Tony Ferguson's decline is a good example of why fundamentals matter

UppercutFromHades said:
I was watching old TF just now. He was so good in his pomp. Offensively he was a dynamo. Those elbows, the angles, the fluidity in his strikes and his cardio was awesome.

Sad to see him now - he is a shell, washed up.
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Agreed. He wasn't completely unskilled like some are making him out to be. Not only was he a diverse striker like you pointed out but he actually had some very effective offensive footwork too, he could pop you with a long jab and close distance and be elbowing you in the face in the same combo. Obviously he got hit a lot but the damage he inflicted on his opponent was usually much greater. His footwork has obviously deteriorated badly throughout the years, as speed is the first thing to go on fighters.
 
markg171 said:
Yeah Tony's run totally had zero luck involved...

- Getting the Castillo decision
- Lando taking the fight on short notice so he has zero gas tank to follow up and finish Tony on the 5x he drops him
- The countless times the Khabib fight fell through instead of happening
- Illegally upkicking Barboza and turning the fight around
- Illegally eyepoking RDA conveniently in the only early round RDA lost
- Lee being allowed to fight with the worst staph in UFC history which made him gas
- Pettis breaking his own hand dropping Tony, allowing Tony to recover and turn things around
- Pettis' corner stopping the fight in between rounds because of that broken hand
- Illegally punching Cerrone after the bell causing his nose to fill up and hurting him to the point he's confused enough to blow out his nose and blow up his own face between rounds
- Tony getting a TKO for that instead of a DQ
- Not having to fight any of Eddie, Conor, Poirier, or Holloway (when he kept trying to come up) and instead always getting lower ranked guys beyond RDA

Etc.

Tony skated through his win streak on a hair. It's beyond silly to pretend to he was on some dominant streak, skillfully head and shoulders above the rest. He lost nearly a dozens times and kept winning yes in large part because of nothing to do with him.
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Tell us all some more about your hero, Conor.
 
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deadshot138 said:
Didn't he destroy prime Pettis?
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Much prime.

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Despite that Pettis still dropped him like a sack of potatoes, unfortunately breaking his own hand in the process which is what allowed Tony to survive on to take over. And it was his hand that caused Pettis' corner to stop the fight between rounds and give Tony the win.
 
I dont agree.


Its simply a matter of a faster decline.

Roy Jones could never use too much fundamentals,because that isnt what got him everything. Trying to stop him would be hindering him. His insane physical gifts allowed him to do things no one could imagine or defend against. There is no way he should have EVER fought differently. He simply should have retired after winning the HW title.

If youve got that style,you probably need an exit plan when you hit 35 or something.

Jiri,Tony,Anderson,Yair....all these guys with flowy/unorthodox styles, They absolutley should fight like that. They were MEANT to fight like that.
 
Sometimes it's the unorthodox stuff mixed in with other attributes that make a fighter truly special. Roy Jones is a good example. He was one of the best fighters ever beating Hopkins and James Toney who where much better fundamentally but once he lost his other attributes he starting getting KO'd left right and centre. Toney and Hopkins were able to do extremely well late in their career because of their great fundamentals.
 
markg171 said:
Much prime.

View attachment 1018560

Despite that Pettis still dropped him like a sack of potatoes, unfortunately breaking his own hand in the process which is what allowed Tony to survive on to take over. And it was his hand that caused Pettis' corner to stop the fight between rounds and give Tony the win.
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The man submitted Olives. Probably still beats him tbh. I believe.
<{Joewithit}>
 
It's hard to say. If Tony had more typical D1 wrestling (I think he wrestled D2 in college but had poor TDD) and massive one-shot KO power, then yeah, he might have been a great fighter if he focused on fundamentals. Instead, he was an awkward, lanky fighter who wasn't very athletic in the traditional sense but had amazing cardio and toughness. His unpredictable style and lack of fundamentals sometimes helped him win. He lured guys into thinking they could dominate him after R1, only to find Tony to getting stronger each round like a zombie.

There are always exceptions and people who excel because they break some of the rules (whether in business, athletics, music, etc.)...though that doesn't work for most people.
 
markg171 said:
Everybody ignored that he nearly got beat the exact same ways he's since lost all throughout his win streak. He didn't dominate 12 guys in a row. He nearly lost half them and was scraping by fights with heart, cardio, toughness, cheating, bad calls, and complete luck. Not superior skill.
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I agree, but to me it was even more impressive then if he just straight-up dominated.
 
blaseblase said:
Tony never had good fundamental skills. He always had weak takedown defense and would constantly give up position. He never learned to protect his chin and he can't take the same shots anymore. His offense relied heavily on unorthodox striking techniques. Once the speed and athleticism left him, there was nothing remaining to keep him at an elite level. He never really had knockout power either, which is what helps some fighters win as they age. Some of his prime wins are literally just him out-toughing his opponent and he clearly can't do that anymore.
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Very good points. I believe his biggest downfall was actually the leg break, and in particular, his hasty return to the octagon without giving the knee proper time to heal. He could have gotten away with it in his early 20s

Tony was doing crazy rolls, snap downs, d’arce chokes, and other techniques that are really reliant on strong legs.

Post leg break, barely any rolls, barely any serious D’arce chokes or even attempts. Further more, i believe he fired pretty much all his coaches and is probably just using the wing chun wooden dummy to spar.. instead of going at it with live opponent. He’s that kind of guy
 
NoSmilez said:
Bobby Green is shot too. You are naming random older fighters from the prelims. Makdessi and Trinaldo were never solid contenders. Go find a champion at the lighter weights that is old. They don't really exist.

Tony is old. Fundamentals aren't going to save him. He also has a drug problem. I am not even fighter bashing. He had a DUI recently.
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How old is Volk? MM?
 
HHJ said:
He found a way. hard to kill.
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Exactly. There are guys who are like bulldozers, just plow through the competition and you expect them to win by default. And there are others, like Tony, who looked beatable but still did it in spite of adversity. Reminded me of Fedor for a while, even though not really comparable.
 
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