Tony Ferguson's decline is a good example of why fundamentals matter

[Hellowhosthat]

Exactly which fighter that he beat during his streak do you think he'd have been WORSE off had he been more of stickler for fundamentally sounder technique?

The reason he kept nearly losing is precisely because his wildness kept costing him.

All of them, his wild technique and pressure is what made him what he was.

 

[Huligani]

Roy Jones Jr is the definitive example of this.

 

[Huligani]

Didn't the dude suffer a terrible knee injury, or some shit?

Yeah but it didn't seem to affect him: one of the best performances of his career was his comeback fight from that ACL tear, and he came back in like 6 months.

 

[blaseblase]

He'd have been less successful in his prime if he concentrated on fundamentals, it was his wild pace and pressure that made him great.

I dont think that's true at all, he could still apply pressure and pace while protecting his chin better and fighting smarter. Gaethje is a good example of this. I don't think BS like throwing sand did anything to help Tony win fights.

 

[m249viking]

Everybody ignored that he nearly got beat the exact same ways he's since lost all throughout his win streak. He didn't dominate 12 guys in a row. He nearly lost half them and was scraping by fights with heart, cardio, toughness, cheating, bad calls, and complete luck. Not superior skill.

Obviously he's worse now and it's exasberating his issues but anybody pretending his streak wasn't balanced on a knife's edge all along is lying.

Nobody ignored it. Everyone talked about Tony being unorthodox, crazy and the hits he absorbed.

 

[Sean Ryan]

His wild unpredictable style does not translate well into older (fighting) age.
He should be set for life after the amount of entertainment he has provided.
I fear he probably isn't.

 

[phenomphan2]

Tony’s style relies a lot on athleticism making up for early mistakes. Striking relies a lot on slashing elbow and winging punches instead of straight punches. Positional grappling is horrible…..way too loose.

He sure was fun to watch though. Although not defensively sound, he was so good at improvising. One of the most creative and instinctive fighters we have ever seen.

 

[Royce's Gi]

It's time to Retire...

 

[markg171]

You can't descredit a 12 fight winning streak by calling half of them luck and bad calls.

Heart, cardio and toughness are all important attributes in a fighter.

Yeah Tony's run totally had zero luck involved...

- Getting the Castillo decision
- Lando taking the fight on short notice so he has zero gas tank to follow up and finish Tony on any of the 5x he drops him
- The countless times the Khabib fight fell through instead of happening
- Illegally upkicking Barboza to turn the fight around
- Illegally eyepoking RDA conveniently in the only early round RDA lost which cost him the decision
- Lee being allowed to fight with the worst staph in UFC history which made him gas
- Pettis breaking his own hand dropping Tony, allowing Tony to recover and turn things around
- Pettis' corner stopping the fight in between rounds because of that broken hand
- Illegally punching Cerrone after the bell causing his nose to fill up and hurting him to the point he's confused enough to blow out his nose, something he hadn't done all fight with his already broken nose, and blow up his own face between rounds
- Tony getting a TKO for that instead of a DQ when it was the illegal blow that was the issue here
- Not having to fight any of Eddie, Conor, Poirier, or Holloway (when he kept trying to come up) and instead always getting lower ranked guys beyond RDA

Etc.

Tony skated through his win streak on a hair. It's beyond silly to pretend to he was on some dominant streak, skillfully head and shoulders above the rest. He lost nearly a dozens times and kept winning yes in large part because of nothing to do with him.

No matter how you look at it his style was effective and got the job done. He took more risks than 90% of fighters and that's why he often got himself in these bad positions. Not because he's a bad fighter.

Hell I reckon he could've won those fights even more convincingly had he not tried stupid shit.

This is literally everybody's point. His style was costing him.

 

[Pepy]

Everybody ignored that he nearly got beat the exact same ways he's since lost all throughout his win streak. He didn't dominate 12 guys in a row. He nearly lost half them and was scraping by fights with heart, cardio, toughness, cheating, bad calls, and complete luck. Not superior skill.

Obviously he's worse now and it's exasberating his issues but anybody pretending his streak wasn't balanced on a knife's edge all along is lying.

Dana gonna let him do a complete 180 and get as many losses in a row.

 

[Siver!]

Except he nearly lost a dozen times during that streak precisely because he was relying on toughness and cardio instead of skill. Let alone all the cheating, bad calls, and complete outside luck that also kept it going.

His run was remarkable and fun precisely because it kept going in spite of the lack of underlying skill to warrant such a long streak. Had he had stronger skills he wouldn't have come so close to losing so many times, and possibly could've kept it going a tad longer.

That's true, but you can say that about so many UFC fighters.

Every weekend there's some dude that closes a skill gap due to athleticism and/or toughness.

 

[Killer Kadoogan]

He has been doing the over encumbered roll in a lot of his fights.

I really am surprised a veteran like him does not possess Havel's ring yet.

 

[Wreckless]

It's beyond silly to pretend to he was on some dominant streak, skillfully head and shoulders above the rest.

No one is claiming this. Stop creating arguments in your head.

It's easy to pick apart every win a fighter has but you don't go 12 times undefeated by pure luck. Period.

 

[michi972]

Didn't he destroy prime Pettis?

Past prime Tony destroyed past prime Pettis

 

[markg171]

No one is claiming this. Stop creating arguments in your head.

It's easy to pick apart every win a fighter has but you don't go 12 times undefeated by pure luck. Period.

You joined a month before Tony lost to Justin.

I can absolutely assure you that people pretended like Tony was some dominant super skilled fighter, who's only just now lost it all to old age and bad losses.

 

[IronGolem007]

Tony never had good fundamental skills. He always had weak takedown defense and would constantly give up position. He never learned to protect his chin and he can't take the same shots anymore. His offense relied heavily on unorthodox striking techniques. Once the speed and athleticism left him, there was nothing remaining to keep him at an elite level. He never really had knockout power either, which is what helps some fighters win as they age. Some of his prime wins are literally just him out-toughing his opponent and he clearly can't do that anymore.

Exactly this.

Everybody ignored that he nearly got beat the exact same ways he's since lost all throughout his win streak. He didn't dominate 12 guys in a row. He nearly lost half them and was scraping by fights with heart, cardio, toughness, cheating, bad calls, and complete luck. Not superior skill.

Obviously he's worse now and it's exasberating his issues but anybody pretending his streak wasn't balanced on a knife's edge all along is lying.

And this.

Which is precisely why it was so ludicrous to believe a guy who "nearly lost" every fight he won ... and now can't win at all ... would have beaten a truly elite fighter like Khabib ... who had an incredible set of fundamentals, and was the best grappler in MMA during their time together ... almost never losing a single round.

It's utterly laughable.

 

[MotorCityCobra]

The reality is not only is he aging, but you rarely see people in MMA (or boxing for that matter) recover from actual serious beatings like the one he received from Gaethje.

There is a difference between staying game and eating some shots, and getting obviously really rocked multiple times...the latter seems to be a death knell for most fighters.

 

[UppercutFromHades]

I dont agree.


Its simply a matter of a faster decline.

Roy Jones could never use too much fundamentals,because that isnt what got him everything. Trying to stop him would be hindering him. His insane physical gifts allowed him to do things no one could imagine or defend against. There is no way he should have EVER fought differently. He simply should have retired after winning the HW title.

If youve got that style,you probably need an exit plan when you hit 35 or something.

Jiri,Tony,Anderson,Yair....all these guys with flowy/unorthodox styles, They absolutley should fight like that. They were MEANT to fight like that.

Boxing is my first love. If RJJ retired after the Ruiz win, he'd be regarded as up there with SRR.

 

[13Seconds]

No one is claiming this. Stop creating arguments in your head.

It's easy to pick apart every win a fighter has but you don't go 12 times undefeated by pure luck. Period.

Never once did he say pure luck. The post you replied to literally said luck is just one of many factors.

 

[SaltedVinegarfootstomps]

Jim Miller fights low level guys and him and Frankie relied on their wrestling/grappling. Tony has far more mileage and injuries than them. Frankie started getting knocked out around his late 30s.

Wonderboy is a counter striker unlike tony and doesn’t have the mileage

I think you are missing his main point which was Tony can’t beat anyone on the roster. Miller is by your own admission not in that category