Elections There's one issue that Democrats seem to agree on: Paying teachers more

Good. Education is crucial. Teachers should be compensated much more handsomely in order to attract better candidates.

We could easily afford it if we didnt have such a bloated military budget.

Public schools are moron factories, churning out a homogenous mass of morons. Anyone who doesnt support increasing funding for education , should never complain about the miserable condition of "kids these days"..
 
The dangerous arguement is assuming payinh teachers more will just automatically produce better teachers.
 
Crocop42 said:
The dangerous arguement is assuming payinh teachers more will just automatically produce better teachers.
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Sure. You still gotta fire the bad ones. I bet many pay increases could come from bloated administration budgets.
 
I remember not long ago where i live teaching was going the same way nursing, physical therapy and occupational therapy is going right now. There's mass amounts of qualified individuals with limited opportunity.
In a sense people in these fields are dictating their salaries. When people continue to go into the fields, and then accept the jobs at low pay it keeps the need to incentivize the career.

For instance, i work in what some call the worst jail facility in the country. We get paid a lot of money, much more than other departments. It's the need to pay people a lot of money to walk into hell. Without that, nobody would do this job.
 
Crocop42 said:
The dangerous arguement is assuming payinh teachers more will just automatically produce better teachers.
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Isn't that pretty much the argument Murkans use to justify paying doctors millions of dollars? If they didn't pay that much they would all be bums?
 
Ice That Jaw said:
Both of my parents were High Schools teachers and made 80k at the end of their careers in 2005ish. They both had M.S. degrees and taught 15min southeast of DC.

I know states like NY have better pay but I imagine the average teacher in an average state ain't making shit.
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How long was that career?
 
 
Crocop42 said:
The dangerous arguement is assuming payinh teachers more will just automatically produce better teachers.
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No, the dangerous argument is you being dumb enough to think that's what anyone is saying.

It's not a magic switch, no one is saying it is. But it's an extremely well documented fact that people that feel they are well compensated perform better at their jobs. Not unique to teaching in anyway just a basic human response to feeling as if your time and effort is being properly compensated.

In a larger sense we see specifically in states that don't pay well that they have a problematic shortage of qualified teachers because the qualfied teachers either leave that state or leave the profession all together.

This isn't a complicated concept. If you don't pay teachers well, people that would be good teachers are more likely to not go in to teaching. Because they recognize that they can do something else that pays better.
 
Seano said:
I'd rather they earn it. I'm OK with it if we make it merit based.
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Education and business do not work on the same model.

One is about transaction and action, the other is about study and understanding. One is based on profit and efficiency, one is based on discovery and knowledge.

They can not and should not be based on "merit," because the means and ends are different, as well, are the challenges.
 
Crocop42 said:
The dangerous arguement is assuming payinh teachers more will just automatically produce better teachers.
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I would assume, an educated guess if you will, it would draw a higher degree of talent into education.

The results may take something the voters or leaders are not looking for, however, that is time to see the impact.

That's fine though, America is kind of resigned to two different ways of life now that are incompatible, the results I would assume will be stupid.

No offense. Most of us value social media and puerile t.v. lessons for rules on living, life can only mimic the choices.
 
FWIW, my gf is an elementary school teacher at a public school.

The idea that they are over compensated is ridiculous. Teaching is an incredibly stressful career. The retention rate reflects it. About half of them change careers after 5 years.
 
Cubo de Sangre said:
I hear Hawaii has a major shortage and stringent requirements. Can confirm the high cost of living. Sounds like an increase in the pay-scale is in order.
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Part of the problem with Hawaii is that the state relies so much on private education to meet the shortcomings of the public school system. Something like 20% of kids in the state go to private schools, which certainly affects the cost of living.
 
Higus said:
FWIW, my gf is an elementary school teacher at a public school.

The idea that they are over compensated is ridiculous. Teaching is an incredibly stressful career. The retention rate reflects it. About half of them change careers after 5 years.
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Sure bro. I bet your gf makes 6 figures easily. That's pretty damn good for a Marxist indoctrinator.
 
Higus said:
Part of the problem with Hawaii is that the state relies so much on private education to meet the shortcomings of the public school system. Something like 20% of kids in the state go to private schools, which certainly affects the cost of living.
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Just heard on the radio it was about 17% in private schools. 2% home-schooled. How does that affect cost of living? You mean for those parents? At least at the private school @Tufts works at, lots of the local kids are subsidized by the foreign students. Kinda like in-state vs. out-of-state tuition for college.
 
Cubo de Sangre said:
Just heard on the radio it was about 17% in private schools. 2% home-schooled. How does that affect cost of living? You mean for those parents? At least at the private school @Tufts works at, lots of the local kids are subsidized by the foreign students. Kinda like in-state vs. out-of-state tuition for college.
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Yes, for the parents. 17% is not an insignificant number. The school might have a big alumni network or endowment program to subsidize tuition costs, but they're likely pretty competitive.
I got the sense that it was a brain drain on a lot of schools out there. If your parents had the means and you lived in a district with subpar schools, they would send you to private school. The school in that district would suffer on test scores, which would mean less funding, and the cycle would repeat.
 
Sohei said:
Sure bro. I bet your gf makes 6 figures easily. That's pretty damn good for a Marxist indoctrinator.
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Re: Marxism, I can see how someone with an agenda could try to frame it that way. Her school district is very diverse, and there is an effort to instill a sense of community and respect for one another there. Someone from outside might see a teacher reading a story with a female Muslim protagonist as some sort of cultural brainwashing program, but it would be an incredibly close-minded point of view. Books like that demystify other cultures and help immigrant kids integrate with a more accepting larger society.
 
Higus said:
Yes, for the parents. 17% is not an insignificant number. The school might have a big alumni network or endowment program to subsidize tuition costs, but they're likely pretty competitive.
I got the sense that it was a brain drain on a lot of schools out there. If your parents had the means and you lived in a district with subpar schools, they would send you to private school. The school in that district would suffer on test scores, which would mean less funding, and the cycle would repeat.
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I don't think the schools are underfunded so much as kids just don't give a shit. They'd rather go to the beach and smoke weed than pursue a career.

I believe most of the private-school teachers are being imported, not drained out of the public system. And fwiw, this doesn't seem woefully inadequate.

http://www.hawaiipublicschools.org/ConnectWithUs/Organization/Budget/Pages/home.aspx

How does Hawaii’s educational spending compare nationally?
The funding of public schools is typically expressed “per pupil” — how much school districts are taking in and spending divided by the number of students served. It is helpful to look at Hawaii's spending relative to other states and the District of Columbia. Here are some key findings of the U.S. Census Bureau’s annual survey reflecting Fiscal Year 2016 data, released May 2018 (figures pulled from Summary Tables 11 and 12):

  • FY 2016 PER-PUPIL SPENDING: $13,748. The national average is $11,762.
REVENUES — Hawaii is:
  • 12th in the nation for per-pupil revenue. Hawaii has one of the highest costs of living in the country, yet its school system receives less than 11 other states.
  • 25th in the nation for revenue per $1,000 of personal income in the state. Hawaii's public schools are given $43.52 for every $1,000 of income earned in the state. Twenty-four other states spend a larger fraction of personal income on public schools. The U.S. average is $43.15. The highest is Wyoming at $61.86.
SPENDING — Hawaii is:
  • 15th highest in the nation for per-pupil spending. We are:
    • 16th in the nation for spending on instruction at $8,066 per pupil (U.S. average is $7,160)
    • 48th in the nation for spending on general administration at $97 per pupil (U.S. average is $226)
    • 8th in the nation for spending on school administration at $924 (U.S. average is $651)
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I've met quite a few teachers, and most of them are insufferable retards.

No thanks, you shouldn't earn more than a cop.
 
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