This Effectively Ends Jones' Claims to GOATness

[krelianx]

Jones 2, 4, 5.

A close fight is not a robbery, grow up.

I think Jones, at his best, would beat anyone. This was a robbery.

 

[krelianx]

How so? Out of those 3 only 1 was close (in no way a "robbery" since it comes down to your view of 1 close rd).

If I'm not mistaken every other GOAT candidate also had to overcome adversity at some point in their careers, (Silva and GSP actually losing as opposed to winning 1 debatable decision after nearly a decade of dominance), so I don't see how you've arrived at this conclusion I'm afraid.

Fedor didn't suddenly lose either, the writing was on the wall as early as Arlovski that he was slowing down and losing a step a few years before the eventual Werdum loss, Jon is closing in on the same point in his career Fedor was at and it's starting to take it's toll (especially with his lifestyle).

It's only a matter of time before he loses since father time and wear and tear from a decade spent at the very top of your sport (in unprecedentedly dominant fashion) combined with a less then ideal lifestyle catch up too you. There is and will only ever be one man who is seemingly immune to this but Jon, unfortunately for him, is not Floyd Mayweather and his time is coming within the next 3 years.

Plus doesn't he have a free pass to juice from the USADA or some shit like that or is that only the narrative when he's completely dominant? Lol.

I mentioned it explicitly. A big question with the PED accusations was: would Jones be as dominant as he was before once he returned, assuming he popped clean. The answer to that question is simply no, he has had his worst performances since he got back. 4/5 fights he didn't piss hot under enhanced testing were his worst performances: OSP, Smith, Santos, and Reyes. Two of them split decisions. If there is a clear gap in performance before and after enhanced testing, and before and after pissing hot, you have good grounds to validate suspicion.

 

[krelianx]

Santos and Reyes were touted as easy fights by people that don't understand fighting.

I agree, and I picked Santos. But that doesn't mean Jones is performing at the same level he was before, or that this was a good decision. And the fact of the matter is, when 4/5 of your clean performances under enhanced testing have been your worse, you cannot overlook that statistic.

 

[Oooxente]

He lost ANY claim to GOATness 3 failed tests ago.

 

[Tuaminator]

Well... if this ends his claim of being the goat.. then who is?
Anderson Silva, most spectacular.. but lost loads...

Fedor? Great run but also lost.

GS0? he had a couple of losses which he avengered, but the Hendricks fight was his reyers fight.

 

[krelianx]

GSP fans are upset that Jones passed the record for the most championship wins.

Just because you are twelve and like to look up to fighters like idols or something doesn't mean people can't be objective.

I thought GSP lost to Hendricks. And I think Jones lost to Reyes, clearly. As does the great majority of the media, by more than a 2:1 margin:

 

[Khaiser]

The history of abusing performance enhancing drugs removed any claim to GOATness long ago.

 

[boss429]

I mentioned it explicitly. A big question with the PED accusations was: would Jones be as dominant as he was before once he returned, assuming he popped clean. The answer to that question is simply no, he has had his worst performances since he got back. 4/5 fights he didn't piss hot under enhanced testing were his worst performances: OSP, Smith, Santos, and Reyes. Two of them split decisions. If there is a clear gap in performance before and after enhanced testing, and before and after pissing hot, you have good grounds to validate suspicion.

Fair enough except you intentionally left out his destruction of the man that had been his toughest opponent to date (at the time) in the rematch (Gus) that also took place in that time and Smith and OSP (OSP being before DC 2) where completely 1 sided dominant decisions so how where they any different from say Rashad?

Plus right up until he had a couple tough fights everyone was claiming he had a free pass to juice and was being protected by the UFC and USADA, remember the whole "pulsing" thing... What happened to that narrative?

 

[CPH]

He just broke the record for championship wins dumbass

* via awful decision

 

[krelianx]

The history of abusing performance enhancing drugs removed any claim to GOATness long ago.

I think he had a chance to prove that he could perform as well as he did while coming clean. He hasn't, however. His clean performances under enhanced testing have been unarguably his worst, 4/5. And unless one thinks OSP, Santos, Reyes, and Smith are his hardest competition ever, which flies in the face of odds, then something is clearly up.

 

[Brit_Brawler]

I didnt see jones winning that at all. He hardly won a round aside from the 5th. Probably the 4th at a push.

 

[milenss]

It's not really the first time he has been given fights.
Gus 1, Maretta, now this...
I don't even remember all the fights that he lost and was given the W.

 

[Squarechoke]

Jones is one of the biggest cheaters in the sport, and yet he still keeps losing more rounds than people in running for GOAT.

 

[krelianx]

Fair enough except you intentionally left out his destruction of the man that had been his toughest opponent to date (at the time) in the rematch (Gus) that also took place in that time and Smith and OSP (OSP being before DC 2) where completely 1 sided dominant decisions so how where they any different from say Rashad?

Plus right up until he had a couple tough fights everyone was claiming he had a free pass to juice and was being protected by the UFC and USADA, remember the whole "pulsing" thing... What happened to that narrative?

No, I explicitly said 4/5 performances under enhanced testing. If I had left it out I would have said "every". Which would not be true. This is a statistics game, and when 2/4 of your performances could have realistically gone the other way, when you used to be dominant without question, something is up. It is no different than when GSP won against Hendricks. There is an over 2:1 ratio agreement that tonight's decision was a bad one.

 

[Brit_Brawler]

The reality is that these new challengers are better fighters, they just dont carry the name of some of the old legends

 

[krelianx]

how can someone as roided as jones be considered goat. in mainstream sports if you're caught your done. mma is different and performance enhancement by jones is accepted.

Again, I think he had a chance to prove than he could perform as well as he did before pissing hot, under enhanced testing. I actually predicted he would. But he didn't. His performances under enhanced testing, 4/5 of them, have been unarguably the worst of his career, including 2 split decisions, with 1 split decision which there is an over 2:1 ratio agreement was a bad one:

 

[krelianx]

The reality is that these new challengers are better fighters, they just dont carry the name of some of the old legends

I agree, partially: I think Santos is underrated, but Bader would have beat Smith even back then. That is disputable, and no point arguing over that. But there is a very clear gap between Jones before pissing hot and now. His assertiveness with the wrestling, for instance, is unquestionable.

 

[boss429]

No, I explicitly said 4/5 performances under enhanced testing. If I had left it out I would have said "every". Which would not be true. This is a statistics game, and when 2/4 of your performances could have realistically gone the other way, when you used to be dominant without question, something is up. It is no different than when GSP won against Hendricks. There is an over 2:1 ratio agreement that tonight's decision was a bad one.

I agree tonights decision could have gone either way (Santos however was statistically a clear win if emotions are left out of it) But of the other 3 candidates (2 of which are #1&2 on my all time favorite list AS and Fedor) only one has competed regularly under these same standards and has failed a few tests himself so that has to be taken into consideration no?

 

[HardasNAILZ]

This fight was a robbery, purely and simply.

There is no way one can with a straight face give any of he first three to Jones without indulging in blind favoritism. Jones' last three performances since returning (3/4) have been the worst of his career. Four out of five where he didn't piss hot have been his worst, counting the OSP fight. This only reinforces that his dominance was aided by external factors. He just hasn't looked the same since returning, and not because competition suddenly got better: Smith, Santos and Reyes were touted as some of the easiest fights in theory Jones should have had.

This is not some diatribe, but when there is a 2:1 media score ratio despite the fact Jones was a 3/4:1 favorite, you have a clear indicator.

Keep crying BUDDY.

 

[CasualBot]

Fedor would've walked through him if the primes aligned

 

[krelianx]

I agree tonights decision could have gone either way (Santos however was statistically a clear win if emotions are left out of it) But of the other 3 candidates (2 of which are #1&2 on my all time favorite list AS and Fedor) only one has competed regularly under these same standards and has failed a few tests himself so that has to be taken into consideration no?

Agreed, with the exception of GSP and Demetrius. Fedor didn't compete under enhanced testing, so it's a question mark, but the other two have proven themselves beyond doubt, imo.