Top catch-as-catch-can/shoot-wrestling practicioners...?

[grdstorm11]

Man... people who are really for catch wrestling will claim anyone with a 1% relationship with catch.

As far as higher level players, I don't think there are a handful of fighters out there than can claim their grappling game to be mainly catch. I would challenge anyone to PROVE that someone out there who is still relevant (or even relevant in the past 10 years) is more tha 50% a catch guy.

It seems we are making connections through fighters who trained under trainer C who was coached by coach B that was somehow connected to catch wrestler A.

 

[Masakatsu Funaki #1]

TK is deffinately a Judo guy. He came from a major University. He is a 4th degree black belt and he trains with Yoshida.

Okay, I give up.

TK has no catch lineage at all.

The only martial art TK has lineage to is Judo.

Happy?

**Edit** Also, thank you for your wealth of wikipedia research. I mean...having a huge collection of RINGS tapes with various clips and documentaries of TK and co (Yoshihisa Yamamoto, Watura Sakata, Mitsuya Nagai, etc) training proves nothing obviously.

 

[Masakatsu Funaki #1]

Man... people who are really for catch wrestling will claim anyone with a 1% relationship with catch.

As far as higher level players, I don't think there are a handful of fighters out there than can claim their grappling game to be mainly catch. I would challenge anyone to PROVE that someone out there who is still relevant (or even relevant in the past 10 years) is more tha 50% a catch guy.

It seems we are making connections through fighters who trained under trainer C who was coached by coach B that was somehow connected to catch wrestler A.

Josh Barnett

 

[_Glorfindel_]

Man... people who are really for catch wrestling will claim anyone with a 1% relationship with catch.

As far as higher level players, I don't think there are a handful of fighters out there than can claim their grappling game to be mainly catch. I would challenge anyone to PROVE that someone out there who is still relevant (or even relevant in the past 10 years) is more tha 50% a catch guy.

It seems we are making connections through fighters who trained under trainer C who was coached by coach B that was somehow connected to catch wrestler A.

Easy i will give you two if you want. Barnett and Fujita i can give you some more, but you only asked for one.

What's my prize is?
Or maybe just stop making uneducate statement.

 

[Ryo]

Okay, I give up.

TK has no catch lineage at all.

The only martial art TK has lineage to is Judo.

Happy?

**Edit** Also, thank you for your wealth of wikipedia research. I mean...having a huge collection of RINGS tapes with various clips and documentaries of TK and co (Yoshihisa Yamamoto, Watura Sakata, Mitsuya Nagai, etc) training proves nothing obviously.

Boy you realy seem buthurt about something. I didn't get that from Wikipedia. I got that from the fact that I follow Judo and MMA pretty closely and keep up with the players that fight. I aslo happen to be a TK fan. So I know a little bit about him.

Did I say he didn't have a Catch Lineage? No. He may have trained under a Catch guy at one point? So what? This is MMA. Judo is his main style. I bet if you asked the man, he would tell you the same thing. He mainly trains with Judo guys.

 

[Masakatsu Funaki #1]

Boy you realy seem buthurt about something. I didn't get that from Wikipedia. I got that from the fact that I follow Judo and MMA pretty closely and keep up with the players that fight. I aslo happen to be a TK fan. So I know a little bit about him.

Did I say he didn't have a Catch Lineage? No. He may have trained under a Catch guy at one point? So what? This is MMA. Judo is his main style. I bet if you asked the man, he would tell you the same thing. He mainly trains with Judo guys.

I was neve doubting that TK's base wasn't Judo. I know that for fact.

We can both agree (being huge fans) that TK is a superb athlete/grappler/fighter/pro-wrestler.

 

[Kforcer]

Boy you realy seem buthurt about something. I didn't get that from Wikipedia. I got that from the fact that I follow Judo and MMA pretty closely and keep up with the players that fight. I aslo happen to be a TK fan. So I know a little bit about him.

Did I say he didn't have a Catch Lineage? No. He may have trained under a Catch guy at one point? So what? This is MMA. Judo is his main style. I bet if you asked the man, he would tell you the same thing. He mainly trains with Judo guys.

Kiyoshi Tamura, Kaoru Uno and Frank Shamrock are not judo guys. And TK's myriad leg-lock entrances don't come from judo.

 

[Kforcer]

Man... people who are really for catch wrestling will claim anyone with a 1% relationship with catch.

As far as higher level players, I don't think there are a handful of fighters out there than can claim their grappling game to be mainly catch. I would challenge anyone to PROVE that someone out there who is still relevant (or even relevant in the past 10 years) is more tha 50% a catch guy.

It seems we are making connections through fighters who trained under trainer C who was coached by coach B that was somehow connected to catch wrestler A.

Your facts are mixed up.

Satoru Kitaoka is LITERALLY a catch-wrestling champion, as in, he competed in and won a competition which was called CATCH WRESTLING and put on by PANCRASE. Combat Wrestling champ and ADCC trials champ Katsuya Toida's rashguard literally says "CATCH AS CATCH CAN." The current 132 pound Pancrase world champion, Manabu Inoue, trains out of the UWF Snake Pit, named for the Wigan Snake Pit and run by Billy Robinson.

But generally, in Japan, pro-wrestling means "catch wrestling." When Imanari, in his instructional, says that he got his leg-locks from professional wrestling or when Sakuraba says, "In fact, professional wrestling is strong" that's what they're talking about.

And because of the impact guys like Kiyoshi Tamura, Minoru Suzuki and Kazushi Sakuraba had on grappling and MMA, especially in Japan, obviously their influence is always going to be there.

 

[Masakatsu Funaki #1]

Your facts are mixed up.

Satoru Kitaoka is LITERALLY a catch-wrestling champion, as in, he competed in and won a competition which was called CATCH WRESTLING and put on by PANCRASE. Combat Wrestling champ and ADCC trials champ Katsuya Toida's rashguard literally says "CATCH AS CATCH CAN." The current 132 pound Pancrase world champion, Manabu Inoue, trains out of the UWF Snake Pit, named for the Wigan Snake Pit and run by Billy Robinson.

But generally, in Japan, pro-wrestling means "catch wrestling." When Imanari, in his instructional, says that he got his leg-locks from professional wrestling or when Sakuraba says, "In fact, professional wrestling is strong" that's what they're talking about.

And because of the impact guys like Kiyoshi Tamura, Minoru Suzuki and Kazushi Sakuraba had on grappling and MMA, especially in Japan, obviously their influence is always going to be there.

Great post Kforcer.

 

[BruceLeeMMA]

Kiyoshi Tamura, Kaoru Uno and Frank Shamrock are not judo guys. And TK's myriad leg-lock entrances don't come from judo.

TK's a judo guy.

Don Frye has a blackbelt in Judo but I don't think anyone would consider him a Judo Guy. He's an NCAA Wrestler.

****

I think Uno is a Judo guy since he comes from Wayjitsu Kaikesuke, whose head grappling guy is Yoshinori Nishi (student of Kimura)

 

[Kforcer]

TK's a judo guy.

Don Frye has a blackbelt in Judo but I don't think anyone would consider him a Judo Guy. He's an NCAA Wrestler.

****

I think Uno is a Judo guy since he comes from Wayjitsu Kaikesuke, whose head grappling guy is Yoshinori Nishi (student of Kimura)

No, Uno is not a judo guy. He was a former amateur wrestler who was going to compete in Pancrase but was deemed too small. He's heavily influenced by professional wrestling and has competed in it several times.

You can say TK is a judo guy all you want. But as MF#1 and I have already evidenced, that doesn't tell the whole story.

Don Fyre is not analogous because in TK's case, his leg-locks are one of his staples and that is clearly not something he got from the judo portion of his background. In Frye's case, his judo skill-set isn't something that is one of his staples.

TK is one of the most legendary shoot-style professional wrestlers there has been. It's a part of who he is; TK vs Tamura might be one of the best best professional wrestling match ever. In some people's minds, it is.

 

[grdstorm11]

Sorry guys, I am totally unconvinced. There is not enough catch out there for people to claim it as a style anymore, and I don't mean any derivatives of catch.

We don't call BJJ, Judo.

 

[BruceLeeMMA]

Sorry guys, I am totally unconvinced. There is not enough catch out there for people to claim it as a style anymore, and I don't mean any derivatives of catch.

We don't call BJJ, Judo.

Grdstorm,

I would actually disagree with that.

Karl Gotch and Billy Robinson (both learned from Billy Riley in the Snake Pit in Wigan, England) lived and trained wrestlers in the Catch Wrestling Style in Japan. So basically all the Japanese Pro Wrestlers learned the Catch Wrestling style.

You may say, Pro Wrestling, big whoop. But Japanse Pro Wrestling was the Strong Style Shoot Pro Wrestling. And they were the ones who broke off into real MMA.

Satoru Sayama (Tiger Mask) started Shooto
Funaki started Pancrase
Takada started Pride
Akira Maeda started Rings

 

[Kforcer]

Sorry guys, I am totally unconvinced. There is not enough catch out there for people to claim it as a style anymore, and I don't mean any derivatives of catch.

We don't call BJJ, Judo.

Like I said, your facts are mixed up. It probably stems from a misunderstanding of what catch-wrestling is in and of itself.

Or from the notion that in order for someone to be considered a catch guy, he has to be trained by an 80-year old white man.

 

[Masakatsu Funaki #1]

Sorry guys, I am totally unconvinced. There is not enough catch out there for people to claim it as a style anymore, and I don't mean any derivatives of catch.

We don't call BJJ, Judo.

Anyone with folkstyle wrestling (or grappling in general) experience can easily learn catch by reading a book or two and drilling certain moves. (DWL, Toe Holds, Face Cranks)

Catch wrestling isn't complex. Its very simple and easy to learn.

Check out some of the free downloads here:

Kirk Lawson's Storefront - Lulu.com

Very fond of Prehn's, "Scientific Methods of Wrestling".

 

[BruceLeeMMA]

Anyone with folkstyle wrestling (or grappling in general) experience can easily learn catch by reading a book or two and drilling certain moves. (DWL, Toe Holds, Face Cranks)

Catch wrestling isn't complex. Its very simple and easy to learn.

Check out some of the free downloads here:

Kirk Lawson's Storefront - Lulu.com

Very fond of Prehn's, "Scientific Methods of Wrestling".

Actually most of NCAA Wrestling has a Catch Wrestling lineage.

In fact there is a direct line from Paul Prehn to Chuck Liddell.

You can see that in the Wrestling Lineage Tree here:
Wrestling Tree

 

[Masakatsu Funaki #1]

Actually most of NCAA Wrestling has a Catch Wrestling lineage.

In fact there is a direct line from Paul Prehn to Chuck Liddell.

You can see that in the Wrestling Lineage Tree here:
Wrestling Tree

Wow, very cool link!

 

[Ryo]

Kiyoshi Tamura, Kaoru Uno and Frank Shamrock are not judo guys. And TK's myriad leg-lock entrances don't come from judo.

Nowadays... when's the last time he trained with Frank Shamrock?

 

[Ryo]

I was neve doubting that TK's base wasn't Judo. I know that for fact.

We can both agree (being huge fans) that TK is a superb athlete/grappler/fighter/pro-wrestler.

Absolutely... he is one the greatest MMA fighters to come out of Japan. His grappling is awesome, I love watching him.

He doesn't get near enough respect in MMA as a whole.

 

[Masakatsu Funaki #1]

Absolutely... he is one the greatest MMA fighters to come out of Japan. His grappling is awesome, I love watching him.

He doesn't get near enough respect in MMA as a whole.

Were are you in NC? You should head to the Greensboro area sometime'