Tippy toes a no no...a better way to kick

[-guerilla-]

Here's yet another example of the evolution in kicking we are seeing today.

 

[Snubnoze707]

Close, in Thai kickboxing they train athletes to rise up on the ball of their foot when delivering medium and high round kicks and when an athlete like Danny Bill comes in there he becomes the seven-time world champion in short order because he is so good at sweeping them dumping them and throwing them and is less susceptible to these techniques because he usually maintains a flat base foot when kicking...

In fact many European athletes have done very well in Muay Thai despite the fact that only a tiny percentage of them can make the weight requirements in Thai boxing.

When you look at the Modern mixed martial arts athletes they are kicking with a flat base foot and a deeply bent knee because they know that it makes their base less susceptible to sweeps dumps and throws which is critical for success in the cage...

a matter of fact I don't know of any Thai mixed martial arts Champions do you?

This thread is about warning cross training athletes that there is one major flaw in the Muay Thai way of kicking mid and high and if you want to see athletes that figure that out look to the Dutch kickboxers.

The few that could compete in the thai weight classes like Ramon dekkers and Danny Bill did very very well despite some of the most corrupt point system scoring I've ever seen.

It's ok to be a strict traditionalist, I'm into MMA so that's how I think.

I really appreciate the activity on this thread and appreciate your efforts!

This post is so full of bullshit and misinformation.

@jtwarwagon4life here's your chance to educate...

 

[Kanka]

This post is so full of bullshit and misinformation.

@jtwarwagon4life here's your chance to educate...

Arguing against that guy won't boost his ego as the muay thai authority as much as arguing against some frequent posters here...

 

[mikiemike87]

1. Your point that flat footed kicking in MMA is an evolution of kicking to avoid takedowns is questionable. Watch the feet of round 1 in the second fight between DJ/ Cejudo. Possibly the two most skilled men to ever step foot on the octagon. The GOAT Dj, is clearly seen lifting the heel on kicks. And Cejudo, an Olympic gold medalling wrestler, is seen rising EGREGIOUSLY high on the ball of his foot to your standards to throw a round house. Feel free to shoot them dms they're doing it wrong, a 2 dollar donation on DJ's twitch will get the message across I believe.
2. Your counter point to that there aren't any thai champs is because it comes down to the lack of good grappling coaches in Thailand obviously. Why are so many non american mma fighters relocating to the US? They have the best one stop shop training infrastructures obviously.

 

[jtwarwagon4life]

This post is so full of bullshit and misinformation.

@jtwarwagon4life here's your chance to educate...

If I went after all the low hanging fruit in this subforum, then people like you wouldn't be allowed to feel secure in their limited knowledge of muay thai.

Don't you want to be able to tell MMA fans how Barboza's switch kick ain't got shit on Buakaw's?

 

[UWanaPlayDaGame]

All I'm trying to do is to raise the level of public knowledge of muay thai, in the english speaking world, to an acceptable level

What are you doing to accomplish this?

 

[Snubnoze707]

If I went after all the low hanging fruit in this subforum, then people like you wouldn't be allowed to feel secure in their limited knowledge of muay thai.

Don't you want to be able to tell MMA fans how Barboza's switch kick ain't got shit on Buakaw's?

Maybe put your money where your mouth is.

If you had ever actually trained and could appreciate technique at a higher level you would respect Buakaw's switch kick regardless of wherever you think he ranks. But that's really only where your education is, rankings. Maybe we can team you up with Perfect Kickboxing to do Muay Thai rankings?

 

[-guerilla-]

1. Your point that flat footed kicking in MMA is an evolution of kicking to avoid takedowns is questionable. Watch the feet of round 1 in the second fight between DJ/ Cejudo. Possibly the two most skilled men to ever step foot on the octagon. The GOAT Dj, is clearly seen lifting the heel on kicks. And Cejudo, an Olympic gold medalling wrestler, is seen rising EGREGIOUSLY high on the ball of his foot to your standards to throw a round house. Feel free to shoot them dms they're doing it wrong, a 2 dollar donation on DJ's twitch will get the message across I believe.
2. Your counter point to that there aren't any thai champs is because it comes down to the lack of good grappling coaches in Thailand obviously. Why are so many non american mma fighters relocating to the US? They have the best one stop shop training infrastructures obviously.

Your gonna find a lot of examples of the traditional thai round kick!

Most people rise up on the ball of their foot when they throw high round kicks, that's the traditional way they learned.

Just because it's common and popular doesn't mean it's the best way to do things.

I like fedor/mirko/Danny bill and Ernesto hoosts kicking style more.

AND the videos I posted suggest that its the future of the MMA round kick.

If you guys want to keep rising up on your tippy toes and straightening your base leg while you kick that's fine with me, keep training bjj cause your gonna be on your back alot.

I think the MMA transition is gonna be a bit rougher for you however if your a thai purist and don't care about mma and street and want to honor the traditional style, have at it

Non-americans are relocating to the United States because we have the best living standards and highest quality training facilities out there, the deficiencies we have are pretty minor in style and are quickly being rectified as we speak, I believe America will end up dominating mixed martial arts as we know it.

( as as soon as they start training in pure MMA instead of SPLITTING wrestling, BJJ and Thai boxing in separate classes to make a whole bunch of extra money that is)

 

[Blowing Dixie]

a matter of fact I don't know of any Thai mixed martial arts Champions do you?

Dejdamrong was champ in ONE FC for a while. Dude was almost 40 at the time.

It's amazing that this thread is still alive and well though. I thought it would last only a couple of days considering that your advice is about as sound as telling soccer players to kick the ball using the toes instead of the instep.

 

[-guerilla-]

Dejdamrong was champ in ONE FC for a while. Dude was almost 40 at the time.

It's amazing that this thread is still alive and well though. I thought it would last only a couple of days considering that your advice is about as sound as telling soccer players to kick the ball using the toes instead of the instep.

Good data on dejdamrong...thanks!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dejdamrong_Sor_Amnuaysirichoke

So are you suggesting that Danny bill, Ernesto hoost, Mirko Cro Cop and Fedor Emelianenko don't know how to kick properly?

Or am I hallucinating and they're actually rising up on their tippy toes with a straightened base leg as they kick?

 

[aerius]

So are you suggesting that Danny bill, Ernesto hoost, Mirko Cro Cop and Fedor Emelianenko don't know how to kick properly?

Or am I hallucinating and they're actually rising up on their tippy toes with a straightened base leg as they kick?

Yes.

 

[Kanka]

All those guys know how to kick. Fedor and Cro Cop kick hard as hell of course, but at heavier weight classes it's not as important to have refined kicking skills and it's rare to see heavyweights getting into chess-like kicking exchanges.

Danny Bill of course knows how to kick aswell, in fact he had good kicks and he did pivot his foot when kicking. I think you have to watch his fights again, his heel gets of the ground and he pivots, although it's quite subtle. For a lot of thai fighters it's also very subtle. Usually by lifting up your heel, you don't have to pivot as much because you have increased mobility. He was an allround good fighter with a high fighting IQ but his kicking skills don't stand out to me as exceptionally good in comparison to other fighters. You don't necessarily have to be an exceptionally good kicker to be succesful in muay thai. I don't think Saeksan or Muangthai are exceptionally good kickers and they're still some of the most succesful nak muay in recent years. Also him sweeping his opponents legs has nothing to do with his own kicking foot being planted. It's rumoured he failed to make weight against his thai opponents a couple of times, so a weight advantage might be a possible factor why he could sweep them easily. Not taking away anything from him though, he was a great fighter. He trained in Thailand at Jocky Gym and at Sidyodtong so pretty sure he learned from the thais.

If you really want an answer you can just follow my advice, i posted it here before. Try throwing multiple fast kicks with a flat foot while your pad holder is moving around, it's quite difficult to stay balanced. Try it and tell me how it worked.

Either way you were mentioning some street fights and honestly i haven't thrown a kick in a street fight so i wouldn't know. My advice was mainly for competing in the sport of muay thai. Perhaps some self-proclaimed muay thai authorities on here can help you with the street fight thing.

 

[El_Diazo]

If I went after all the low hanging fruit in this subforum, then people like you wouldn't be allowed to feel secure in their limited knowledge of muay thai.

Don't you want to be able to tell MMA fans how Barboza's switch kick ain't got shit on Buakaw's?

Have you ever fought or trained in Thailand?

 

[-guerilla-]

All those guys know how to kick. Fedor and Cro Cop kick hard as hell of course, but at heavier weight classes it's not as important to have refined kicking skills and it's rare to see heavyweights getting into chess-like kicking exchanges.

Danny Bill of course knows how to kick aswell, in fact he had good kicks and he did pivot his foot when kicking. I think you have to watch his fights again, his heel gets of the ground and he pivots, although it's quite subtle. For a lot of thai fighters it's also very subtle. Usually by lifting up your heel, you don't have to pivot as much because you have increased mobility. He was an allround good fighter with a high fighting IQ but his kicking skills don't stand out to me as exceptionally good in comparison to other fighters. You don't necessarily have to be an exceptionally good kicker to be succesful in muay thai. I don't think Saeksan or Muangthai are exceptionally good kickers and they're still some of the most succesful nak muay in recent years. Also him sweeping his opponents legs has nothing to do with his own kicking foot being planted. It's rumoured he failed to make weight against his thai opponents a couple of times, so a weight advantage might be a possible factor why he could sweep them easily. Not taking away anything from him though, he was a great fighter. He trained in Thailand at Jocky Gym and at Sidyodtong so pretty sure he learned from the thais.

If you really want an answer you can just follow my advice, i posted it here before. Try throwing multiple fast kicks with a flat foot while your pad holder is moving around, it's quite difficult to stay balanced. Try it and tell me how it worked.

Either way you were mentioning some street fights and honestly i haven't thrown a kick in a street fight so i wouldn't know. My advice was mainly for competing in the sport of muay thai. Perhaps some self-proclaimed muay thai authorities on here can help you with the street fight thing.

The big difference is weight shifting rather than raising up.

It has nothing to do with pivot or mobility or thai boxers would rise when throwing low kicks also.

Thai trained kickboxing teaches to kick flat foot for low kicks but raises for mid and high kicks.

You can pivot on a flat foot....

It's possible to shift 99% of your weight to the ball of your foot while keeping your heel on the ground and pivot just fine, like Danny Bill, kamen,cro cop and fedor.

 

[Kanka]

The big difference is weight shifting rather than raising up.

It has nothing to do with pivot or mobility or thai boxers would rise when throwing low kicks also.

Thai trained kickboxing teaches to kick flat foot for low kicks but raises for mid and high kicks.

You can pivot on a flat foot....

It's possible to shift 99% of your weight to the ball of your foot while keeping your heel on the ground and pivot just fine, like Danny Bill, kamen,cro cop and fedor.

Come back when you tried multiple fast kicks with a flat foot while your pad holder is moving around. Until then, i'm done here.

 

[-guerilla-]

I've tried that a few times, it works great!

you can pivot just fine and you're less scceptable to sweeps dumps and throws.

don't get a flat foot on the ground confused with an equal distribution of weight between the ball and the heel your foot... there's a big difference...you can shift your weight to the ball of your foot and pivot great and still keep your heel touching the ground.

There's 3 points of contact in the human foot I never suggested that you should NOT SHIFT YOUR WEIGHT TO THE BALL OF YOUR FOOT.

I train for fighting not for pad work or impressing people at the gym!

there's no reason to throw a bunch of fast kicks of the same kind over and over anyway!

Makes as much sence as straightening your base leg and rising up on your tip toes!

 

[aerius]

Let's go back to this post.
https://forums.sherdog.com/posts/148440605/

Why do all those guys get swept by Dany Bill when they're kicking with the flat feet method which is claimed to be more stable and prevent sweeps?

 

[-guerilla-]

Let's go back to this post.
https://forums.sherdog.com/posts/148440605/

Why do all those guys get swept by Dany Bill when they're kicking with the flat feet method which is claimed to be more stable and prevent sweeps?

Close...
I said Thais DON'T kick with a flat base foot and heavily bent leg THUS making them MORE susceptible to sweeps, dumps and throws.

DANNY Bill, Fedor, Rob kamen and Ernesto hoost DO KEEP a flat base foot when they round kick (for the most part)

That's one of the reasons Danny bill was so successful against thai boxers!

 

[aerius]

DANNY Bill, Fedor, Rob kamen and Ernesto hoost DO KEEP a flat base foot when they round kick (for the most part)

That's one of the reasons Danny bill was so successful against thai boxers!

 

[Kanka]

I've tried that a few times, it works great!

you can pivot just fine and you're less scceptable to sweeps dumps and throws.

don't get a flat foot on the ground confused with an equal distribution of weight between the ball and the heel your foot... there's a big difference...you can shift your weight to the ball of your foot and pivot great and still keep your heel touching the ground.

There's 3 points of contact in the human foot I never suggested that you should NOT SHIFT YOUR WEIGHT TO THE BALL OF YOUR FOOT.

I train for fighting not for pad work or impressing people at the gym!

there's no reason to throw a bunch of fast kicks of the same kind over and over anyway!

Makes as much sence as straightening your base leg and rising up on your tip toes!

You must be a very unique talent then. I've never seen anyone do that. Do you have a video of somebody doing that?