Tippy toes a no no...a better way to kick

Snubnoze707 said:
This shit is futile. Some people are more concerned with being right and using confirmation bias than to actually know the truth. If they want to inhibit their growth that's their prerogative I guess...
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Show me a video of you throwing this kick and for this one time and only I will try to correct you if you throw it wrongly , otherwise go on watching random mt clips from youtube like the rest do here. The mechanics of this kick should come natural to you, otherwise you are relying too much on incomplete information. Either flat footed or high on the toes is wrong technique, the only time where flat footed is ok is when you are completely to the side of the opponent and high on the toes is when you're trying to score points in a TKD match.
 
I know this is primarily a MT thread but just FYI in Karate the foot is always planted. In short it's just 2 different ways of doing the same thing, each with its advantages and disadvantages.

Just my 2c.
 
Hotora86 said:
I know this is primarily a MT thread but just FYI in Karate the foot is always planted. In short it's just 2 different ways of doing the same thing, each with its advantages and disadvantages.

Just my 2c.
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Thanks for the intelligent reply

I think the majority of striking Arts have advocated for a flat base foot while kicking in all circumstances

Growing up in Hawaii I was first exposed to Ashihara and Kyokushinkai fighting karate and loved it however I found Muay Thai to be increasingly popular and it had more of a boxing element that I enjoyed.

To my knowledge Muay Thai is the only martial art style that Advocates staying on the ball of your foot through the entire Kick however I've noticed a trend that some Thai boxers plant their base foot on low and mid kicks.

If you watch K1 you'll see the flat base foot kicking style much more often I believe this is because they have more japanese/korean influence and are heavier athletes
 
shincheckin said:
the bent support leg is ok for leg kicks, not for anything higher
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tell me why from a physics perspective.

Ie what exactly is the mechanical difference between a low mid and high kick except for the hip flexors.
 
FighterTwister said:
One expression used that I have heard of for kicking and punching is..........that its like twirling a wet towel to whip out as it uncoils.

I just remembered that thought to share it might help.

Torque from the root of the ground through the hips and out creates that whipping power for low and high kicks, but as I said earlier that in many Martial Art styles it does depend on the technique and application.

Here is a point of difference from a defensive tactic employed to deflect to make the point because there are a plethora of variations in many techniques already established in many TMA's.........



I have always known this and some will say keep the foot flat down for stability, some will say spin on the ball of your foot, some will say spin on the heel, some will say keep it up for capability and fast whip all open to how and what best suits the practitioner and intent or style.
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Good post thanks for the intelligent reply

I think muay thai is an outlier in that it advocates for staying on the ball of your foot through the entire kicking process on all roundkick variants however you see in practice that many plant their foot on low kicks some on Mid kicks and few on high kicks

I don't believe there's a mechanical difference in the base foot necessities of these kicks

The direct translation from Thai language is crocodile's tail whip kick for round + wheel kick combo
 
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It would be nice to see a translated Muay Thai training syllabus or manual and have it as a thread stickied for all to reference or study it.
 
ARIZE said:
Thank god you are here to correct all those Thais pro on how to kick. Man... seriously... get down from your cloud... Don't you realize how arrogant you are? We showed you multitude of videos and tutorials from the best Nak Muays on how they do the mid round house. How they teach it, how they train it, how they use it in fights... But you still claim that's not the proper way, that you know better. Do you realize how you sound?
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okay you stick with your NAK MUAY traditions...

I'll keep using the MMA variant like
Mirko Cro Cop, GSP, Jon jones and Israel adesanya,

thanks for your reply

.... hey how come this guy doesn't rise up on his tippy-toes when he's throwing these kicks???
 
FighterTwister said:
You make me laugh! <Eek2.0><Lmaoo>

This was the best part of your statement........... "Great intelligent reply." ....... which encourages friendship, good discussion, interaction the rest is vomit, from childish adolescent behavior.

I rather enjoy small interjections of intelligent interaction, mutual respect and an open mind or at least great contribution to a thread rather than beat on chest statements, I leave the chest beating for the real warrior, "King Kong"! <Lmaoo>

Where are the Moderators here we might need some assistance in how we should interact or at least gents like Guerilla read the Forum Rules registration is open for anyone interested in martial arts or ufc.

Here are the rules as a guide for better interaction in all that is considered Martial Arts and how to discuss the differences in a respectful manner............... SHERDOG FORUM RULES:- https://forums.sherdog.com/help/terms

If it was not the case it would be a private Forum for only a minority so enjoy the place and encourage others to cut the nonsense.

You also lack manners and background study on UFC fighters as quite a few have TMA background at least guys like you on Forums should respect those who simply have TMA background and enjoy MMA or UFC competition and they all have their differences in format and application, so be sensible in at least discussing the differences and again encourage others to do the same!

Make it a happy family not war, its vital for a good Forum where we all with various martial arts background or interest come to meet!

Cheers ;)
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Way to emote....i bet you feel better

BTW, your cartoons are very funny...

I have respect for your opinions
 
Here's the great Burkaw in slow motion

Throwing the classical muay thai round kick over and over without punch setups

you can see the tippy toe rise is more or less a spring action to get a tiny bit more power and height off your kick

mechanically I do not believe it's worth the increased risk of sweeps throws and trips that are so critical in MMA

It's not wrong, it's just simply a fact that modern mixed martial arts competition has evolved a new way to kick that in my opinion is superior



In contrast if you watch Adesanyas MMA variant it is significantly different and set up with punches to reduce the need for a pivot...

this is how you should train your roundkicks

 
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I had a quick glance it’s not the best on subject but varies as the images show.
 
Also I believe you have already given enough on topic after rereading the thread it’s all going to be individual preference.

However I watch allot of Saenchis moves for example.......





 
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-guerilla- said:
In contrast if you watch Adesanyas MMA variant it is significantly different and set up with punches to reduce the need for a pivot...

this is how you should train your roundkicks

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Adesanya kicks in the padwork vid doesn't look good. His upper body doesn't turn, his hip flexors doesn't extend. Its just a cheerleader kick with no body weight and no defense (upper body doesn't turn = his head is just in line for a counter right hand).

I'm not saying he wouldn't knock somebody out with it (as he already did plenty) but is it technique good enough to be reference? No. Is it optimal way to deliver his bw? No. Is it the most defensively responsible way to be on one leg when punches are allowed? No.

And why is that? Because his foot is nailed to the ground, stopping his body from achieving proper rotation.

Now this, you can have your base foot planted flat on the ground and force rotation, but why would a person hate their own knees so much?

"This is how you should train your round kicks"

Can't you see how pretentious and arrogant you sound spewing statements like this?

Typical western arrogance.

MMA isn't a revolution, it's just a new sport that will see a lot of trends come and go and it will not bring anything new to the table.

Boxers won't be all ambidextrous jumpy rabbits like TJ and elite Nak Muay won't start to kick with this bastardized version you're advocating.
 
Still about Adesanya... His lead kick is way better because it takes advantage of an already turned foot
 
Lucas Coradini said:
Here in Brazil there's is a saying that goes like "passarinho só come pedra porque sabe o cu que tem" which translates to "little bird only eats rocks because he knows his asshole"

In this case, big man doesn't give a fuck about his knees, so, may the force be with him
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Lucas Coradini said:
Adesanya kicks in the padwork vid doesn't look good. His upper body doesn't turn, his hip flexors doesn't extend. Its just a cheerleader kick with no body weight and no defense (upper body doesn't turn = his head is just in line for a counter right hand).

I'm not saying he wouldn't knock somebody out with it (as he already did plenty) but is it technique good enough to be reference? No. Is it optimal way to deliver his bw? No. Is it the most defensively responsible way to be on one leg when punches are allowed? No.

And why is that? Because his foot is nailed to the ground, stopping his body from achieving proper rotation.

Now this, you can have your base foot planted flat on the ground and force rotation, but why would a person hate their own knees so much?

"This is how you should train your round kicks"

Can't you see how pretentious and arrogant you sound spewing statements like this?

Typical western arrogance.

MMA isn't a revolution, it's just a new sport that will see a lot of trends come and go and it will not bring anything new to the table.

Boxers won't be all ambidextrous jumpy rabbits like TJ and elite Nak Muay won't start to kick with this bastardized version you're advocating.
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Maybee you should actually read the thread before you respond

in fact YOU may even want to take some notes.

no one ever said you should equally distribute the weight of your body across all three points of contact on your foot.

AS I HAVE SAID SO MANY TIMES IN THIS THREAD:

SHIFT 98% OF YOUR WEIGHT TO THE BALL OF YOUR FOOT AND LET YOUR HEEL SLIDE DURRING THE PIVOT

OR (BETTER YET)

THROW ALL YOUR KICKS IN A COMBO WITH PUNCHES AND STEP AT AN ANGLE IN INSTEAD OF PIVOTING....

Concentrate on physics rather THAN birds buttholes, Brazil will be better off.
 
Lucas Coradini said:
Adesanya kicks in the padwork vid doesn't look good. His upper body doesn't turn, his hip flexors doesn't extend. Its just a cheerleader kick with no body weight and no defense (upper body doesn't turn = his head is just in line for a counter right hand).

I'm not saying he wouldn't knock somebody out with it (as he already did plenty) but is it technique good enough to be reference? No. Is it optimal way to deliver his bw? No. Is it the most defensively responsible way to be on one leg when punches are allowed? No.

And why is that? Because his foot is nailed to the ground, stopping his body from achieving proper rotation.
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And this brings us back to one of my previous posts, why was it that Anderson Silva could read and avoid every single head kick that Adesanya threw at him? And the answer to that is simple, Israel's not pivoting his base foot on the kick which necessitates a step-in with his base leg to turn, plant, and align it before he's able to throw the kick. For an experienced fighter like Anderson or any decent Nak Muay, that setup step for the kick is an obvious tell which is why good kickers don't do it. A good Nak Muay would easily read the kick and step in with punches to flatten Adesanya while he's off balance on one leg.

If we watch the Adesanya vs. Silva fight, Israel lifts his front leg to pivot and plant it before every head kick, and pretty much every time Silva sees that step and either leans back or ducks under to avoid the kick.

Clearly, this is the evolved method of kicking where you give your opponent a tell along with more time to defend & counter your kicks.
 
Writing in caps doesn't make your points stronger. It's even embarrassing when don't even address the points made by the person you're responding.

So what with percentages? You posted the clip of Israel kicking with his base foot flat, sometimes even pointing straight forward, and with the leg bent...

You tell me to study physics yet doesn't understand the difference extending or bending the base leg will have on how much your body weight transfers into the kick. Yeah, physics genius, if you bend your base leg you're keeping a lot of weight on it...

Also, I'm not in charge of whatever you think is responsible for "Brazil being better off", but I assure you that it doesn't have anything to do with people citing sayings.
 
aerius said:
clearly, this is the evolved method of kicking where you give your opponent a tell along with more time to defend & counter your kicks.
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Maybe our physics professor will respond with "he didn't set up his kicks with punches, as you ALWAYS should." ignoring that the thais have been kicking the shit out of everybody based on their masterful knowledge of rhythm
 
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