Tony Ferguson's decline is a good example of why fundamentals matter

[NoSmilez]

Glover was in his 40s as champ. Jan at 40 is still competitive with much younger, much more athletic LHWs. Still top 5.

If you want to say thats LHW then Bobby Green is only 2 years younger and looks way better at age Tony was.

Makdessi is 38 and just got robbed by Mullarkey 2 months ago.... 38yo Tony would get murked by Mullarkey.

Trinaldo in his 40s was beating the likes of Bobby Green and getting KOs...

Tony got older but he never had fundamentals to fall on and still be competitive since he was so reliant on physical attributes.

Bobby Green is shot too. You are naming random older fighters from the prelims. Makdessi and Trinaldo were never solid contenders. Go find a champion at the lighter weights that is old. They don't really exist.

Tony is old. Fundamentals aren't going to save him. He also has a drug problem. I am not even fighter bashing. He had a DUI recently.

 

[markg171]

Watch the RDA and Pettis fights.

You mean the fights where he'd have lost 48-47 without an illegal eyepoke preventing RDA seeing for all of round 2 which was the only early round he lost, and getting dropped silly by Pettis but not KO'd because Pettis broke his own hand dropping Tony silly?

RDA and Pettis are fights that perfectly showcase how Tony was skating by on luck and toughness and could've been losing all along because his skill wasn't where it needed to be.

Also lol at citing #8 washed as fuck Pettis as your example of Tony having such superior skill.

His ground game and guard were elite in his prime, that’s why he was subbing guys off his back and catching guys in darce chokes

He was subbing dudes like Lee and Barboza because Lee had the staphiest staph that ever existed and he illegally upkicked Barboza. Not because he had some fantastic guard.

Truth is Tony's streak could've ended a dozen times over and nobody would've batted an eye. He was balanced on a knife's edge the whole time, not some dominant force.

 

[ipowerslapmywife]

You mean the fights where he'd have lost 48-47 without an illegal eyepoke preventing RDA seeing for all of round 2 which was the only early round he lost, and getting dropped silly by Pettis but not KO'd because Pettis broke his own hand dropping Tony silly?

RDA and Pettis are fights that perfectly showcase how Tony was skating by on luck and toughness and could've been losing all along because his skill wasn't where it needed to be.

Also lol at citing #8 washed as fuck Pettis as your example of Tony having such superior skill.

He was subbing dudes like Lee and Barboza because Lee had the staphiest staph that ever existed and he illegally upkicked Barboza. Not because he had some fantastic guard.

Truth is Tony's streak could've ended a dozen times over and nobody would've batted an eye. He was balanced on a knife's edge the whole time, not some dominant force.

Wow you have an excuse for everything. No such thing as getting lucky 12 times in a row or have a 15-1 ufc record before the gaethje loss. RDA had nothing for Tony, no eye poke changed the fight. Pettis dropped him and got his ass beat the entire fight, he broke Pettis. HGH Kevin Lee did nothing but try to lay on Tony and got subbed.

None came close to beating him

 

[markg171]

Tony literally just had David Goggins coach him for his fight instead of an actual combat coach and there's still Shertards in denial about the dude having a skill problem.

You guys think Goggins is teaching him how to properly throw a punch or something?

 

[ipowerslapmywife]

Tony's not beating anyone. He fought a low level guy and got dominated.

Paddy is mid tier

 

[Poirierfan]

Tony never had good fundamental skills. He always had weak takedown defense and would constantly give up position. He never learned to protect his chin and he can't take the same shots anymore. His offense relied heavily on unorthodox striking techniques. Once the speed and athleticism left him, there was nothing remaining to keep him at an elite level. He never really had knockout power either, which is what helps some fighters win as they age. Some of his prime wins are literally just him out-toughing his opponent and he clearly can't do that anymore.

I tell people all the time, when you age and you don't have the basics down shit goes down hill a whole lot faster.

 

[tasticles]

That's true but I strongly believe his lack of fundamentals is exasperating those things.

Of course it is. They act as if he was bruce lee in his prime. He was always slow as shit with plodding foot work. The damage sustained plus the lack of ability to defend it are far more detrimental than his age. Ask Bryce if it helped his opponent was older.

 

[deviake]

Of course it is. They act as if he was bruce lee in his prime. He was always slow as shit with plodding foot work. The damage sustained plus the lack of ability to defend it are far more detrimental than his age. Ask Bryce if it helped his opponent was older.

Yeah. Although I'll qualify that he was a great fighter, but his style leaned heavily on being mobile and able to sustain damage, both of which diminish quickly with age. Though time comes for everyone, fighters with strong fundamentals who aren't so reliant on these factors tend to age more gracefully as fighters

 

[Deleted member 585708]

Tony never had good fundamental skills. He always had weak takedown defense and would constantly give up position. He never learned to protect his chin and he can't take the same shots anymore. His offense relied heavily on unorthodox striking techniques. Once the speed and athleticism left him, there was nothing remaining to keep him at an elite level. He never really had knockout power either, which is what helps some fighters win as they age. Some of his prime wins are literally just him out-toughing his opponent and he clearly can't do that anymore.

If Tony's decline is a good example of why fundamentals matters, doesn't that mean his rise (which was phenomenal btw) was a good example of how obsessing over fundamentals is inhibitive?

In a lot of sports people talk about 'over-coaching' being a bad thing when it comes to mercurial talent.

Maybe Tony is evidence that also applies to MMA.

 

[FilipEmoFights]

Naw dude Tony is almost exactly like BJ except not as accomplished or as talented

 

[cade187]

It doesn’t prove that fundamentals matter (they do). It only proves that age matters (it does).

 

[Royce's Gi]

I believe this is the best assessment of what needs to happen. If not Tony should completely re-roll his character and start the build entirely fresh.

How about resetting the skill-tree?

 

[ColombianFist]

that's nothing new. we all know tony didn't had the fundamentals to have a strong career, his wins were more on sheer toughness and recovery, while his style relied on athleticism. Once the injury and Gaethje happened it went all downhill.

 

[markg171]

If Tony's decline is a good example of why fundamentals matters, doesn't that mean his rise (which was phenomenal btw) was a good example of how obsessing over fundamentals is inhibitive?

In a lot of sports people talk about 'over-coaching' being a bad thing when it comes to mercurial talent.

Maybe Tony is evidence that also applies to MMA.

Except he nearly lost a dozen times during that streak precisely because he was relying on toughness and cardio instead of skill. Let alone all the cheating, bad calls, and complete outside luck that also kept it going.

His run was remarkable and fun precisely because it kept going in spite of the lack of underlying skill to warrant such a long streak. Had he had stronger skills he wouldn't have come so close to losing so many times, and possibly could've kept it going a tad longer.

 

[blaseblase]

Paddy is mid tier

Watch his fight against Julian Erosa, straight robbery. He's low tier.

 

[NoSmilez]

Tony literally just had David Goggins coach him for his fight instead of an actual combat coach and there's still Shertards in denial about the dude having a skill problem.

You guys think Goggins is teaching him how to properly throw a punch or something?

He had a striking coach in his corner. Tony didn't even train with Goggins for the camp. He did a week with him before the camp started. Goggins is useless as a cornerman but he didn't train Tony for the fight.

 

[CerebralKnievel]

Everybody ignored that he nearly got beat the exact same ways he's since lost all throughout his win streak. He didn't dominate 12 guys in a row. He nearly lost half them and was scraping by fights with heart, cardio, toughness, cheating, bad calls, and complete luck. Not superior skill.

Obviously he's worse now and it's exasberating his issues but anybody pretending his streak wasn't balanced on a knife's edge all along is lying.

"Luck." LOL

You're a moron.

 

[Fjord]

Tony got to be an elite level fighter and one of the most exciting fighters in the entire UFC by doing what he did his own way the whole time.

And now that he's aged, people are coming in and talking to him about fundamentals.

Nah. Tony gonna do Tony. If you can't love Tony for who's he been and what he's brought to all of his fights, I think you'd be the last person Tony would want to listen to about anything related to coaching or "fundamentals".

 

[markg171]

"Luck." LOL

You're a moron.

Yeah Tony's run totally had zero luck involved...

- Getting the Castillo decision
- Lando taking the fight on short notice so he has zero gas tank to follow up and finish Tony on the 5x he drops him
- The countless times the Khabib fight fell through instead of happening
- Illegally upkicking Barboza and turning the fight around
- Illegally eyepoking RDA conveniently in the only early round RDA lost
- Lee being allowed to fight with the worst staph in UFC history which made him gas
- Pettis breaking his own hand dropping Tony, allowing Tony to recover and turn things around
- Pettis' corner stopping the fight in between rounds because of that broken hand
- Illegally punching Cerrone after the bell causing his nose to fill up and hurting him to the point he's confused enough to blow out his nose and blow up his own face between rounds
- Tony getting a TKO for that instead of a DQ
- Not having to fight any of Eddie, Conor, Poirier, or Holloway (when he kept trying to come up) and instead always getting lower ranked guys beyond RDA

Etc.

Tony skated through his win streak on a hair. It's beyond silly to pretend to he was on some dominant streak, skillfully head and shoulders above the rest. He lost nearly a dozens times and kept winning yes in large part because of nothing to do with him.

 

[markg171]

He had a striking coach in his corner. Tony didn't even train with Goggins for the camp. He did a week with him before the camp started. Goggins is useless as a cornerman but he didn't train Tony for the fight.

Tony had Goggins in his corner and trained with him precisely because Tony's entire fighting style has always been about just pushing through adversity no matter the cost instead of.... simply not having adversity in the first place by being better skilled than them first, then being mentally stronger second when needed.

It was the perfect representation of how flawed Tony's always been. Paddy was absolutely right to be like "wtf r u doin mahte" meanwhile Shertards blew loads over him doing "Hell Week".

Until it obviously backfired cause Tony has a skill issue, not a mental strength issue.