Top 10 Heavyweights ever

[BFoe]

He has Nog above Werdum and Cain....



I have

#1 Fedor
#2 Stipe
#3 Werdum
#4 Cain
#5 JDS
#6 Overeem
#7 MIR
#8 Nog

Well Fedor and Kharitnov had good defense back then as did Cro Cop. Would they get hit? Yeah sometimes but usually not. I just looked at some if his highlights and almost everyone smashed his face up. I am saying Nog would not match up well vs todays HWs.

I value head to head record. You may not but that is your nostalgia speaking. To lose 2x to a guy by being finished cannot logically make you better than them. Imagine if Mir got to face the Ricos, ensons, Valejtin and other cans of the world his record would have more wins

To continue our discussion from last night…

Head to head is not a good way to rank, for several reasons. Fighters can be injured, have a bad camp, be old and declined, or even just be involved in a bad style matchup. For whatever reason, Will Brooks had Chandler’s number. Dennis Hallman had Matt Hughes’ number. Fighters should be judged based on what they accomplished in the division. Against a variety of opponents and styles, against ranked opponents, former champs, title fights, and so forth, over a period of time.
If Ngannou had sent 2011 Ubereem’s head into orbit, that would be a spectacular win. But doing it in late 2017? Doesn’t mean so much.

Lat night I gave you the Joanna/Rose scenario, and you admitted you didn’t know how to rank it. But under my method, that one is actually easy, it’s Joanna no question. Likewise, look at FW. How to rank Volk and Aldo. Or Conor and Aldo. That one’s easy, it’s Aldo #1 followed by Volk #2. A harder question is comparing Conor to Faber actually.

In this HW list, the question I just got about ranking Cro Cop higher than DC is a tough question. Whether to rank Nog above Cain is not a hard question, Nog’s resume is better by a mile.

 

[BFoe]

Slop ass Tuivasa almost knocked his ass out cold. You don't give that guy enough credit lol.

Or perhaps we give Gane too much.

 

[spinup]

It's not a matter of you buying it or not. It is not there for you to buy. It's reality.

If you believe Cain wasn't shot, not out of shape, and didn't have a shit knee, then you are living in a fantasy.

He had no business being in that cage with any heavyweight in the top 15.

And you deducted all that from him getting clipped on the jaw 20s into the fight? Impressive.

 

[BFoe]

And you deducted all that from him getting clipped on the jaw 20s into the fight? Impressive.

No, it should be deduced from this:

Cain injured his rotator cuff against Brock, had it fixed only to totally tear it again right before the JDS loss, then fucked his knee (torn in 2014 before the Werdum fight so that was postponed until 2015). Werdum and Cain were supposed to rematch but Cain got injured again, (back injury requiring surgery) was finally supposed to rematch Werdum in 2016 but couldn’t even get medically cleared to fight, didn’t fight again for almost THREE YEARS, whereupon we have the Ngannou fight. Clipped early and blew knee out again.
That fight is totally worthless. I literally give it no significance at all.

 

[Kyojiro Kagenuma]

Or perhaps we give Gane too much.

No Ganes pretty good

 

[Kyojiro Kagenuma]

Or perhaps we give Gane too much.

You can call Tuivasa sloppy, but he makes fights dirty and it works.

 

[markys00]

Fedor
Fedor
Fedor
Fedor
Fedor
Fedor
Fedor
Fedor
Fedor
Fedor

 

[Blayt7hh]

Well there’s no argument over #1. That’s easily Fedor.

2is interesting though. I could see it being either Stipe or Werdum. Stipe had the longer reign but Werdums ledger is full of great names.

I love love love Big Nog, but I can’t put him ahead of Werdum or Stipe.

 

[Kyojiro Kagenuma]

Well there’s no argument over #1. That’s easily Fedor.

2is interesting though. I could see it being either Stipe or Werdum. Stipe had the longer reign but Werdums ledger is full of great names.

I love love love Big Nog, but I can’t put him ahead of Werdum or Stipe.

2 is definitely Stipe imo.

 

[Kyojiro Kagenuma]

My list:

1.Fedor
2.Stipe
3.Nog
4.Werdum
5.Dos Santos
6.Cain
7.Cro Cop
8.Arlovski
9.Overeem
10. Mir

@BFoe thoughts?

Not sure who would win out my ten spot.

 

[BFoe]

No Ganes pretty good

Is like to think so. But we don’t really have much to judge him on. At this point, his resume doesn’t match most of our beliefs or expectations. Time will tell if he’s an all time great, or a Todd Duffee/Brandon Vera. MMA history is littered with fighters that we thought would be amazing and then flamed out. His striking is quite good, but his wrestling is suspect and ground game is virtually nonexistent. I think he has great potential though. I think the same of Aspinall, but it’s important to judge based on what fighters have done, and not our perceptions of what they will or could do.

You can call Tuivasa sloppy, but he makes fights dirty and it works.

Sure, but that doesn’t mean I have to accept him as an elite, top ranked fighter. Maybe I’m wrong—it has happened before lol—but if he hadn’t been matched up with the also-sloppy (and declining) Lewis, I have serious doubts about whether Tai would ever have been able to be ranked so highly. I like watching him fight though. Lewis too.

 

[MartinGibson86]

It gets really rough around #s 8-10. But something like

1. Fedor
2. Stipe
3. Nog
4. Werdum
5. JDS
6. Cain
7. Overeem
8. Mirko
9. Arlovski?
10. Couture? Barnett? Cormier?

Seriously? Reem, Mirko , AA all ahead of DC and Francis?


Thats comical.


Nostalgias a hell of a drug

 

[Kyojiro Kagenuma]

Is like to think so. But we don’t really have much to judge him on. At this point, his resume doesn’t match most of our beliefs or expectations. Time will tell if he’s an all time great, or a Todd Duffee/Brandon Vera. MMA history is littered with fighters that we thought would be amazing and then flamed out. His striking is quite good, but his wrestling is suspect and ground game is virtually nonexistent. I think he has great potential though. I think the same of Aspinall, but it’s important to judge based on what fighters have done, and not our perceptions of what they will or could do.

Sure, but that doesn’t mean I have to accept him as an elite, top ranked fighter. Maybe I’m wrong—it has happened before lol—but if he hadn’t been matched up with the also-sloppy (and declining) Lewis, I have serious doubts about whether Tai would ever have been able to be ranked so highly. I like watching him fight though. Lewis too.

I think Tai can win against most of the top ten rn. Gane was literally his worst matchup, except Blaydes maybe.

 

[BFoe]

My list:

1.Fedor
2.Stipe
3.Nog
4.Werdum
5.Dos Santos
6.Cain
7.Cro Cop
8.Arlovski
9.Overeem
10. Mir

@BFoe thoughts?

Not sure who would win out my ten spot.

I actually like this list, and don’t have any real issues with it. I also find it tough to rank #8-10. If I’m being picky, I think I’d put Reem over Arlovski, but I also understand that Arlovski’s title run is better than what Reem achieved. Good list!

 

[MartinGibson86]

My list:

1.Fedor
2.Stipe
3.Nog
4.Werdum
5.Dos Santos
6.Cain
7.Cro Cop
8.Arlovski
9.Overeem
10. Mir

@BFoe thoughts?

Not sure who would win out my ten spot.

Again


How can 7 through 10 POSSIBLY be ahead of Francis or DC???



You can cut the nostalgia with a knife atound here.

 

[Kyojiro Kagenuma]

Seriously? Reem, Mirko , AA all ahead of DC and Francis?


Thats comical.


Nostalgias a hell of a drug

DC is fantastic but he didn’t spend enough time in heavyweight for me to put him in heavyweight top 10.

He's in my all time top 10 tho.

Francis isn't there yet lol. Arlovski has had a legendary career, had two title defenses, (interim and undisputed) and has the most ufc heavyweight wins.

I fail to see what Ngannou has accomplished over Arlovski and Reem.

 

[Kyojiro Kagenuma]

Again


How can 7 through 10 POSSIBLY be ahead of Francis or DC???



You can cut the nostalgia with a knife atound here.

No, you're suffering from recency bias. I have no nostalgia. I came in way after these guys were in their prime.

 

[Brazilian007]

To continue our discussion from last night…

Head to head is not a good way to rank, for several reasons. Fighters can be injured, have a bad camp, be old and declined, or even just be involved in a bad style matchup. For whatever reason, Will Brooks had Chandler’s number. Dennis Hallman had Matt Hughes’ number. Fighters should be judged based on what they accomplished in the division. Against a variety of opponents and styles, against ranked opponents, former champs, title fights, and so forth, over a period of time.
If Ngannou had sent 2011 Ubereem’s head into orbit, that would be a spectacular win. But doing it in late 2017? Doesn’t mean so much.

Lat night I gave you the Joanna/Rose scenario, and you admitted you didn’t know how to rank it. But under my method, that one is actually easy, it’s Joanna no question. Likewise, look at FW. How to rank Volk and Aldo. Or Conor and Aldo. That one’s easy, it’s Aldo #1 followed by Volk #2. A harder question is comparing Conor to Faber actually.

In this HW list, the question I just got about ranking Cro Cop higher than DC is a tough question. Whether to rank Nog above Cain is not a hard question, Nog’s resume is better by a mile.

For sure my top 4 dont change

#1 Fedor
# 2 Stipe
# 3 Werdum
# 4 Cain

After that it gets funny. Ngannou should be top 10 he beat everyone just about. And JDS has an impressive list only losing to Cain and Overeem.

You have to value head to head it is the most logical and people do it in team sports and in championships. War and battles are also valued on head to head as are chess champs. It is literally nonsensical and doing some 4d chess cope to argue that going 0 and 2 or 0 and 3 vs an opponent somehow doesnt matter.

Barnett career work is more impressive than Cro Cop but Cro Cop beat Barnett 3x. What are the chances each time Barnett was injured and that somehow Cro Cop had no injuries? Extremely slim and is still an excuse. Cro Cop is a better HW than Barnett and while Barnett has more top 10 wins the fact Cro Cop owned Barnett 3x should mean Cro Cop is superior to Barnett

 

[Blayt7hh]

2 is definitely Stipe imo.

Like I said I can see it either. Stipe won more consistently and he does have some good names. My opinion is that he reigned over an aging division and didn’t face the same level of competition. That plus Werdum just has a larger variety of opponents and a bunch of good names on his resume

 

[Brazilian007]

DC is fantastic but he didn’t spend enough time in heavyweight for me to put him in heavyweight top 10.

He's in my all time top 10 tho.

Francis isn't there yet lol. Arlovski has had a legendary career, had two title defenses, (interim and undisputed) and has the most ufc heavyweight wins.

I fail to see what Ngannou has accomplished over Arlovski and Reem.

Ngannou beat both of them by KO and is the champion and never can crushed since he entered the UFC. Ngannou has also defended the belt and beat much better well rounded fighters to become HW champion than Arlovski ever did.