Training Judo and BJJ

So Dave,

At AKA do you take this philosophy with Guerrilla Jiu Jitsu? eg. Teach the White Belts 80% Judo, 20% BJJ and at later stages change this percentage ? .. or am I way off base using percentage :redface:
 
And an out of shape JJ'er could win a JJ comp (with technique), not the same for Judo. They are very different in application and philosophy. Even if the wording is similar, the meaning changes when in practice and competition.

Just give us the name of an out of shape JJ'er that could win a JJ comp of any international standards.

If your judo is all about power and no techniques. It might not be the opinion of all Judokas around the world.

You assume that all BJJ schools are all about techniques and no power.

Maybe you just have not have heard of Carlson Gracie JJ?
 
^ he's not saying judo is all about power and not technique. That is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Judo with all power and no technique? Damn man, technique is everything. I think dave is just saying how inherently most judo clubs will teach you "powerful technique" as opposed to "pure technique." Ie technique with power, as opposed to no power only technique. Judo helps you combine the two, where as supposedly he said that bjj clubs that stress the pure technique bit is taken a bit too literally, and the people have trouble using power when necessary, always looking for ways around problems . Or I could be completely wrong... :p.

Imo it really depends on the bjj club you go to. Not all clubs are like the way dave said, however I solemnly believe that 80-90 percent of ALL judo clubs will stress the importance of physical power/fitness along with technique. Judo will just give you overall work ethic and power, not neglecting the deep importance of technique. I think judo is a good base in terms of understanding the balance between power and technique.
 
not to hijack your thread, but does anyone who x-trains judo/bjj feel really average?

I mean when I go to judo, people there say I'm really good on the ground. But I suck in bjj.

Then the opposite is true. I go to bjj and they look at me as the wrestler/judoka. I do very well standing, but not so much on the ground.

Even my dad who's a Judo sensei says that I need to show him more of the ground game, but reminds me that my balance always sucked and that my bread n butter should be the ground.

Ah... relativity, you pop up everywhere.
 
I say hit both. At this stage if your Judo club doesn't spend much time on Newaza (tragic!), no big deal, you have BJJ for that. I think using one to compliment the other is a great way to improve both of your games.

Of course I say this a wrestler turned Judoka. The wrestling gave me the intensity and phenominal pins, the Judo gave me technique. I had to learn about subs the hard way though:

(during Newaza randori)
Coach: "Tom"
Me: "Yes coach"
Coach: "There's chokes in Judo"
Me: "Wha...::cack::..::cough::...::tap, tap, tap, taptaptaptap::"


Classic!
 
Just give us the name of an out of shape JJ'er that could win a JJ comp of any international standards.

If your judo is all about power and no techniques. It might not be the opinion of all Judokas around the world.

You assume that all BJJ schools are all about techniques and no power.

Maybe you just have not have heard of Carlson Gracie JJ?

Dave C. already said he is NOT speaking from an Advanced point of view. He's saying in GENERAL that's how the philosophies of BJJ and Judo differ at an elementary level. You are taking statements way out of context and quite frankly, if you did some reserach ad read some published work from Dave Camarillo, you probably wouldn't have made the post you just did.

Also, if BJJ uses th analogy of solving problems by finding a way around it, Judo would solve a problem by going over it, or through it. And in life in general, both are good skills to have. But if you learn how to go around problems first, it's harder to develop guts, courage, and the will to go through or over lifes problems later. It's better to have toughness instilled at an early age, and Judo will defnately make you a tough person if you start it young. Then you can learn how to solve problems unconventionaly.
 
I was using that as an extreme example to show that starting with Judo increases a students ability to retroactively learn "pure technique". That being because the student can already move like a well tuned machine.

This stems from the application of the art.

Olympians were once kids themselves. They have just reached an elite level because of their focus, which brings us back to the main point.

I am not against cross-training, I train UFC fighters. For them it is a must. But at an early age, if the question is one or the other, I choose Judo. And thats because of how different it is and the superior base it gives you.

I'm really happy that this is the point of view of such an affluent judoka/bjjer. I actually started really young in Judo and then transitioned to wrestling. Only now I'm learning the finer points in bjj. Not surprising, the balance, movements, and base knowledge monumentally helps in allowing me to pick up new techniques and finer points really quickly.

I also agree about starting kids in Judo rather than bjj, but perhaps for a completely different reason. I feel kids will be kids and I don't want to be responsible for another kid with a broken arm because of the bjj techniques taught. I know Judo teaches these things too, but our club only starts teaching submissions to high schoolers.
 
I'm really happy that this is the point of view of such an affluent judoka/bjjer. I actually started really young in Judo and then transitioned to wrestling. Only now I'm learning the finer points in bjj. Not surprising, the balance, movements, and base knowledge monumentally helps in allowing me to pick up new techniques and finer points really quickly.

I also agree about starting kids in Judo rather than bjj, but perhaps for a completely different reason. I feel kids will be kids and I don't want to be responsible for another kid with a broken arm because of the bjj techniques taught. I know Judo teaches these things too, but our club only starts teaching submissions to high schoolers.

Plus it's fun when you're a kid trying to toss other kids around :icon_chee
 
I got my purple in BJJ first, then trained Judo and in less than 6 months got my brown belt in Judo
 
I would think it depends on how many hours you can spend training each week. I think if you can only train 3 times a week i would stick to maybe just on art for 6-12 months and then consider doing abit of another, but if you can train 3 or more times a week i would be considering doing both!
 
lechien

You are making an assumption there. I never said most of the things you are claiming I am saying.

And when I talk about an out of shape JJ'er, I have seen them time and time again focus more on technique than conditioning. And there is a MAJOR difference between Judo and Jiu-Jitsu training at the world level in terms of conditioning. I cannot stress this enough. And this makes perfect sense. Why? This is because their focus is different. They are different arts.

In the context of which to choose first, attribute building is more important than technique at an early age. Does this mean I am saying Judo is not technical? Far from it, I am simply making a pretty clear argument.

As white belt, in JJ class, I was finishing almost everyone I faced, blues and whites (that
 
Also, if BJJ uses th analogy of solving problems by finding a way around it, Judo would solve a problem by going over it, or through it. And in life in general, both are good skills to have. But if you learn how to go around problems first, it's harder to develop guts, courage, and the will to go through or over lifes problems later. It's better to have toughness instilled at an early age, and Judo will defnately make you a tough person if you start it young. Then you can learn how to solve problems unconventionaly.

Could not have said it better myself. And that is a major point of my next book. I lived it early on and see the remarkable advantage I had over many. Judo gave me what I needed to handle the fighters at AKA. Without leading by example I would not be nearly as effective of a coach than I am now.

It is hard for a fighter to figure out that the positioning I am showing works, unless I nail it on them over and over.
 
So Dave,

At AKA do you take this philosophy with Guerrilla Jiu Jitsu? eg. Teach the White Belts 80% Judo, 20% BJJ and at later stages change this percentage ? .. or am I way off base using percentage :redface:

I have Judo classes, where we only use the rules of Judo. I have JJ classes in which we only specialize our technique surrounding the rules of JJ. And I mesh them together in my Guerrilla Jiu-JItsu class.

Furthermore: I teach much more JJ than Judo. This is because Judo is much rougher then JJ. If I taught 80% Judo and 20% JJ, I would lose people.

But this makes sense, as I get older, JJ is much more attractive. I would rather spar with John Fitch or Josh Thomson, than do a full practice at SJSU. Yes, Judo is even harder than MMA, at an elite level...
 
Both judo and BJJ can teach courage and conditioning. It is the teacher who determines it, not the arts themselves.
 
Try using bjj and working from you're back in a street fight. It's a sure fire way to get you're ass kicked.
 
@ Dave Camarillo

First off, thank you for contributing here, it's an honor.

I find your view point very interesting and must say I agree from the experience I have had with Judoka coming in to BJJ class.

They are far more agressive and once they dropped some habits that can be exploited by a decent BJJer and have gotten used to the guard game more, they become very tough customers.

It is essential though that they try to do BJJ when in BJJ class, not Judo Newaza to really progress.

I also agree that the BJJ philosophy, which I back 100% as a long-term goal, can in the short-term lead to the lazy-guard-player-syndrom.

If you really wnat to be a good BJJer, you will have to develop a more aggressive approach somewhere along the line.

As I see Judo and BJJ as perfect compliments to each other, I am eager to pick it up to help in that aspect. At age 28, after 3 years doing BJJ.

Is there any advice you could give other than

1) Practice Ukemi

2) When in Judo do as the Judokas

3) Have a good health insurance?

Thanks agian for you time


B
 
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