Tony Ferguson's decline is a good example of why fundamentals matter

[blaseblase]

Tony's "decline" has nothing to do with fundamentals; it's about age. At this age and mileage (the guy's been fighting professionally for 15 years), no amount of fundamentals would keep him "at an elite level."

Tony was 36 when this losing streak started. The only current top 10 LW who's 36 or older is Chandler, and his best win in the UFC was over #6 ranked Hooker (when Chandler was 34).

If anything, Tony fought at an elite level longer than almost every other LW.

Jim Miller and Frankie Edgar were able to win fights out of their prime. I'm not sure Tony could beat anyone on the current roster.

Compare him to Wonderboy at 40. Wonderboy's footwork and TDD have fallen apart in his old age but his striking is still elite. Tony on the other hand is bad everywhere because he never got good with the basics anywhere. He has no base to fall back on his old age.

 

[ipowerslapmywife]

People are forgetting how good Tony was lol

 

[ipowerslapmywife]

Tony never had good fundamental skills. He always had weak takedown defense and would constantly give up position. He never learned to protect his chin and he can't take the same shots anymore. His offense relied heavily on unorthodox striking techniques. Once the speed and athleticism left him, there was nothing remaining to keep him at an elite level. He never really had knockout power either, which is what helps some fighters win as they age. Some of his prime wins are literally just him out-toughing his opponent and he clearly can't do that anymore.

His takedown defense in his prime wasn’t bad at all. He would always win in a scramble as well

 

[deviake]

People are forgetting how good Tony was lol

He was but his wily/scrappiness played a lot into his success. He didn't have polished technique to fall back on.

 

[BodybagJohnny**]

I think it's mostly just wear and tear. He never had good quickness anyway. His unpredictable style and toughness actually made up for it.

But his style also left him open to a lot of damage. He also works out like an idiot, paying no need for form or, apparently, injuries and overtraining.

So he's functionally much older than other fighters his age.

 

[ipowerslapmywife]

He was but his wily/scrappiness played a lot into his success. He didn't have polished technique to fall back on.

I mean it’s not the technique he’s lacking. He’s old and lacks the athleticism he once had, his knees are gone too. At lightweight you can’t compete with smaller guys when you lose your speed. Even before his loss to Gaethje he was getting old for a lightweight

 

[SamuraiBro]

Glover is a perfect example of someone honed in on fundamentals as he aged and ended up becoming a champ.

 

[deviake]

I mean it’s not the technique he’s lacking. He’s old and lacks the athleticism he once had, his knees are gone too. At lightweight you can’t compete with smaller guys when you lose your speed. Even before his loss to Gaethje he was getting old for a lightweight

That's true but I strongly believe his lack of fundamentals is exasperating those things.

 

[ipowerslapmywife]

Jim Miller and Frankie Edgar were able to win fights out of their prime. I'm not sure Tony could beat anyone on the current roster.

Compare him to Wonderboy at 40. Wonderboy's footwork and TDD have fallen apart in his old age but his striking is still elite. Tony on the other hand is bad everywhere because he never got good with the basics anywhere. He has no base to fall back on his old age.

Jim Miller fights low level guys and him and Frankie relied on their wrestling/grappling. Tony has far more mileage and injuries than them. Frankie started getting knocked out around his late 30s.

Wonderboy is a counter striker unlike tony and doesn’t have the mileage

 

[josh345]

Tony never had good fundamental skills. He always had weak takedown defense and would constantly give up position. He never learned to protect his chin and he can't take the same shots anymore. His offense relied heavily on unorthodox striking techniques. Once the speed and athleticism left him, there was nothing remaining to keep him at an elite level. He never really had knockout power either, which is what helps some fighters win as they age. Some of his prime wins are literally just him out-toughing his opponent and he clearly can't do that anymore.

He had some power though. He busted up everyone he used to fight. Now he can't even cut open Nate Diaz for fucks sake I'm not even a Tony fan

 

[ScarfaceJr]

He shoulda thrown more sand in there.

 

[ipowerslapmywife]

Glover is a perfect example of someone honed in on fundamentals as he aged and ended up becoming a champ.

Grapplers/wrestlers are the only ones who can compete at a high level in their late 30s. They lose athleticism but can still wrestle. No fighter has the wear and tear on their body like tony has nor trained like him either. In the lower weight classes like lightweight older slower guys have no chance without speed and athleticism. You can be 40 and have success at LHW and HW but not in the lighter weight classes.

 

[HI SCOTT NEWMAN]

Fundamentals matter but he got old. It doesn't really matter at this point.

One thing I have noticed about Tony is the last 3-4 years he barely throws any elbows, he might throw like 1 or 2 elbows in a fight, which is bizarre, because if you go back and watch all his fights from TUF and then his long win streak he threw elbows constantly, it was his main weapon and also his best weapon. But last few years he just doesn't throw them and has had many chances too when they are in-close. I'm not sure whats the deal with that.. but he is not using his greatest weapon anymore

Sure he used to do lots of spinning elbow attacks, which he can't do as much now because he is older and slower.. BUT he did also used to throw a lot of elbows when he was in-close and near the fence and on the ground, but last few years he doesn't even throw those more basic elbows

 

[SamuraiBro]

Grapplers/wrestlers are the only ones who can compete at a high level in their late 30s. They lose athleticism but can still wrestle. No fighter has the wear and tear on their body like tony has nor trained like him either. In the lower weight classes like lightweight older slower guys have no chance without speed and athleticism. You can be 40 and have success at LHW and HW but not in the lighter weight classes.

Yeah that is true about LHW and HW. I still think Tony could have had more success if he focused on fundamentals. From what I can tell, he has no stable gym or coaches. Just bounces around and hires randoms for camps and corners.

 

[TheTickG]

Tony never had good fundamental skills. He always had weak takedown defense and would constantly give up position. He never learned to protect his chin and he can't take the same shots anymore. His offense relied heavily on unorthodox striking techniques. Once the speed and athleticism left him, there was nothing remaining to keep him at an elite level. He never really had knockout power either, which is what helps some fighters win as they age. Some of his prime wins are literally just him out-toughing his opponent and he clearly can't do that anymore.

Also a good example of why you shouldn't wear sunglasses indoors.

 

[bambammccoy]

Castillo was robbed.

Lando nearly killed him.

Eyepoked RDA costing him the fight.

Barboza chewed him up with left hooks and left body hooks before succumbing to pressure like he's always done.

Kevin Lee win aged very poorly and Cowboy win aged even worse somehow.

 

[blaseblase]

Jim Miller fights low level guys and him and Frankie relied on their wrestling/grappling. Tony has far more mileage and injuries than them. Frankie started getting knocked out around his late 30s.

Wonderboy is a counter striker unlike tony and doesn’t have the mileage

Tony's not beating anyone. He fought a low level guy and got dominated.

 

[ExitLUPin]

Fundamentals matter but he got old. It doesn't really matter at this point.

Glover was in his 40s as champ. Jan at 40 is still competitive with much younger, much more athletic LHWs. Still top 5.

If you want to say thats LHW then Bobby Green is only 2 years younger and looks way better at age Tony was.

Makdessi is 38 and just got robbed by Mullarkey 2 months ago.... 38yo Tony would get murked by Mullarkey.

Trinaldo in his 40s was beating the likes of Bobby Green and getting KOs...

Tony got older but he never had fundamentals to fall on and still be competitive since he was so reliant on physical attributes.

 

[laleggenda27]

Jim Miller and Frankie Edgar were able to win fights out of their prime. I'm not sure Tony could beat anyone on the current roster.

Compare him to Wonderboy at 40. Wonderboy's footwork and TDD have fallen apart in his old age but his striking is still elite. Tony on the other hand is bad everywhere because he never got good with the basics anywhere. He has no base to fall back on his old age.

1. You didn't say anything about being "able to win fights" out of his prime. You said "there was nothing remaining to keep him at an elite level." The simple fact is that no LW in history has been elite at his age.

2. Jim Miller hasn't beaten a ranked fighter in almost a decade. He's been crushing can for many years now. He doesn't belong in this conversation (no disrespect toward Jim intended). And going back to the age of 36, Frankie got completely flatlined/bludgeoned in 6 of his final 8 fights. If anything, that supports my point about age.

3. I'm not sure why Wonderboy has entered the chat. He's in a different division, and longevity is progressively easier for heavier weight classes.

Again, no LW is elite at Tony's age. Period. A good case could be made that he had better longevity than almost every LW in history. And I'm not even a Tony fan. But show me all the LWs who stayed elite until the age of 36 like Tony did. I'll wait...

 

[NoSmilez]

One thing I have noticed about Tony is the last 3-4 years he barely throws any elbows, he might throw like 1 or 2 elbows in a fight, which is bizarre, because if you go back and watch all his fights from TUF and then his long win streak he threw elbows constantly, it was his main weapon and also his best weapon. But last few years he just doesn't throw them and has had many chances too when they are in-close. I'm not sure whats the deal with that.. but he is not using his greatest weapon anymore

Sure he used to do lots of spinning elbow attacks, which he can't do as much now because he is older and slower.. BUT he did also used to throw a lot of elbows when he was in-close and near the fence and on the ground, but last few years he doesn't even throw those more basic elbows

His knees are definitely shot. Those basic elbows that he threw are sort of bad technique but it worked for him. He did try to do those in some of the previous fights but his opponents landed hard shots when he tried that lunging elbow. He isn't going to beat a straight punch with that elbow. He also doesn't tuck his chin when he throws them.

The elbows that I thought he could have thrown was while he had someone in his guard. Maybe it's a cardio issue; I am honestly not sure. He also doesn't throw any volume in his strikes anymore. Tony at his best is chaotic and made up for the unorthodox technique by having immense pressure. I don't really think he can find any of that past glory. It's not an issue PEDs can even fix. It feels like Chuck when he fell off.