Top 10 Heavyweights ever

[DayV]

And how Mirko can be top10 and in front of DC? Ridiculous. Even Gane has arguably a better resume than CroCop

Don't be ridiculous. Gagne has only 5 good wins in career, Cormier has 7-8 at HW, while Cro Cop has 17-19 good HW wins.

Gagne: JDS, Rozenstruik, Volkov, Lewis, Tuivasa

Cormier: Stipe, Mir, Barnett, Tony Johnson, Nelson, Lewis, Bigfoot, Monson

Cro Cop: Barnett 3x, Fujita 2x, Wanderlei, Herring, Alex Eemelianenko, Vovchanchyn, Coleman, Randleman, Nelson, Gonzaga, Sakuraba, Yoshida, Waterman, King Mo, + Magomedov, Aliakbari, Ishii

Here is another good and objective list considering good wins of ATG HW's:
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/tck-star-rating-system-the-heavyweights.4106864/

Cro Cop has a lot bigger body of work than modern fighters.

 

[spinup]

Cause Ngannou beat them all when they were senior citizens.

JDS was 35 and coming of a winning streak over Ivanov, Lewis and Tuivasa (last two by absolute demolition).
Cain was 36 with 16 mma fights, that's nothing. He ran into an uppercut, and he would have run into the same uppercut at his peak. Cain was a -200 betting favourite against Ngannou.
Overeem was 36 , coming of a title shot. He had very good wins after that (Pavlovich, Harris, Sakai, Oleinik). I don't see how he would have done differently in his prime (horsemeat aside).
None of them were washed up, people called them washed up once they got beaten by Ngannou.

Blaydes, Gane and Rozenstruik, were all dangerous opponents in their primes. All undefeated at the time he faced them (except Blaydes for the rematch of course).

 

[SG123]

1) Fedor
2) Nog

The rest

 

[GOATtalks]

1. Stipe
2. Ngannou
3. Fedor
4. DC
5. Werdum
6. Cain
7. JDS
8. Nog
9. Gane
10. Randy

 

[GOATtalks]

Cause Ngannou beat them all when they were senior citizens.

They weren’t though. He beat them when they were the champ or in top5. Only Cain is an exception

 

[Deleted member 504083]

1. Stipe
2. Ngannou
3. Fedor
4. DC
5. Werdum
6. Cain
7. JDS
8. Nog
9. Gane
10. Randy

Ngannou only KOs relics with his 2 rounds of KO power, and Blaydes before his striking slightly improved.

Gane gets ragdolled by anybody with a tad of wrestling.

 

[Deleted member 504083]

They weren’t though. He beat them when they were the champ or in top5. Only Cain is an exception

Derrick Lewis beat Ngannou when Ngannou was ranked #1. Lewis > Ngannou and Blaydes

#1 ranked Ngannou in his prime couldn't beat a non washed Stipe.

 

[Okajima]

1. Fedor

1) Fedor
2) Nog

The rest

Correct.

 

[Kyojiro Kagenuma]

JDS was 35 and coming of a winning streak over Ivanov, Lewis and Tuivasa (last two by absolute demolition).
Cain was 36 with 16 mma fights, that's nothing. He ran into an uppercut, and he would have run into the same uppercut at his peak. Cain was a -200 betting favourite against Ngannou.
Overeem was 36 , coming of a title shot. He had very good wins after that (Pavlovich, Harris, Sakai, Oleinik). I don't see how he would have done differently in his prime (horsemeat aside).
None of them were washed up, people called them washed up once they got beaten by Ngannou.

Blaydes, Gane and Rozenstruik, were all dangerous opponents in their primes. All undefeated at the time he faced them (except Blaydes for the rematch of course).

Cain was a fucking cripple. Context matters dude. He was plagued by injuries and retired right afterwards. If you think he was physically prepared for that fight, then you've shown you know nothing and are very uneducated, and I shouldn’t even be bothering. He was a -200 favorite because we weren't privy to the extent of his injuries coming into the fight and the extent of his injuries. Afterwards, we all realized he had no business being in that cage.

But let's go over this.

Cain (Total Cripple, means almost nothing to me. Totally washed up)
Overeem (Decent Win, but still years past his peak)
Dos Santos (Not totally washed, but well on his way to be)
Arlovski (He suffered 3 consecutive tkos before he even faced Ngannou. He was at the tail end of his career resurgence. Washed)

All these fighters were at the end of long and storied careers. Beating them when he did means a lot less than Beating them in their prime.

His best wins are, as you said, Rozenstruik, Gane, Blaydes and Stipe, cause these guys were actually at the top of their game or close to it when he beat them.

 

[Kyojiro Kagenuma]

They weren’t though. He beat them when they were the champ or in top5. Only Cain is an exception

Arlovski wasn't in the top 5 when Ngannou creamed him at all, and JDS and Overeem were far past their primes. They were still relevant because that's how weak the heavyweight division was and still is.

 

[Kyojiro Kagenuma]

Fedor
Minotauro
Stipe
Werdum
Mirko
Barnett
Cain
JDS
Francis
Reem
DC
Sergei
Randy

More than 10 but I think those have been the true "greats" so far

then after you have the likes of Sylvia, Ricco, Hunt, Murr, Arlovski, Herring, Rizzo, Bigfoot, Semmy, Minakov, Igor, Gane, Blaydes, Coleman, Randleman, Fujita, Bork, Carwin, Aleks, Goodridge, Lewis, Gonzaga, Rothwell, Roy, Kongo, Volkov, Yvel etc

Dunno how you can put Sergei ahead of Arlovski and Mir honestly

 

[BFoe]

Lol, Ngannou beat 5 fighters from your top10 list, yet he doesn’t deserve a spot. You’re biased af.

You already know my answer.
The fighters on my list have the best overall bodies of work at HW ever. For Ngannou to take their spot, his body of work must be greater. Allowing JDS or Cain to leave the Old Folks Home for the day to wheel them to the cage to get shellacked by Ngannou (or anyone) does not negate that. He doesn’t get to skip the hard work of building a top resume, and just steal someone’s spot by KOing an old, washed up version.
Beating Arlovski and Overeem in 2017, or JDS and Cain (!!) in 2019, means literally next to nothing. I don’t see any way that Ngannou is higher than #14 or so.

And how Mirko can be top10 and in front of DC? Ridiculous. Even Gane has arguably a better resume than CroCop

Just stop with Gane’s resume <45>
He’s got shot JDS (he fought him even after Ngannou lol), Rozenstruik (didn’t you literally just say the other day that he wasn’t very good?), Volkov (good win), and slop-ass Lewis and Tuivasa. He didn’t even fight a good version of Lewis. I like Gane a lot, but it’s mostly based on eye test (how he looks in the cage). His resume is practically nonexistent. Brock’s resume is arguably better. Sylvia’s resume is better.

—I’m open to the idea that Cro Cop is too high. I’m open to the idea that DC should maybe make the list (I think I’ve even done this list before with DC at #10, but later reconsidered). Let’s check it out.

MIRKO’S WINS: Fujita x2, Herring, Igor, Aleks Emelianenko, Randleman, Barnett x3, Coleman, Gonzaga, Nelson, plus an assortment like Ishii x2, Barry, Sanchez, Al-Turk and so forth.
TITLES WON: PRIDE OW GP, IGF title FWIW with one defense.

CORMIER’S WINS: Monson, Bigfoot, Barnett, Mir, Nelson, Stipe, Lewis. Plus Palelei, Cole, and Dion Staring.
TITLES WON: Strikeforce HW GP, UFC HW with 1 defense.

I don’t have a super-strong opinion, but I kinda think Mirko edges him out. Cormier has the better title accolades overall but not as good or vast of an overall resume.

When I rank the Top 10 fighters all time (any weight class), Cormier makes that list and Cro Cop doesn’t. But Cormier suffers a bit in my divisional rankings by splitting time between weight classes.

 

[BFoe]

1. Stipe
2. Ngannou
3. Fedor
4. DC
5. Werdum
6. Cain
7. JDS
8. Nog
9. Gane
10. Randy

Oh my fuck, I just saw this. Listing Ngannou as the #2 HW in the history of the sport should be a bannable offense. Holy Jesus Christ. And Gane at #9 wtf..
JDS at #7…goodness.

 

[Brazilian007]

Lol, Ngannou beat 5 fighters from your top10 list, yet he doesn’t deserve a spot. You’re biased af.

And how Mirko can be top10 and in front of DC? Ridiculous. Even Gane has arguably a better resume than CroCop

He has Nog above Werdum and Cain....

I am not gonna get into Nog's skill set too much, but he had a phenomenal skill set and his boxing was very good. You brought up the point his defense isn't great, well, name one HW that did have great defense. You can't, everyone gets hit. Nog's defense wasn't any worse than Cain, JDS, Stipe, Barnett, etc etc. And Nog's defense was far better than Mirs.

Here is the problem with putting Mir over Nog. Unless you are completely bias against Nog, he is a top 2-4 HW. He can't be higher than #2 and you can't place him lower than #4, the only guys you can please above him are Fedor, Stipe, and Werdum. LIke I said, there is not one reasonable argument to not have Nog lower than #4. Considering this, there is no way in hell Frank Mir is a top 5 all time HW. Even if you are stubborn and place Cain or JDS over Big Nog, he is still #5 all time. Once again, there is no way Frank Mir is a top 5 all time HW. So there goes any argument of having Mir over Nog. His wins alone wont do it.

Nog just has so much more over Mir. Titles, wins, win streak, top 5 and top 10 wins, being a top 5 HW much longer. There is not one reasonable argument to have Mir over Nog all time.

I have

#1 Fedor
#2 Stipe
#3 Werdum
#4 Cain
#5 JDS
#6 Overeem
#7 MIR
#8 Nog

Well Fedor and Kharitnov had good defense back then as did Cro Cop. Would they get hit? Yeah sometimes but usually not. I just looked at some if his highlights and almost everyone smashed his face up. I am saying Nog would not match up well vs todays HWs.

I value head to head record. You may not but that is your nostalgia speaking. To lose 2x to a guy by being finished cannot logically make you better than them. Imagine if Mir got to face the Ricos, ensons, Valejtin and other cans of the world his record would have more wins

 

[Kyojiro Kagenuma]

You already know my answer.
The fighters on my list have the best overall bodies of work at HW ever. For Ngannou to take their spot, his body of work must be greater. Allowing JDS or Cain to leave the Old Folks Home for the day to wheel them to the cage to get shellacked by Ngannou (or anyone) does not negate that. He doesn’t get to skip the hard work of building a top resume, and just steal someone’s spot by KOing an old, washed up version.
Beating Arlovski and Overeem in 2017, or JDS and Cain (!!) in 2019, means literally next to nothing. I don’t see any way that Ngannou is higher than #14 or so.

Just stop with Gane’s resume <45>
He’s got shot JDS (he fought him even after Ngannou lol), Rozenstruik (didn’t you literally just say the other day that he wasn’t very good?), Volkov (good win), and slop-ass Lewis and Tuivasa. He didn’t even fight a good version of Lewis. I like Gane a lot, but it’s mostly based on eye test (how he looks in the cage). His resume is practically nonexistent. Brock’s resume is arguably better. Sylvia’s resume is better.

—I’m open to the idea that Cro Cop is too high. I’m open to the idea that DC should maybe make the list (I think I’ve even done this list before with DC at #10, but later reconsidered). Let’s check it out.

MIRKO’S WINS: Fujita x2, Herring, Igor, Aleks Emelianenko, Randleman, Barnett x3, Coleman, Gonzaga, Nelson, plus an assortment like Ishii x2, Barry, Sanchez, Al-Turk and so forth.
TITLES WON: PRIDE OW GP, IGF title FWIW with one defense.

CORMIER’S WINS: Monson, Bigfoot, Barnett, Mir, Nelson, Stipe, Lewis. Plus Palelei, Cole, and Dion Staring.
TITLES WON: Strikeforce HW GP, UFC HW with 1 defense.

I don’t have a super-strong opinion, but I kinda think Mirko edges him out. Cormier has the better title accolades overall but not as good or vast of an overall resume.

When I rank the Top 10 fighters all time (any weight class), Cormier makes that list and Cro Cop doesn’t. But Cormier suffers a bit in my divisional rankings by splitting time between weight classes.

Slop ass Tuivasa almost knocked his ass out cold. You don't give that guy enough credit lol.

 

[Dont troll me]

1. Fedor





2. Stipe
3. Ngannou
4. Cain
5. JDS
6. Werdum
7. Nog
8. Mir
9. Barnett
10. Arlovski

Nope. Fighting cans does not make you better than the rest. Big Fedor fan but we can all see his run.

 

[spinup]

Cain was a fucking cripple. Context matters dude. He was plagued by injuries and retired right afterwards. If you think he was physically prepared for that fight, then you've shown you know nothing and are very uneducated, and I shouldn’t even be bothering. He was a -200 favorite because we weren't privy to the extent of his injuries coming into the fight and the extent of his injuries. Afterwards, we all realized he had no business being in that cage.

That makes absolutely zero sense.
So no one could know before the fight that he was a cripple, but him getting clipped on the jaw during a TD attempt 20seconds into the fight suddenly makes it obvious?

No, sorry, I don't buy that and nobody should.

 

[Kyojiro Kagenuma]

That makes absolutely zero sense.
So no one could know before the fight that he was a cripple, but him getting clipped on the jaw during a TD attempt 20seconds into the fight suddenly makes it obvious?

No, sorry, I don't buy that and nobody should.

It's not a matter of you buying it or not. It is not there for you to buy. It's reality.

If you believe Cain wasn't shot, not out of shape, and didn't have a shit knee, then you are living in a fantasy.

He had no business being in that cage with any heavyweight in the top 15.

 

[Kyojiro Kagenuma]

That makes absolutely zero sense.
So no one could know before the fight that he was a cripple, but him getting clipped on the jaw during a TD attempt 20seconds into the fight suddenly makes it obvious?

No, sorry, I don't buy that and nobody should.

None of us knew Ngannou had a fucked up knee until after the Gane fight. It's the same thing.

 

[SmoothPies]

10. Bob Sapp
9. Rolles Gracie
8. Kimbo Slice
7. Roque Martinez
6. Sean McCorckle
5. Late UFC pregnant Gian Villante
4. Harold Howard
3. Wes Sims
2. Paul Buentello
1. The Consequences

I don't fear Paul Buentello. I'm only afraid of something else, but I can't recall what that was