thoughts on kevin burns submission win over carneiro

[Deloitte]

I swear he got rocked, and had to use a lot of energy (takedown) to recover. Did you guys even see the fight?

 

[Zankou]

The triangle is a bitch. No matter how good you are, a triangle that's on ... is on. Doesn't matter if you're a black belt, if you let it get slapped on tight (and in MMA, people get stupid during the chaos) it works.

Eddie's occasionally going to catch Royler.
Kang is occasionally going to get caught in a dumb triangle.

That's the curse of the triangle. Every once in awhile, even the best succumb to it.

I $#&* hate the triangle. The only really good cure is avoidance.

 

[devante]

not sayin the triangle isn't effective or that burns doesn't know his stuff; just saying that WASN'T supposed to happen, yeah anything can happen. We all know that gonzaga shouldn't have caught cro cop w/the high kick, even though i saw that coming.

just odd how it wasn't really mentioned considered the disparity not just in ground skills, but actual mma experience; not saying carneiro can't be beat, but given the exp/level of training and overall groundskill, that shouldn't have happened.

it could happen but noone would have called it

 

[devante]

if i would have said burns subs carneiro w/a triangle noone would have been like yeah i can see that; just like when the one guy in here predicted nate by sub over pellegrino he got flamed to h*ll.

 

[CyberPunk]

I swear he got rocked, and had to use a lot of energy (takedown) to recover. Did you guys even see the fight?

Yea, Burns was battering him with elbows from the guard and up kicks and then before Carneiro's last take down, he ate a big right hand. The dude was rocked, ate a few more elbows, and then was triangled. MMA jiujitsu really is different.

But one thing we should note here is how well Burns kept Carneiro in his guard all of the first round. It was wicked.

 

[devante]

Yea, Burns was battering him with elbows from the guard and up kicks and then before Carneiro's last take down, he ate a big right hand. The dude was rocked, ate a few more elbows, and then was triangled. MMA jiujitsu really is different.

But one thing we should note here is how well Burns kept Carneiro in his guard all of the first round. It was wicked.

my error for not focusing on that, it was an error on my part; an it does impact the validity of my argument.

real talk-thanks for checking the thread and responding

 

[_Glorfindel_]

As i already pointed out numerous times, bjj is one thing, no gi grappling is another thing and mma grappling, for sure, is a different thing too.

Some bjj guys here think that all you need to do mma is BJJ. I know one of the Gracies make that stupid, ignorant statement not too long ago, but we're not leaving in 1996 anymore...

In mma you are looking for eficient and short setup sub (triangle choke, rear neaked, arm bar, kimura, knee bar, heels hook) and it's easy to understand. You will get puched in the face if you're trying to do a 'fancy setup'

Bjj, no gi grappling and mma grappling are three different beasts.

I discover this forum not so long ago and i found that some bjj guys are rude on mma guys. It's kinda the same thing between boxer vs mma guy. The boxer will say : not good posture, not throwing a lot of combo ect... Yeah, dont forget the guy can get kick, shoot, ect..that's why he dont have the same posture as a boxer. the base is the same (striking) but you cant handle it the same way.

so i think that's the same thing as bjj over mma grappling. dont forget that there is no gi and you can get punched in the face ;-)

 

[devante]

As i already pointed out numerous times, bjj is one thing, no gi grappling is another thing and mma grappling, for sure, is a different thing too.

Some bjj guys here think that all you need to do mma is BJJ. I know one of the Gracies make that stupid, ignorant statement not too long ago, but we're not leaving in 1996 anymore...

In mma you are looking for eficient and short setup sub (triangle choke, rear neaked, arm bar, kimura, knee bar, heels hook) and it's easy to understand. You will get puched in the face if you're trying to do a 'fancy setup'

Bjj, no gi grappling and mma grappling are three different beasts.

I discover this forum not so long ago and i found that some bjj guys are rude on mma guys. It's kinda the same thing between boxer vs mma guy. The boxer will say : not good posture, not throwing a lot of combo ect... Yeah, dont forget the guy can get kick, shoot, ect..that's why he dont have the same posture as a boxer. the base is the same (striking) but you cant handle it the same way.

so i think that's the same thing as bjj over mma grappling. dont forget that there is no gi and you can get punched in the face ;-)

good point, but like i said carneiro is the more exp and at least on paper better mma guy, so u would think he could be prepared for and handle that from a neophyte mmaer

 

[Deloitte]

As i already pointed out numerous times, bjj is one thing, no gi grappling is another thing and mma grappling, for sure, is a different thing too.

Some bjj guys here think that all you need to do mma is BJJ. I know one of the Gracies make that stupid, ignorant statement not too long ago, but we're not leaving in 1996 anymore...

In mma you are looking for eficient and short setup sub (triangle choke, rear neaked, arm bar, kimura, knee bar, heels hook) and it's easy to understand. You will get puched in the face if you're trying to do a 'fancy setup'

Bjj, no gi grappling and mma grappling are three different beasts.

I discover this forum not so long ago and i found that some bjj guys are rude on mma guys. It's kinda the same thing between boxer vs mma guy. The boxer will say : not good posture, not throwing a lot of combo ect... Yeah, dont forget the guy can get kick, shoot, ect..that's why he dont have the same posture as a boxer. the base is the same (striking) but you cant handle it the same way.

so i think that's the same thing as bjj over mma grappling. dont forget that there is no gi and you can get punched in the face ;-)

Shut the hell up, that's not even relevant at all. Don't forget that there is no-gi? You don't think Carneiro trains no-gi a lot? Stop trying to troll, this isn't thread about "BJJ is the only thing you need in MMA".

 

[_Glorfindel_]

Yeah, on paper, Carneiro should have won this one ;-) Like another dude pointed it out, it was not his night!

 

[_Glorfindel_]

Shut the hell up, that's not even relevant at all. Don't forget that there is no-gi? You don't think Carneiro trains no-gi a lot? Stop trying to troll, this isn't thread about "BJJ is the only thing you need in MMA".

Sorry if i insulted you!!!??? But i was not the first to talk about that in this very post, so why picking up on me?

I was just trying to add some pointers to people who think that it's all the same thing.

 

[Deloitte]

Sorry if i insulted you!!!??? But i was not the first to talk about that in this very post, so why picking up on me?

I was just trying to add some pointers to people who think that it's all the same thing.

Because you were the only one to reply after it was made known that the reason for Roan loss was because he was rocked, rather than the argument of sport jiu jitsu vs mma jiu jitsu or BJJ vs no-gi being the reason for him getting choked out.

 

[Jimmy Cerra]

As i already pointed out numerous times, bjj is one thing, no gi grappling is another thing and mma grappling, for sure, is a different thing too.

Some bjj guys here think that all you need to do mma is BJJ. I know one of the Gracies make that stupid, ignorant statement not too long ago, but we're not leaving in 1996 anymore...

In mma you are looking for eficient and short setup sub (triangle choke, rear neaked, arm bar, kimura, knee bar, heels hook) and it's easy to understand. You will get puched in the face if you're trying to do a 'fancy setup'

Bjj, no gi grappling and mma grappling are three different beasts.

I discover this forum not so long ago and i found that some bjj guys are rude on mma guys. It's kinda the same thing between boxer vs mma guy. The boxer will say : not good posture, not throwing a lot of combo ect... Yeah, dont forget the guy can get kick, shoot, ect..that's why he dont have the same posture as a boxer. the base is the same (striking) but you cant handle it the same way.

so i think that's the same thing as bjj over mma grappling. dont forget that there is no gi and you can get punched in the face ;-)

No, you're just preemptively rude against BJJ. That's why they are rude back to you. Even when you say anything good, you infect it with your stereotypical diatribes against BJJ guys.

 

[_Glorfindel_]

Because you were the only one to reply after it was made known that the reason for Roan loss was because he was rocked, rather than the argument of sport jiu jitsu vs mma jiu jitsu or BJJ vs no-gi being the reason for him getting choked out.

Simple question isnt it?? Why he got rocked???

Can you get rocked by a punch in a Bjj tourament? Can you get rocked by a punch in a no-gi grappling tourament?

Are you starting to get my point?

Thx for your reply, you will help other guys, or grapplers over here, who never get punched in the face while grappling (we call that mma) to understand why a superior grappler can be submitted by an inferior one in a MMA fight.

I can also, suggest to you to go watch Marcelo Garcia's mma fight. He lost to a mma journey man judoka, who was 3-3. I will give you a pointer for that fight too, but dont tell anyone. Marcelo lost the fight 'cause he was eating punch...

 

[Deloitte]

Simple question isnt it?? Why he got rocked???

Can you get rocked by a punch in a Bjj tourament? Can you get rocked by a punch in a no-gi grappling tourament?

Are you starting to get my point?

Thx for your reply, you will help other guys, or grapplers over here, who never get punched in the face while grappling (we call that mma) to understand why a superior grappler can be submitted by an inferior one in a MMA fight.

I can also, suggest to you to go watch Marcelo Garcia's mma fight. He lost to a mma journey man judoka, who was 3-3. I will give you a pointer for that fight too, but dont tell anyone. Marcelo lost the fight 'cause he was eating punch...

Why are you such a dense fuck? The original topic was how did a blue belt submit someone with superior grappling credentials. The answer is, he got rocked badly, that's how the superior grappler got submitted at his own forte.

And the purpose of bringing up Marcelo Garcia? You are a fucking troll and should be banned. You also act like he got destroyed in that fight when he controlled the whole fucking first round, yet you try to discredit BJJ skills in its entirety? Your replies are worthless, and the only intent of it is to instigate a BJJ is worthless in MMA argument.

Explain this: Some bjj guys here think that all you need to do mma is BJJ. I know one of the Gracies make that stupid, ignorant statement not too long ago, but we're not leaving in 1996 anymore...


If you don't then I can. TROLL.

 

[_Glorfindel_]

Why are you such a dense fuck? The original topic was how did a blue belt submit someone with superior grappling credentials. The answer is, he got rocked badly, that's how the superior grappler got submitted at his own forte.

And the purpose of bringing up Marcelo Garcia? You are a fucking troll and should be banned. You also act like he got destroyed in that fight when he controlled the whole fucking first round, yet you try to discredit BJJ skills in its entirety? Your replies are worthless, and the only intent of it is to instigate a BJJ is worthless in MMA argument.

Explain this: Some bjj guys here think that all you need to do mma is BJJ. I know one of the Gracies make that stupid, ignorant statement not too long ago, but we're not leaving in 1996 anymore...


If you don't then I can. TROLL.

Your the one that should be banned. You're using bad language and insulting me directly, if you're not able to talk to me correctly, without using bad language or insulting me directly, jsut keep your mouth shut.

Go read my post again, that's exactly my point, the superior grappler got submitted by an inferior one 'cause it's a MMA fight, not a bjj one.

Why speaking of Marcello's fight? To make my point. A top BJJ grappler got ko'ed by a judo mma journey man. It hurt you feeling hein?? I will say it again : Marcello got ko'ed by a judo mma journey man, in a MMA fight. Why? 'cause it's mma, not bjj....

MMA is not Bjj, so when you analyse grappling in mma, you have to juge it by mma standard, not bjj's standard. Same thing about strinking, you have to juge it by MMA standard not Boxing.

And finaly, it's not my fault, if one of your god (dont remember wich one) Gracie, make that stupid statement.

 

[Deloitte]

Your the one that should be banned. You're using bad language and insulting me directly, if you're not able to talk to me correctly, without using bad language or insulting me directly, jsut keep your mouth shut.

Go read my post again, that's exactly my point, the superior grappler got submitted by an inferior one 'cause it's a MMA fight, not a bjj one.

Why speaking of Marcello's fight? To make my point. A top BJJ grappler got ko'ed by a judo mma journey man. It hurt you feeling hein?? I will say it again : Marcello got ko'ed by a judo mma journey man, in a MMA fight. Why? 'cause it's mma, not bjj....

MMA is not Bjj, so when you analyse grappling in mma, you have to juge it by mma standard, not bjj's standard. Same thing about strinking, you have to juge it by MMA standard not Boxing.

And finaly, it's not my fault, if one of your god (dont remember wich one) Gracie, make that stupid statement.

Answer the question, what was the intent of this then?

Some bjj guys here think that all you need to do mma is BJJ. I know one of the Gracies make that stupid, ignorant statement not too long ago, but we're not leaving in 1996 anymore...

Stop avoiding the issue, you filthy troll. You should be banned scum.

 

[_Glorfindel_]

Answer the question, what was the intent of this then?

Some bjj guys here think that all you need to do mma is BJJ. I know one of the Gracies make that stupid, ignorant statement not too long ago, but we're not leaving in 1996 anymore...

Stop avoiding the issue, you filthy troll. You should be banned scum.

Personal attack and abusive language, again. Can someone pm me how to report someone to an admin?

Simply look at hayliks, devante, kyuktooki post in this very Thread. I was trying to contribute to the post. Did you even read it? Do you follow the conversation or you are in your own bubble ??

The intent of my quote about Gracie making that stupid statement? Nothing more that make him look stupid saying stupid things and make people realize that we are not in 1996 anymore and you CANT win in mma only with Bjj and this fight just make my point. The better grappler(decorated bjj black belt) got subbed by a blue belt, in a MMA fight.

I think my comments got along with the thread.

You are trolling with your personal attack.

 

[TacWar]

didn't marcelo garcia eat a knee that opened a cut and thats why it was stopped. So really he didn't "eat punch" nor did he get "ko'd by a journeyman judoka" You sir can't even get the facts right on the fight you want to use as evidence.

And trolling is coming into a thread/ creating a thread to instigate a fight, (oversimplified but to the point) and the typical response to trolls is to flame the hell out of them. So really Deloitte is just following the customs of the board when dealing with trolls.

I haven't seen the fight in question in its entirety yet so I will have to watch it before making any arguments for now.

but Glor, don't try and bring something into evidence to substantiate your claims unless you are going to use the actual facts of the evidence and not something made up to fit your perspective...its just plain ignorant.

 

[codemonkey76]

not sayin the triangle isn't effective or that burns doesn't know his stuff; just saying that WASN'T supposed to happen, yeah anything can happen. We all know that gonzaga shouldn't have caught cro cop w/the high kick, even though i saw that coming.

just odd how it wasn't really mentioned considered the disparity not just in ground skills, but actual mma experience; not saying carneiro can't be beat, but given the exp/level of training and overall groundskill, that shouldn't have happened.

it could happen but noone would have called it

exactly i would be like picking tito to triangle machida...
i was going WTF!!!! when that nearly happened.