We have a 3 time olympian teaching somewhere here, and a bunch of blackbelts teaching Judo, so we have good clubs it looks like.

    Would it be prudent to study both at the same time? Or should I perhaps wait until I'm at a more advanced level in BJJ before taking Judo?

    The way I see it is at some point I'll probably enter a competition in BJJ, and 2 points are awarded for a takedown, so why not try to get 2 points off the bat? If you could harai-goshi someone into oblivion while going to the ground and get side-control, why wouldnt you?

    Is there something I'm missing here?
     
  2. radman

    radman Purple Belt

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    It depends on how much of you are at learning-physical learning. And also remember to be judicious when to apply techniques from Judo or BJJ in either trainning session.

    But since your only beginning, when trainning BJJ, just be focused on the BJJ lessons at hand. When trainning Judo, stay focused on Judo. But the day you start doing stand up in BJJ, your Judo "bag of tricks" will come in handy. And much earlier, when doing Newaza, your BJJ will come in handy- especially at a much earlierpace.

    But I believe starting as beginners in both disciplines will only help your game.:icon_chee
     
  3. ijustwannasurf

    ijustwannasurf Brown Belt

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    Double post
     
  4. ijustwannasurf

    ijustwannasurf Brown Belt

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    I don't think you're missing anything. I'm in somewhat of the same boat, and I've decided to stick with BJJ and have a shodan friend of mine school me on throws. My focus is jiujitsu competitions, so having the judo stand up will be an advantage, but I don't think I need the newaza, so I'd rather just get specific stand up instruction instead of formal judo training.
    I'm lucky to have a cool friend that can help me out, so I don't need to officially attend two academies. But I'd say if you can fit judo in one day a week, do it. Judo clubs tend to be hella cheap compared to jiujitsu schools
     
  5. Jimmy Cerra

    Jimmy Cerra Amateur Fighter

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    I did 3 months of BJJ, and 5 more of no-gi, before I started judo. I found that they gave me a big head start on the ground. I was even tapping out black belts there (honestly, some of them pretty good judoka), but standup I was very much a noob. The main advantages of starting grappling sooner, however, were in my fighting spirit and a mentality of learning. This helped me train harder and thus improve faster than some of my peers.

    I feel training judo and BJJ at the same time can be very helpful for you, not just in takedowns. Sweeps are just takedowns from your back. The pins, turnovers, turtle attacks, and more formal way of doing submissions that you learn in judo are sometimes glanced over by some BJJ instructors, but they can help you out a lot. It runs the other way too. The BJJ approach to fighting intellectually will be very beneficial to your judo too. They are great complements and I feel that they will both help your jiu-jitsu if you have a progressive instructor.
     
  6. georgejjr

    georgejjr Black Belt

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    I'd start them simultaneously, they actually complement each other very well. Just remember, when you start do BJJ in the BJJ club, judo in the judo club (ie don't spend all your time in BJJ working on throws and all your time in judo working on submissions). After you get better at both you can mix and match both, combining them into your own personal combo.
     
  7. Prokofievian

    Prokofievian Silver Belt

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    I was thinking that Judo newaza might actually be an interesting addition to BJJ being that it seems very focused on pins(to the layman's eye anyways) which I do find very difficult to do.

    And apparently, according to Darkslide, doing Judo will make me less of a baby-eating heathen so that's positive.:icon_chee
     
  8. Joose

    Joose Purple Belt

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    it is a beautiful addition to bjj. Pinning is one way to win in judo and it is practiced a lot and it will help your bjj game a ton. Being pinned sucks massive balls. You can waste a lot of energy getting out and open yourself up for submissions while escaping. Plus it is hard to breathe when someone is pinning you. Kills a lot of the fighters spirit.
     
  9. Cirno

    Cirno Orange Belt

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    Agreed. One thing I tell my jits friends while rolling is this:

    The pin is to judo as the guard is to BJJ.

    And then I pin the crap out of them. :icon_chee
     
  10. Prokofievian

    Prokofievian Silver Belt

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    blargh, must have more opinions.
     
  11. wallsac

    wallsac Orange Belt

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    Look up Dave Camarillo. Or go to dcacademy.tv

    He's the man at crossing these two arts.
     
  12. yovan

    yovan Purple Belt

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    I'd say concentrate on one first.

    I trained exclusively training in Judo (2nd degree Brown) before switching over to BJJ. It's hard enough grasping the basics of one discipline, I'd imagine doing both would be overload, but maybe that's just me.

    Also, different Judo schools ahve different opinions on groundfighting. I'd do some research to ensure you pick a Judo school that likes to train on the ground.

    Some Judo schools teach you to hit the ground and turtle up-- waiting for the ref to stand it back up. I'd avoid those schools.
     
  13. Nickynoneck

    Nickynoneck Purple Belt

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    well i have done judo for over a year an ahalf and iam gonna try bjj for the first time this summer and iam looking forward to it .

    i would saying having a good base of either would help you in both arts either doing bjj or judo before trying one or the other .
     
  14. Dave Camarillo

    Dave Camarillo White Belt

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    I agree. My choice is Judo.

    Here
     
  15. Jimmy Cerra

    Jimmy Cerra Amateur Fighter

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    Didn't Kano say the same thing about judo? That is, that you should use that "jj main line" theory when doing it? Indeed he did suggest it - just that it isn't applicable everywhere. And TTYTT, my own BJJ instructor says the exact same thing about BJJ. Sometimes you go around, sometimes you use your strength. Anyway, I agree with what you are saying, but I don't think it is a "judo" or "BJJ" stylistic philosophy. It's more of a general philosophy. Judo and BJJ can be taught using that style. I've seen judo schools that teach that passive strategy, and I've seen BJJ programs that have a very hard style.

    From what I've seen, it would be hard to tell the difference between a kid's judo and kid's BJJ class. In fact, I think judo and BJJ are the same thing when taught to tots. The only exception is in competition. But there, you're arguing whether freestyle or folkstyle is better for children. I don't think the distinction matters as long as you are teaching them right. Just like the it doesn't matter if they play basketball over soccer, I don't think it makes a difference if they find BJJ or Judo better. As long as they are happy and learning right.
     
  16. Dave Camarillo

    Dave Camarillo White Belt

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  17. Dave Camarillo

    Dave Camarillo White Belt

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    Basketball and soccer both require the student to stand and run. Judo and BJJ are totally different in that respect. You can go your whole career doing 90% ground and 10% standing in JJ. Judo is generally the opposite.

    And at an Elite level I disagree about the philosophy. Grip fighting for example is a knock-out-drag-out battle of broken grips, smashed fingers, and rapid movement. That is almost never seen at an elite level BJJ comp. But is common practice in Olympic Judo.

    And an out of shape JJ'er could win a JJ comp (with technique), not the same for Judo. They are very different in application and philosophy. Even if the wording is similar, the meaning changes when in practice and competition.
     
  18. vince89

    vince89 Banned Banned

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    Good post Dave, I agree.
     
  19. Jimmy Cerra

    Jimmy Cerra Amateur Fighter

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    We're talking about kids not elite Olympians! Anyway, I don't think judo or BJJ should be practiced independently at all, but that's my bias showing there.
     
  20. Dave Camarillo

    Dave Camarillo White Belt

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    I was using that as an extreme example to show that starting with Judo increases a students ability to retroactively learn "pure technique". That being because the student can already move like a well tuned machine.

    This stems from the application of the art.

    Olympians were once kids themselves. They have just reached an elite level because of their focus, which brings us back to the main point.

    I am not against cross-training, I train UFC fighters. For them it is a must. But at an early age, if the question is one or the other, I choose Judo. And thats because of how different it is and the superior base it gives you.
     

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