There's a reason locker room bonuses aren't disclosed; they aren't real.

[Squarechoke]

I'll repeat this for you as well, in the spirit of proper sampling: he gave 6 examples, now you go add up the amount of fighters the UFC has had over how many years its employed the backroom bonus practise. Compare those numbers...6 is not a proper sample size to warrant anything other then propping up his opinion.

In fact even if it was 30 it would still be a substandard sample size.

That's wrong. The actual statement that those examples were a counter-argument to were that the bonuses either don't exist, or they are so small they are irrelevant. These examples are enough to disprove both claims.

 

[oswald1]

I'll repeat this for you as well, in the spirit of proper sampling: he gave 6 examples, now you go add up the amount of fighters the UFC has had over how many years its employed the backroom bonus practise. Compare those numbers...6 is not a proper sample size to warrant anything other then propping up his opinion.

In fact even if it was 30 it would still be a substandard sample size.

Sample size would matter more if the examples were champions and longtime vets. That is obviously not the case here

 

[Sirwastealot]

This is one of those cases where you have two extremes of an argument and both are wrong.

One extreme says locker room bonuses are made up or completely insignificant. This isn't true because several fighters, both in and outside the UFC, have come out in favor of how significant their bonuses are.

The other extreme says fighter pay is not a problem because you have bonuses, while knowing NOTHING about just how much those bonuses are. So if a fighter is getting 16k for a fight, they'l argue "You really think they just got 16k? They all get a bonus!"
Bonuses are variable, for all we know that guy got 5-10k on top of his 16k. An unknown bonus is not a good excuse to pay ridiculously low salaries.

So for me it's somewhere in between. It seems UFC is usually quite generous with their bonuses, but they still need to make the discloses salaries somewhat reasonable.

 

[Timetravel_0]

I imagine they give out these bonuses because they dont want the public knowing exactly how much the fighters are paid. Also, they can use these "bonuses" as incentives and punishments. If you do really shitty like Miles Jury in his last fight, you probably dont get a bonus. If you show up to fight, win or lose, you get a bonus.

 

[Irenaeus]

I'm sure they exist, but I don't really think handouts are relevant when discussing actual pay. And since it's undisclosed, it makes even less sense to use as an argument in those discussions.

Paying undisclosed unagreed-upon amounts of money to fighters instead of proper payments is a way to obfuscate and muddle actual negotiations. It's part of a fairly patronistic power structure.

I don't support it, nor do I care for it, but my opinion matters very litte.

 

[Non]

This is one of those cases where you have two extremes of an argument and both are wrong.

One extreme says locker room bonuses are made up or completely insignificant. This isn't true because several fighters, both in and outside the UFC, have come out in favor of how significant their bonuses are.

The other extreme says fighter pay is not a problem because you have bonuses, while knowing NOTHING about just how much those bonuses are. So if a fighter is getting 16k for a fight, they'l argue "You really think they just got 16k? They all get a bonus!"
Bonuses are variable, for all we know that guy got 5-10k on top of his 16k. An unknown bonus is not a good excuse to pay ridiculously low salaries.

So for me it's somewhere in between. It seems UFC is usually quite generous with their bonuses, but they still need to make the discloses salaries somewhat reasonable.

I don't think you're wrong but can you explain to me why the UFC should be required to up their pay when no other MMA organization pays as well, even down to the bottom of the barrel guys?

Do preliminary fighters in the UFC make little money? Yes. So do the ones in Bellator and One FC and WSoF. Why is it solely the UFC's responsibility to increase pay?

Companies don't pay their base employees more based on their profits or how well off the owners are. One need only look at Wal-Mart for this.

The UFC is a monopoly? They were investigated by the IRS and the investigation showed they hadn't broken any antitrust laws. Moreover their greatest competitor in Bellator is owned by Viacom, a company much better off than Zuffa.

Pay in MMA sucks in general but the UFC upping their wages is only going to weaken their competitors further. If anybody needs to be increasing their pay it's Bellator/Viacom. We've already seen how this works with Gilbert Melendez.

Melendez didn't like what he was getting paid and when his contract was up he told the UFC he wanted a raise. The UFC said no. Gil looked at his options and opened up negotiations with Bellator and started a bidding war between the two. Gil is now a happy man fighting in the UFC. The same situation happened with Alvarez except he was in Bellator. Now while these guys have the benefit of being well known top tier fighters, it's still a fair example of how a fighter pay works.

If the UFC decides it's just going to increase its pay for everybody out of the goodness of their hearts, while nice, all its done is increased the gap between them and what every other MMA org can or will pay for fighters. Why would any athlete want to fight for another organization when the UFC is literally paying them double the salary for no reason?

I would like to see fighters get paid better and not be strongarmed by Zuffa execs but fighter pay is an MMA issue, not just a UFC one. The answer to that problem isn't as simple as telling Dana to stop importing snow and tipping $1000 and paying the fighters more.

 

[TehFlame]

Korean Zombie said in an interview that he never got a locker room bonus. If anyone deserves locker room bonus, it's him.... for like every single fight he had LOL

 

[Macalpinerules]

No, because of taxes

Do you actually think a multi billion dollar company would initiate a bonus system with the intent of deceiving the IRS or aiding their employees in the deception of the IRS?

 

[mudoxiii]

Wow...6 examples out of hundreds and hundreds of fighters over many years. Quite the sample size.

If Sean McCorkle and George Roop are getting lucrative locker room bonuses, all of the fighters are.

 

[Loiosh]

This is one of those cases where you have two extremes of an argument and both are wrong.

One extreme says locker room bonuses are made up or completely insignificant. This isn't true because several fighters, both in and outside the UFC, have come out in favor of how significant their bonuses are.

The other extreme says fighter pay is not a problem because you have bonuses, while knowing NOTHING about just how much those bonuses are. So if a fighter is getting 16k for a fight, they'l argue "You really think they just got 16k? They all get a bonus!"
Bonuses are variable, for all we know that guy got 5-10k on top of his 16k. An unknown bonus is not a good excuse to pay ridiculously low salaries.

So for me it's somewhere in between. It seems UFC is usually quite generous with their bonuses, but they still need to make the discloses salaries somewhat reasonable.

Extremes of an argument are almost always incorrect.

In this case, I would offer that they are irrelevant.

The notion that UFC salaries are insufficient is an entirely fan-based fantasy. We have extremely limited information regarding what they are paid, but what we know for certain is that virtually every fighter wants to fight for the UFC, who is consistently paying more than any other organization in the history of MMA. We know they are paying the most based on the purses they are required to submit, which are the very lowest amounts those fighters could be paid.

The pay for entry level fighters has quadrupled in less than a decade, and there is absolutely no reason to think it won't keep increasing.

 

[Loiosh]

Do you actually think a multi billion dollar company would initiate a bonus system with the intent of deceiving the IRS or aiding their employees in the deception of the IRS?

He's kidding.

Many people say it's tax related when that obviously could not be the case.

 

[Terry Noonan]

This topic is so boring.

 

[psyops]

The bonuses are real as others have mentioned, fighters have talked about it before.

 

[capnlarge]

No, because of taxes

They are definitely hiding these amounts from the NSAC and the general public but only The Diaz brothers and Chris Leben are hiding them from the IRS.

 

[High Altitude]

You guys are so funny. The ufc makes 10s of millions during a big event and you think 25k here and there is significant.

 

[Sirwastealot]

I don't think you're wrong but can you explain to me why the UFC should be required to up their pay when no other MMA organization pays as well, even down to the bottom of the barrel guys?

Do preliminary fighters in the UFC make little money? Yes. So do the ones in Bellator and One FC and WSoF. Why is it solely the UFC's responsibility to increase pay?

Companies don't pay their base employees more based on their profits or how well off the owners are. One need only look at Wal-Mart for this.

The UFC is a monopoly? They were investigated by the IRS and the investigation showed they hadn't broken any antitrust laws. Moreover their greatest competitor in Bellator is owned by Viacom, a company much better off than Zuffa.

Pay in MMA sucks in general but the UFC upping their wages is only going to weaken their competitors further. If anybody needs to be increasing their pay it's Bellator/Viacom. We've already seen how this works with Gilbert Melendez.

Melendez didn't like what he was getting paid and when his contract was up he told the UFC he wanted a raise. The UFC said no. Gil looked at his options and opened up negotiations with Bellator and started a bidding war between the two. Gil is now a happy man fighting in the UFC. The same situation happened with Alvarez except he was in Bellator. Now while these guys have the benefit of being well known top tier fighters, it's still a fair example of how a fighter pay works.

If the UFC decides it's just going to increase its pay for everybody out of the goodness of their hearts, while nice, all its done is increased the gap between them and what every other MMA org can or will pay for fighters. Why would any athlete want to fight for another organization when the UFC is literally paying them double the salary for no reason?

I would like to see fighters get paid better and not be strongarmed by Zuffa execs but fighter pay is an MMA issue, not just a UFC one. The answer to that problem isn't as simple as telling Dana to stop importing snow and tipping $1000 and paying the fighters more.

I don't think the UFC should be required to pay any more than they do now, I would just like to see that happen. They aren't even required to pay generous locker room bonuses, but it's still good when you hear about those.

I'm not looking at it from a business perspective. I'm looking at it from the perspective of the fighter. Yes, they won't make any more fighting in other orgs (with some possible exception) and they agree to sign whatever contract they have. But I watch the sport for the fighters, I have some experience that tells me how difficult this life can be, and it seems to me that if UFC is making enough profits they should give their fighters a bigger piece of the pie.

I'm not talking about entry level guys either, we've seen enough examples of name fighters getting ridiculously low salaries.

From a business perspective, I know one strategy is to give the bare minimum that you can get away with. Maybe walmart does that too, but I'm not a fan of any walmart employees. If I was I'd probably speak against that too. This is my favorite sport. I'd like to see the fighters treated well within reason.

 

[cooks1]

No, because of taxes

Are you daft? Fighters still have to pay taxes on their locker room bonuses. Even if they are paid in frequent flier miles.

 

[straight6]

Are you daft? Fighters still have to pay taxes on their locker room bonuses. Even if they are paid in frequent flier miles.

only if they report them as income. I don't think everyone does. we all know how little most of these guys are making, its safe to assume many will not report it.

UFC's system of "backroom" bonus is so flawed in ways more than one.

 

[tenniswhiz]

No, because of taxes

No way.
They would not risk f'ing with the IRS like that.

Discretionary bonuses have to be reported by both employer and employee.
They just don't have to be reported to the public.

 

[straight6]

No way.
They would not risk f'ing with the IRS like that.

Discretionary bonuses have to be reported by both employer and employee.
They just don't have to be reported to the public.

Yes, discretionary bonuses have to be reported by both. However, in this case, DW, fighters and everyone refer to as "backroom bonus" or "locker room bonus".. which sounds very much like "under table" pay. There are all kinds of under table pay in different business and industries that do that..

ALSO, UFC fighters are "independent" contractors NOT employees, so to report that "backroom" income or not, its all purely on the fighters...in this structure, UFC protects itself wisely, and will have no responsibilities whatsoever on this issue.