Tippy toes a no no...a better way to kick

[Snubnoze707]

As I said it's not about who you know or what you've done, it's what you know. Many people who have participated or excelled in a sport know nothing about it. Follow any former player turned analyst for proof.

It's also about what you have experienced and how you developed what you "know". Just watching fights can be beneficial if you have the eye for it, but their are nuances and aspects that get lost and can only be learned hands on or direct from the source.

 

[jtwarwagon4life]

It's also about what you have experienced and how you developed what you "know". Just watching fights can be beneficial if you have the eye for it, but their are nuances and aspects that get lost and can only be learned hands on or direct from the source.

You don't understand the distinction between knowledge that and knowlege how. Knowhow will make you a good fighter and might help you in becoming a better coach, but will not necessarily add to you're expertise in making true or false claims about that subject matter. Which is why most of the real experts in other sports are historian, scientists, mathematicians, journalists or analysts, not actual practitioners.

 

[Snubnoze707]

You don't understand the distinction between knowledge that and knowlege how. Knowhow will make you a good fighter and might help you in becoming a better coach, but will not necessarily add to you're expertise in making true or false claims about that subject matter. Which is why most of the real experts in other combat sports are historian or analysts, not actual practitioners.

Cool, but we aren't talking history we are talking technique. I'm not going to a historian for technical advice.

Here's the thing. I've already done everything you have done. I started watching the sport 15 years ago. This was before everything was so accessible. I spent hours and hours watching fights going back to the early days of Muay Thai. I made countless DVD's of OneSongchai events and anything else I could get my hands on. I got my hands on every piece of training footage I could get from various eras.

I've done that and more. I don't see why you think you are so special. I'm certainly not going to claim I'm an expert just going to give my honest opinion based on the knowledge I've accumulated. Tone down your ego, you aren't the authority on Muay Thai. The only person that can really make that case is probably Rob Cox. You ain't him.

 

[jtwarwagon4life]

Here's the thing. I've already done everything you have done.

No you haven't. If you had, you'd know as much as I do. And you don't.

Tone down your ego, you aren't the authority on Muay Thai.

I didn't claim to be "the" authority. But I am clearly one of the authorities in the english speaking world. But that isn't very impressive since most people who "follow" muay thai are idiots who can't be bothered to do their homework.

I don't claim that what I know about muay thai is that impressive or illuminating. I know much less that is useful about muay thai, then someone who is a knowledgeable poster on the boxing or grappling forum knows about boxing or grappling. But that isn't my fault that's the state of the discipline.

All I'm trying to do is to raise the level of public knowledge of muay thai, in the english speaking world, to an acceptable level. And as part of that I try to point out the inadequacy of most of the supposed "experts" and "facts" that get past along on this forum and elsewhere.

 

[Kanka]

Then we both agree. Right on.

No point in arguing with a guy who never threw a kick in his life. He'll post anythinh to prove he's an elite muay thai fan

 

[Kanka]

It's easier to argue against the fighters one posts than the actual arguments, but he doesn't provide any substance at all. Pretty good trolling

 

[Snubnoze707]

It's easier to argue against the fighters one posts than the actual arguments, but he doesn't provide any substance at all. Pretty good trolling

Pretty much. Just telling people he's so knowledgeable without providing actual knowledge, just boasting. Helping raise the level of knowledge with self congratulatory back slaps and doucebaggery, I guess...

 

[Kanka]

But I am clearly one of the authorities in the english speaking world.

hehe ok

 

[-guerilla-]

Bruce Lee... Well known for his excellent Muay Thai Roundhouses...

Nothing more to see here guys.

/Thread

More or less. They may or may not have their heel way off the ground or rotate on the ball of the foot, but the weight is generally off the heel and towards the toe. And in fact if you actually watch the Dany Bill video he clearly brings his heel off the ground when he kicks above the waist and even jumps into his round kick, so his whole foot leaves the ground.

Come on guys we don't need to get contentious here the fact is that in Thailand they are trained to raise up on the ball of their foot with body and high round kicks, that's a FACT.

You see a flat base foot much more out of the non thai kickboxers that I cited.
Bill, Kamen, Hoost, Fedor.

I agree that the greatest Thai born Thai boxers raise up on their ball when doing round kicks medium and high however nobody Rises up on the ball of their foot when they throw low kicks.

the catch here is that you all are suggesting that it's about the pivot and power and I'm suggesting that it's more about countering sweeps dumps and throws.

If it was about pivot and Power native Thai boxers would rise up on the ball of the foot when delivering low kicks.

I am not a Muay Thai purest although I've been involved with the sport since the 1980s where I grew up in Hawaii.

My concern is how the greatest round kick in the world translates to MMA and street fighting, we can all agree that Muay Thai especially real Muay Thai from Thailand is the greatest striking art that's ever been devised in human history but I wholly believe that you are more susceptible to sweep stumps and throws when you rise up on the ball of your foot and it is possible to throw an effective head kick with a perfectly flat bass foot but it takes a lot of flexibility and training. Watch the hoost pad training video.

In the very first video I posted you see an athlete who is capable of delivering an excellent high kick with a perfectly flat base foot.

Most kickboxers rise up on the ball over their foot when delivering a high kick

Some rise up on the ball of the foot when delivering a mid kick

NOBODY Rises up on the ball of the foot when delivering a low kick.

That's because it's all about subconscious reaching not about power not about rotation it's just reaching and it's a bad idea, there's a better way to kick!

 

[-guerilla-]

Thai pure (straight leg tip toe)


But never with low kicks

 

[-guerilla-]

34
46
108
530
740
820
840
930
953
And these are just the round kicks, most of the spinning kicks also maintain a flat base foot.

It's an evolution in kicking guys, it's perfectly fine to be an artistic purist but things are becoming more clear that muay thai has one major flaw!

 

[Yodsanan]

It's an evolution in kicking guys, it's perfectly fine to be an artistic purist but things are becoming more clear that muay thai has one major flaw!

that's like looking at Triathlon for running technique instead of looking at runners.

 

[Snubnoze707]

Non of our counter arguments are being addressed, and we're subject to the same repetitive points that have already been refuted. No purpose in continuing this arguement. The TS had his mind made up already. Now he's applying spin kick mechanics, I'm done.

 

[-guerilla-]

Non of our counter arguments are being addressed, and we're subject to the same repetitive points that have already been refuted. No purpose in continuing this arguement. The TS had his mind made up already. Now he's applying spin kick mechanics, I'm done.

Ok, ok, fair enough, give me your top 3 points and I will adress them in my next post one by one, I appreciate the effort your putting into this thread!

 

[verrix]

Non of our counter arguments are being addressed, and we're subject to the same repetitive points that have already been refuted. No purpose in continuing this arguement. The TS had his mind made up already. Now he's applying spin kick mechanics, I'm done.

That's how these threads always go lol

 

[Snubnoze707]

That's how these threads always go lol

It's why I stopped going into the technique discussion forum, where this thread should have been posted.

 

[aerius]

So let me get this straight. In a combat sport where sweeps, throws, and dumps are among the highest scoring techniques, the fighters have evolved to throw kicks in a way that makes it easy for them to get swept. And then you post videos of a bunch of Dutch kickboxers, a sport with no sweeps, throws, or dumps, and claim that this is the ideal kicking technique to use when sweeps are in play. That is a special kind of speshul.

 

[JKD sanda]

I know they’re practicing in video but you’ll see foot planted and sweeps are still happening. If you kick with planted foot and bent knee your still open to being swept.

 

[-guerilla-]

So let me get this straight. In a combat sport where sweeps, throws, and dumps are among the highest scoring techniques, the fighters have evolved to throw kicks in a way that makes it easy for them to get swept. And then you post videos of a bunch of Dutch kickboxers, a sport with no sweeps, throws, or dumps, and claim that this is the ideal kicking technique to use when sweeps are in play. That is a special kind of speshul.

Close, in Thai kickboxing they train athletes to rise up on the ball of their foot when delivering medium and high round kicks and when an athlete like Danny Bill comes in there he becomes the seven-time world champion in short order because he is so good at sweeping them dumping them and throwing them and is less susceptible to these techniques because he usually maintains a flat base foot when kicking...

In fact many European athletes have done very well in Muay Thai despite the fact that only a tiny percentage of them can make the weight requirements in Thai boxing.

When you look at the Modern mixed martial arts athletes they are kicking with a flat base foot and a deeply bent knee because they know that it makes their base less susceptible to sweeps dumps and throws which is critical for success in the cage...

a matter of fact I don't know of any Thai mixed martial arts Champions do you?

This thread is about warning cross training athletes that there is one major flaw in the Muay Thai way of kicking mid and high and if you want to see athletes that figure that out look to the Dutch kickboxers.

The few that could compete in the thai weight classes like Ramon dekkers and Danny Bill did very very well despite some of the most corrupt point system scoring I've ever seen.

It's ok to be a strict traditionalist, I'm into MMA so that's how I think.

I really appreciate the activity on this thread and appreciate your efforts!

 

[-guerilla-]

I know they’re practicing in video but you’ll see foot planted and sweeps are still happening. If you kick with planted foot and bent knee your still open to being swept.

I agree there is no guarantee that you won't be swept... it just reduces the overall risk significantly and probably makes your kick just as if not more powerful.